Khadija Hassan July 13, 2007
#56 Posted by MantoLives on July 13, 2007 9:52:28 pm
``Mr. President, are you not aware how many whore houses operate in the capital? Are you not aware that in every sector of Islamabad alcohol is readily available? Has none of your 40 advisors as yet brought this to your attention?``
And these are the issues that merit attention of the government... not poverty, illiteracy etc... Here is essentially the long and short of the matter...
#68 Posted by khatam-shud on July 14, 2007 3:48:20 am
Re: # 57
count again. 100 in the first 3 rows alone.
apparently a lot of you have missed the point i made about the whore houses. let me repeat myself:
``Mr. President, are you not aware how many whore houses operate in the capital? Are you not aware that in every sector of Islamabad alcohol is readily available? Has none of your 40 advisors as yet brought this to your attention? Has no one realized that what these extremist fanatics have been raging about actually contains a grain of truth amidst all their madness and lack of reason? It is a grain of truth that may sadly now be manipulated to subvert the more critical truth of their outraging militancy.``
and once again, just to be sure:
``It is a grain of truth that may sadly now be manipulated to subvert the more critical truth of their outraging militancy.``
I was appalled when a lot of educated people, unaware of the history of this crisis, unaware of the threats the burqa brigades made against citizens of Islamabad, actually said ``so what? all they wanted was to wipe out alcohol and prostitution!``. This is a reaction to that.
I wish to clarify one other thing IN GENERAL:
YES, I UNDERSTAND THE OPERATION BECAME ESSENTIAL. THAT IS NOT THE POINT. The point is that when you make a BAD DECISION IN THE PAST AND PAY FOR IT IN THE FUTURE, DO NOT COWER BEHIND STATEMENTS OF HELPLESSNESS.
count again. 100 in the first 3 rows alone.
apparently a lot of you have missed the point i made about the whore houses. let me repeat myself:
``Mr. President, are you not aware how many whore houses operate in the capital? Are you not aware that in every sector of Islamabad alcohol is readily available? Has none of your 40 advisors as yet brought this to your attention? Has no one realized that what these extremist fanatics have been raging about actually contains a grain of truth amidst all their madness and lack of reason? It is a grain of truth that may sadly now be manipulated to subvert the more critical truth of their outraging militancy.``
and once again, just to be sure:
``It is a grain of truth that may sadly now be manipulated to subvert the more critical truth of their outraging militancy.``
I was appalled when a lot of educated people, unaware of the history of this crisis, unaware of the threats the burqa brigades made against citizens of Islamabad, actually said ``so what? all they wanted was to wipe out alcohol and prostitution!``. This is a reaction to that.
I wish to clarify one other thing IN GENERAL:
YES, I UNDERSTAND THE OPERATION BECAME ESSENTIAL. THAT IS NOT THE POINT. The point is that when you make a BAD DECISION IN THE PAST AND PAY FOR IT IN THE FUTURE, DO NOT COWER BEHIND STATEMENTS OF HELPLESSNESS.
#57 Posted by HP on July 13, 2007 11:25:19 pm
I essentially agree with yasser here!
What is the big deal about alcohol being available in Islamabad and why should that worry the federal government. It is a local issue and the local admin should deal with it.
These two mullahs were demanding that the government should for all intents and purposes change the constitution and enforce sharia instead of the laws that manage the country now. They were basically asking to change the whole court system-supreme court, high court and other law enforcement. And what they were offering in lieu of that? The Jungle law where a few, based on how they interpret the sharia Laws, control the law enforcement. The way they implemented the Sharia showed how much respect they had for Chaddar and Chardiwari.
Is it not true that that both mullah have claimed that they have suicide bombers ready to take on the government? Is it not true that they had claimed that have the arms to defend themselves. Is it not true that 10 Law enforcers died and many more injured because the mullah supporters in the Lal Mosque were armed and used those arms against the army?
I still think that army should have handled the situation differently or perhaps should have taken care of it when the whole thing started. But for the life of me, I don`t understand this groundswell of sympathy for these gangsters who controlled a Mosque and madrassah and took over a library by force.
