Is America Ready for a Black President?

Asslamualaikum Sir,
I hope you will be fine. I am currently publishing a local Student's Magazine based in Pakistan. I need great articles to publish them. I have got good content so far. I have seen your article on Burga and I found it good to include in my magazine. I hope you will give us permission to publish it with your name in our Magazine.
Our magazine is distributed in all the universities of capital of Pakistan and in the market.

My email address is khawar.shehzad@gmail.com

Your earliest response will be highly appreciated.
I have also added this interact to your article Burqa Vaganza - A Satirical Backlash

Khawar Shehzad
Chief Editor
Student's Mag

no candidate with the middle name Hussain is going to be elected president of the post Bush United States any time soon -- may be in 2012 not in 2008 -- like it or not it is the year of the woman -- whether in India or in the United States.

Re:#51 Posted by tahmed32 on



(((If I were the Chowk Staff
Diddly Deedle Diddly
Deedle Deedle Deedle Diddly Dum
If I were the Chowk Staff
Masadi would be UltraSmart and Half
Echo would be the Arby Caliph
If I were the Chowk Staff!!!))))

ROFL...

what would that buffoon hamid be??

Re: # 44

Asadi Sahib, if you are pretending to be thickheaded, let me assure you that there is no need for that. Absolutely no need. Would you like to sign a declaration that says that your prophet was imposter? Here, you were so proud of not signing the “oath of allegiance” but you expect Ahmadis to sign some crap? You my friend are really dumb as a twig.

Ana, you can feel what you like to feel. I still believe that these are legitimate questions to ask. This nation was formed on asking tough questions.

#48 bjkumar bhai: you write This blows my theory that you ARE chowk staff!

(Please sing this to the tune of "If I were a Rich Man" from Fiddler on the Roof)

If I were the Chowk Staff
Diddly Deedle Diddly
Deedle Deedle Deedle Diddly Dum
If I were the Chowk Staff
Masadi would be UltraSmart and Half
Echo would be the Arby Caliph
If I were the Chowk Staff!!!

I got to go. Here is one for the road...

Chowk staff, you stink!

Go jump into a commode or something!

Perhaps the Beej is the chowk staff!!

Who else would be so dumb?!!

Tauheed sahib, I have never seen you so critical of chowk staff.

This blows my theory that you ARE chowk staff!

Perhaps you are the staff of chowk staff!

Or were simply staffed by it. :((

Perhaps interactors like Ana need to learn to type...

In a window OUTSIDE of a chowk page, that is...

Then the morons can not make your computer crash.

My personal favorite is Microsoft Word.

You have my word!

[one of stuff written in men's latrines in public places]

What makes you so sure the women's rooms are any better?!

The reason everyone is having so much trouble with this format is that the nested format is geared to logical discussion where two or more posters work together to beat an issue to death.
However, on chowk any attempts at such discussions get disrupted very quickly by people making statements while ignoring what the other person actually wrote.

In short, the nested format applies to websites that are properly moderated. Not chowk, which may have good web designers but has useless management that is incapable of even remotely ensuring respect for its own guidelines (which in turn are geared to promote intelligent discussion, rather than mere insults and namecalling that at times degenerates into grafitti that reminds one of stuff written in men's latrines in public places - all the while chowk staff being blithefully acting as if there is an interfaith dialogue taking place here).

That is my theory.

#40 Kulharee writes "But Dumbo, “everyone” takes the “same” oath, including Gays and Blacks"

Just like everyone has to "sign" that declaration, Sunni, Shia, Wahabi, Deobandi,Ahmadi, Christian, Parsi or whatever. Does not make either the US declaration or that statment just, and regardless of how you sign or take the declaration it does not ensure that your brown a$$ will be on equal par with the whites, in fact aggregate stats reveal that if you are African American you will be treated much worse, even if you were exempt from taking the oath by being born in the US, than Ahmadis are in Pakistan. Please provide evidence to substantiate your claim that the average Ahmadi is much worse off than the average run of the mill Pakistani in a society in which over 86% languish in poverty. You don't have a clue, little fool

What the hell just happened? I was typing a response to Kulharee and then I got sent to another page, and could not get back to what I was writing. Chalo Kulharee, aap bachh gaye, but aaaargh, how frustrating to be cut off in such a manner. Is there a limit to how many characters we can type now?