The thing that we need to understand is that like the army, the Pakistani mullah whether of the Jamaat Islami aka Al qaeeda kind or the MMA kind, is not looking to promote their philosophy via the peaceful means or the democratic means. For all practical purposes like the army in Pakistan, the mullahs are gangsters. The Gangster mentality makes them indulge in what Sultan Rahi made famous: the BarRak. That barRak makes them do things way beyond their capabilities.
The Lal Mosque fiasco has shown one thing clearly that Pakistani don’t want Sharia in Pakistan. Pakistanis don’t want Islamic laws in Pakistan, Pakistanis don’t want these stupid mullahs running the country, and Pakistani don’t want anything to do with these Burka wearing gangsters.
I have looked at all the pictures and I can clearly see that the public just refused to listen to the MMA protest. The number of people showing in protests clearly showed which way Pakistani are headed and it surely is NOT The mullah way.
#58 Posted by HP on July 14, 2007 12:02:59 am
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#59 Posted by zeemax on July 14, 2007 12:48:16 am
#57 by HP
These two mullahs were demanding that the government should for all intents and purposes change the constitution enforce sharia ...
This is a totally misinformed comment. Sharia is already envisaged in the constitution. Lal Masjid was merely agitating for its `implementation`.
These two mullahs were demanding that the government should for all intents and purposes change the constitution enforce sharia ...
This is a totally misinformed comment. Sharia is already envisaged in the constitution. Lal Masjid was merely agitating for its `implementation`.
#73 Posted by khatam-shud on July 14, 2007 4:34:15 am
Re: # 60
``Khadija, Pathetic is the only word to describe your above quote. Will you say that the money spent on training the jihadis and sending them to kashmir also could be spent on providing drinking water.``
YES
``It is sad to see all of you so worried about lal masjid when about 90 dead bodies are collected every day by Edhi foundation in karachi, those killed in the shia sunny battles. ``
Why do you assume that if one problem is the point of focus at a particular point in time, that another does not matter?
``To talk about human rights of the jihadis, is to talk about the animal rights of rats spreading plague.``
Im not talking about the human rights of the ``jihadis.`` (what these ``jihadis`` did btw was not even close to the spirit of real jihad). Im talking about a government killing its own people - of running an operation fully mindful of its own culpability, and then justifying it as a necessary evil. Of killing innocent people in a political crossfire. yes, a POLITICAL crossfire. Not a religious one.
``Your article is simply pathetic.``
Thank you for your frank opinion. You are entitled to it.
Sincerely,
Khadija
``Khadija, Pathetic is the only word to describe your above quote. Will you say that the money spent on training the jihadis and sending them to kashmir also could be spent on providing drinking water.``
YES
``It is sad to see all of you so worried about lal masjid when about 90 dead bodies are collected every day by Edhi foundation in karachi, those killed in the shia sunny battles. ``
Why do you assume that if one problem is the point of focus at a particular point in time, that another does not matter?
``To talk about human rights of the jihadis, is to talk about the animal rights of rats spreading plague.``
Im not talking about the human rights of the ``jihadis.`` (what these ``jihadis`` did btw was not even close to the spirit of real jihad). Im talking about a government killing its own people - of running an operation fully mindful of its own culpability, and then justifying it as a necessary evil. Of killing innocent people in a political crossfire. yes, a POLITICAL crossfire. Not a religious one.
``Your article is simply pathetic.``
Thank you for your frank opinion. You are entitled to it.
Sincerely,
Khadija
#60 Posted by jayp on July 14, 2007 12:56:03 am
``I would have loved to see the money spent on “Operation Silence” used instead to provide clean water, medicines and medical aid to the flood victims. ``
Khadija, Pathetic is the only word to describe your above quote. Will you say that the money spent on training the jihadis and sending them to kashmir also could be spent on providing drinking water.
It is sad to see all of you so worried about lal masjid when about 90 dead bodies are collected every day by Edhi foundation in karachi, those killed in the shia sunny battles.
To talk about human rights of the jihadis, is to talk about the animal rights of rats spreading plague.
Your article is simply pathetic.
Khadija, Pathetic is the only word to describe your above quote. Will you say that the money spent on training the jihadis and sending them to kashmir also could be spent on providing drinking water.
It is sad to see all of you so worried about lal masjid when about 90 dead bodies are collected every day by Edhi foundation in karachi, those killed in the shia sunny battles.
To talk about human rights of the jihadis, is to talk about the animal rights of rats spreading plague.
Your article is simply pathetic.
#74 Posted by khatam-shud on July 14, 2007 4:40:21 am
Re: # 61
``Living in pakistan, with all of the good of pakistan in mind, did you write an open letter when Mukhtan Mai was raped and no one was arrested for it.``
As a matter of fact I wrote an op-ed piece that was published in a weekly.
``May be it the cries of the dying jihadis, allahu akbar that woke you up from teh rip van winklian sleep.``
Now that you are awake, look around, look at the 2000 odd madrasas teaching hatred.
Can you write an open letter to Mullah Asghar, the man released after the hijacking of the indian aircraft to stop his hate campaign.``
Why are you so full of hate?
``You should have been honest to yourself and asked for a high paying job from mushy, that you are educated in the US, or did you come back in a chartered flight payed for by the pak govt.``
I was educated in Pakistan. A few years abroad cannot change the essence of my education.
``Living in pakistan, with all of the good of pakistan in mind, did you write an open letter when Mukhtan Mai was raped and no one was arrested for it.``
As a matter of fact I wrote an op-ed piece that was published in a weekly.
``May be it the cries of the dying jihadis, allahu akbar that woke you up from teh rip van winklian sleep.``
Now that you are awake, look around, look at the 2000 odd madrasas teaching hatred.
Can you write an open letter to Mullah Asghar, the man released after the hijacking of the indian aircraft to stop his hate campaign.``
Why are you so full of hate?
``You should have been honest to yourself and asked for a high paying job from mushy, that you are educated in the US, or did you come back in a chartered flight payed for by the pak govt.``
I was educated in Pakistan. A few years abroad cannot change the essence of my education.
#61 Posted by jayp on July 14, 2007 1:15:14 am
Khadija,
Living in pakistan, with all of the good of pakistan in mind, did you write an open letter when Mukhtan Mai was raped and no one was arrested for it.
May be it the cries of the dying jihadis, allahu akbar that woke you up from teh rip van winklian sleep.
Now that you are awake, look around, look at the 2000 odd madrasas teaching hatred.
Can you write an open letter to Mullah Asghar, the man released after the hijacking of the indian aircraft to stop his hate campaign.
You should have been honest to yourself and asked for a high paying job from mushy, that you are educated in the US, or did you come back in a chartered flight payed for by the pak govt.
Living in pakistan, with all of the good of pakistan in mind, did you write an open letter when Mukhtan Mai was raped and no one was arrested for it.
May be it the cries of the dying jihadis, allahu akbar that woke you up from teh rip van winklian sleep.
Now that you are awake, look around, look at the 2000 odd madrasas teaching hatred.
Can you write an open letter to Mullah Asghar, the man released after the hijacking of the indian aircraft to stop his hate campaign.
You should have been honest to yourself and asked for a high paying job from mushy, that you are educated in the US, or did you come back in a chartered flight payed for by the pak govt.
#62 Posted by jayp on July 14, 2007 1:45:06 am
My dear Khadija,
Thank you for your letter and I could not read past the first paragraph. It is sad to see that some one who can write in English has no dual citizenship, no asset abroad.
Even since the madrassa study was equated with university degree, all the positions in the army and in the public service where a universuty degree is required has gone to the madrassa graduates. Now I know that they all are jihadis.
As you know, the pak govt has created a Jinnah Chair of islamic studies ...i dont remember the name of the university...i know it is in the us, all responses I got were from the madrassa graduates.
I know that since the chair is in the US, knowing only urdu could be a disadvantage.
Hence I have not filled the chair, I myself was waiting to go there once I finish my job here, and as you know I have written a book, that too in English.
I liked the writing, and I am offering you the Jinnah Chair.
here after, when you write to me you will not have to repeat the sad story, write at the beginning.
Your own president
Musheraf Mohajir
( I was born in India, that is why I like people who can write in English)
Thank you for your letter and I could not read past the first paragraph. It is sad to see that some one who can write in English has no dual citizenship, no asset abroad.
Even since the madrassa study was equated with university degree, all the positions in the army and in the public service where a universuty degree is required has gone to the madrassa graduates. Now I know that they all are jihadis.
As you know, the pak govt has created a Jinnah Chair of islamic studies ...i dont remember the name of the university...i know it is in the us, all responses I got were from the madrassa graduates.