I am not going to retype what I was trying to say, only that you and I Kulharee are going to disagree on this, even though we are both religious minorities from the old country, where the question if asked, would be responded to with a resounding no. It is not that I do not wish this question to be asked. I wish for it to be asked differently. I wish for the question to be asked as Is America ready for Barack Obama and the answers not to have anything to do with his race. And that is not going to happen. There are still people out there who are not ready for a "black president" Kulharee. They are called white supremacists. And they should not be dismissed so summarily. And if we are going to ask that question of Barack Obama, then it should also be asked of Hilary Rodham Clinton and Christopher Dodd, and Ralph Nader, and anyone who is running for president. I know that I may not be making my point clear here, but I am going to walk away from this discussion because I think I've said all I want to say, and the only thing we might agree on is to disagree.

Re: # 40
But Dumbo, “everyone” takes the “same” oath, including Gays and Blacks.. but you cannot think rationally until you take your head out of your behind.

Kulharee writes "Is America ready for a Gay President? Is American ready for a Native American President? The three top Dem contender are: A Black, a Woman, a Hispanic. Just because we are “ready”."

You're a fool arent you, who is this we ? You think just because your brown a$$ got a passport you are part of that we ? Wait for another contrived "terror" attack, and see how fast your a$$ is lynched by the very people you are calling enlightened. The common run of the mill Pakistani, and I am not talking about the bigoted mullahs, by the way there were no Ahmadis back in 300BC you little fool, is much less prejudiced than the you ess of ay, that has a whole history of bigotry not only locally but the world over, starting with the systematic extermination of the natives....

Kulharee writes "I recently got a NICOP card and if I had not signed that I consider Mohammad the “last Prophet” I would be getting a “different” card, as expected,"

And if you didn't take your oath of allegiance (which I refuse to under any circumstance), you wouldn't have the US passport now would you. You chose a stupid example picked more for ulterior motive in Pakistan than any real power issues.....Pakistan might be fuxed up, but that fuxing up has more to do with our relationship with the machinery that is fuxing up the world, and that machinery if you read closely has the label, "MADE IN USA" clearly affixed to it in bright red and blue lettering.....Get an education fool....NICOP... ha ha, I can sign anything and still it takes me 20 trips to their office to get one much harder than a few scratches on paper...

Iron Mask and others,

Please do not underestimate the chowk-staff's strong will and iron-like determination to periodically keep proving to the whole world that they are - in their own little and big ways - just as capable of making total asses of themselves as are the interactors and most writers here!

A few cosmetic bells & whistles added at the great cost of ease of navigation and fast loading of pages. Thumbs down.

Re: # 35
urstruly please go here and make your contributions. The more like minded people we have the better it is

the link http://chowk.com/unplugged/t/42340

#35 urstruly you mena the layout where you could see the most recent 10 interacts per page. I agree. this is getting silly.....

Chowk Staff:

Please reinstate the previous thread structure. It is hard to follow discussion in the new set up. Please highlight the name of the interlocutors on top of each interact with bold and sliglty larger font. Also, keep the list of interlocutors on the right side of the thread as it previously was. It helps navigate.

The front page takes a lot of time to load, sometimes 2 minutes, even though I have highest speed internet availble in the market.

This threaded layout sucks big time

Chowk staff pliss get rid of it -its a damn nuisance

Re: # 27
Asadi Sahib.. Instead of wasting your brilliance over US Elite, I suggest that you contact the Pakistani establishment to have the forms for public services redesigned. I recently got a NICOP card and if I had not signed that I consider Mohammad the “last Prophet” I would be getting a “different” card, as expected, I refused to sign it, so I was issued a “different” card. As I didn’t really think that Mohammad had anything to do with the color of my ID card, but apparently it did. You can by all means keep blaming America for all your backwardness and fukedupness, but the question is when will you wake up?