I know that since the chair is in the US, knowing only urdu could be a disadvantage.
Hence I have not filled the chair, I myself was waiting to go there once I finish my job here, and as you know I have written a book, that too in English.
I liked the writing, and I am offering you the Jinnah Chair.
here after, when you write to me you will not have to repeat the sad story, write at the beginning.
Your own president
Musheraf Mohajir
( I was born in India, that is why I like people who can write in English)
#69 Posted by khatam-shud on July 14, 2007 4:07:28 am
Re: # 64
``if no one files an FIR, no crime has been committed.``
right. i dont have a birth certificate. i must not exist.
``Your appalling lack of knowledge about the laws of pakistan need some explanation.``
I apologize sincerely for my appalling lack of knowledge
I believe the SC demanded an explanation from the government`s lawyers in court about 3 days ago asking under what law the operation was taking place. Apparently there isn`t any actual jurisdiction for the army to be used in these circumstances.
Its time for me to question your logic now: If murder isnt a crime against the state, then what is it?
``if no one files an FIR, no crime has been committed.``
right. i dont have a birth certificate. i must not exist.
``Your appalling lack of knowledge about the laws of pakistan need some explanation.``
I apologize sincerely for my appalling lack of knowledge
I believe the SC demanded an explanation from the government`s lawyers in court about 3 days ago asking under what law the operation was taking place. Apparently there isn`t any actual jurisdiction for the army to be used in these circumstances.
Its time for me to question your logic now: If murder isnt a crime against the state, then what is it?
#64 Posted by jayp on July 14, 2007 2:44:48 am
AN OPEN LETTER TO KHADIJA
In pakistan under the hoodood law, murder is not a crime against the state. The close relatives of the murdered has to make an FIR and has to be registered by the police. You may recall the murder of Samia Sarwar and no one was prosecuted.
In the case of lal masjid the laws are the same. There could be thousand murdered, but if no one files an FIR, no crime has been committed.
Your appalling lack of knowledge about the laws of pakistan need some explanation.
I look forward to your response
jayp
In pakistan under the hoodood law, murder is not a crime against the state. The close relatives of the murdered has to make an FIR and has to be registered by the police. You may recall the murder of Samia Sarwar and no one was prosecuted.
In the case of lal masjid the laws are the same. There could be thousand murdered, but if no one files an FIR, no crime has been committed.
Your appalling lack of knowledge about the laws of pakistan need some explanation.
I look forward to your response
jayp
#65 Posted by malik99 on July 14, 2007 3:20:24 am
HP writes ``The Gangster mentality makes them indulge in what Sultan Rahi made famous: the BarRak. That barRak makes them do things way beyond their capabilities.``
HP sahib, your bleeding heart for the rule of law aside, would u or would you not agree that alcohol and prostitution is against the current laws in pakistan - mullahs or no mullahs?
Since alcohol and prostitution are against the current laws, arent those who engage in alcohol and prostitution just as guilty of taking law in their own hands as those who tried to stop them?
Private citizens who shame government into enacting its own laws should be commended, not bombed. In US, when the government failed to protect borders, citizens took over that responsibility a la Minute Men in Arizona. And they enjoy much admiration. NO one will bomb them for sure.
HP sahib, your bleeding heart for the rule of law aside, would u or would you not agree that alcohol and prostitution is against the current laws in pakistan - mullahs or no mullahs?
Since alcohol and prostitution are against the current laws, arent those who engage in alcohol and prostitution just as guilty of taking law in their own hands as those who tried to stop them?
Private citizens who shame government into enacting its own laws should be commended, not bombed. In US, when the government failed to protect borders, citizens took over that responsibility a la Minute Men in Arizona. And they enjoy much admiration. NO one will bomb them for sure.
#114 Posted by PewResearch on July 14, 2007 9:31:37 am
Re: # 67 HNK
``...I keep hearing this logic of poverty behind religious militancy. How many high profile religious terrorists are poor. ..``
Amen! Here is what others say:
``Of course, not all Muslims are terrorists. But it`s been widely noted that virtually all suicide terrorists today are Muslims. Angry Norwegians aren`t doing this — nor are starving Africans or unemployed Mexicans. Muslims have got to understand that a death cult has taken root in the bosom of their religion, feeding off it like a cancerous tumor.
This cancer is erasing basic norms of civilization. In Iraq, we`ve seen suicide bombers blow up funerals and schools. In England, seven out of the eight people detained in the latest plot are Muslim doctors or medical students. Doctors plotting mass murder? Could that be? If Muslim leaders don`t remove this cancer — and only they can — it will spread, tainting innocent Muslims and poisoning their relations with each other and the world.``
``...I keep hearing this logic of poverty behind religious militancy. How many high profile religious terrorists are poor. ..``
Amen! Here is what others say:
``Of course, not all Muslims are terrorists. But it`s been widely noted that virtually all suicide terrorists today are Muslims. Angry Norwegians aren`t doing this — nor are starving Africans or unemployed Mexicans. Muslims have got to understand that a death cult has taken root in the bosom of their religion, feeding off it like a cancerous tumor.
This cancer is erasing basic norms of civilization. In Iraq, we`ve seen suicide bombers blow up funerals and schools. In England, seven out of the eight people detained in the latest plot are Muslim doctors or medical students. Doctors plotting mass murder? Could that be? If Muslim leaders don`t remove this cancer — and only they can — it will spread, tainting innocent Muslims and poisoning their relations with each other and the world.``
#67 Posted by nazarhayatkhan on July 14, 2007 3:36:48 am
Bulleya # 28
``.......the lal masjid type problems are social and economic in nature........they are not going to be solved through guns......``
I keep hearing this logic of poverty behind religious militancy. How many high profile religious terrorists are poor. Not only that they were not poor, most of them were actually well to do. (eg. USA, UK) Why the poor of Sind or Baluchistan do not become Religious terrorists? Or for that matter, poor of Argentina, Brazil, India or African countries.
Was Ghazi poor?
Unfortunately, in our case some state factors have also come into play - use of religion in our creation, religion being a part of our constitution, religion in our external / internal policies.....and to top it all, most of the policies handled by the dumb faugies or intelligence agencies.
As for the kids or immature youngsters, they can be easily duped, brainwashed and used. This is what the Mullas do - incite youngsters & gain POWER.
When I was a child in Montgomery (now Sahiwal - Why?), on Fridays, I specially went to a mosque where a fiery Mulla delivered forcefull speeches. He was called `Kuhary Shah` or `Axe Shah` - because his Khutbas got you volatile.
Once, a few missionary ladies were distributing some literature - I had been so brainwashed by this crazy nut that I tore the books that they were distributing in front of them - and then as a scared child, just ran away.
This is the state of mind & exploitation of the youngesters of the Lal Masjid.
The Syllabus of the Madressas may look harmless but it is not the Syllabus that matters. It is the fact of keeping those hapless souls prisoner in the compounds & continuously brainwashing them that turns them into dangerous ROBOTs.
regards
NHK
``.......the lal masjid type problems are social and economic in nature........they are not going to be solved through guns......``
I keep hearing this logic of poverty behind religious militancy. How many high profile religious terrorists are poor. Not only that they were not poor, most of them were actually well to do. (eg. USA, UK) Why the poor of Sind or Baluchistan do not become Religious terrorists? Or for that matter, poor of Argentina, Brazil, India or African countries.
Was Ghazi poor?
Unfortunately, in our case some state factors have also come into play - use of religion in our creation, religion being a part of our constitution, religion in our external / internal policies.....and to top it all, most of the policies handled by the dumb faugies or intelligence agencies.
As for the kids or immature youngsters, they can be easily duped, brainwashed and used. This is what the Mullas do - incite youngsters & gain POWER.
When I was a child in Montgomery (now Sahiwal - Why?), on Fridays, I specially went to a mosque where a fiery Mulla delivered forcefull speeches. He was called `Kuhary Shah` or `Axe Shah` - because his Khutbas got you volatile.
Once, a few missionary ladies were distributing some literature - I had been so brainwashed by this crazy nut that I tore the books that they were distributing in front of them - and then as a scared child, just ran away.
This is the state of mind & exploitation of the youngesters of the Lal Masjid.
The Syllabus of the Madressas may look harmless but it is not the Syllabus that matters. It is the fact of keeping those hapless souls prisoner in the compounds & continuously brainwashing them that turns them into dangerous ROBOTs.
regards
NHK
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