#31 Posted by Kulharee on July 18, 2007 4:10:20 am
Masadi Sahib, I am sure you know a lot more about the world than I ever could. Perhaps you would also know that Ahmadis have a special form to sign to get even a friggin Shanakti card. Yes, they can be generals (and they were) but that was 300 BC just around the time Alexander fought with Porus near my village.

Do you have any friggin idea about the political economy of pakistan? Have you ever understood what Masadi has said and shouted from roof tops. It is not Pakistanis decreeing it as such. It is all in the hands ofthe Ameerikan Gods! Now pliss Kulharee wash that mind of yours and fill it with the right knowledge.

Re: # 23

Ana, It’s the question everyone and their mom is asking, and no one is really taking it in a racial context. It’s the same question that Time mag asked when Lieberman was running 8 years ago, and Jackson 12. Give Americans a little more credit than that. These are very legitimate questions to be pondering upon. Whether race is significant or not in a supposed “colorblind” society, it very most certainly is “important” and asking such questions does not make one racist. The point Gill Sahib made is not to question the intelligence of the Americans, but to view race/gender in a prevailing view.

Is America ready for a Gay President? Is American ready for a Native American President? The three top Dem contender are: A Black, a Woman, a Hispanic. Just because we are “ready”.

Masadi Sahib, I am sure you know a lot more about the world than I ever could. Perhaps you would also know that Ahmadis have a special form to sign to get even a friggin Shanakti card. Yes, they can be generals (and they were) but that was 300 BC just around the time Alexander fought with Porus near my village.

#28 a correction

(a)"Is ABlack American Ready to become the American President?"

(b)(indeed MASADA Complex might even agree with my question but not necessarily they way it is put).,

Democrats gonna win the White house, but its really difficult to say "a woman" or "African American" will be the Head of States,Unless Republican play correctly the card of Osama bin Laden at the end.
Think global ! Act local !

Gill,

The question is not "Is America Ready for a Black President?" but is a "Is Black American Ready to become the American President?"

That is the key issue here. Is the Black ready to reinforce American interests, its most primary interests, in the rest of the world or would he take his historical baggage to the world table and subvert American Interests? Historical Baggage which others could use to subvert american interests.

It is this non-PC question which you must answer. I am sure this question would raise the hackles of Ms Lemon, and Masada Complex (indeed MASADA Complex might even agree with my question but necessarily they way it is put)., nevertheless a question which must be confronted and Monsieur Obama must be able to answer and convince the people with it.

Kulharee writes "Can you imagine asking if Pakistan is ready for an Ahmadi President "

This tells me that Kulharee knows sh** about Pakistani political economy just as he knows sh** about the US system.
Let an Ahmadi become the top general in the Pak Army, and sure he can if he shows the right amount of deference to the US elite, and he can then become whatever he wants in Pakistan. By the way, skin color and religion are not the same. When Lieberman ran for VP big question marks arose about his being Jewish, similar to when Kennedy ran- religion is as much or more an issue in US elections than it is in Pakistan. Did the shiaism of Benazir become a big issue in a sunni country? or did her femaleness?

Gill:
“Obama’s ancestors on his white mother’s side appear to have been slave owners.

It is no wonder, also well documented by William Domhoff "Minorities in the Power Elite", that those chosen from among minorities that make it into the ranks of the elite (disproportionately small) not only are more like their white counterparts in worldview they are also closer to them in looks and skin color than the ordinary run of the mill person. This was true of Colin Powell as it is of Obama- that said it will be no revolution if these vetted "uncle toms" become president

Blacks do not have equal rights with whites in the US, aggregate statistics reveal that quite clearly, those that say otherwise do not know sh** about US society, white, black or whatever....

That said, GILL, don't write articles just for the heck of it, put some more thought in what you write or you'll keep producing tape-recorderesque, moronic nonsense...(respectfully said)

(Enter the Presidential aspirants)

Obama (O): hum kale hai to kya hua dilwale hai
hum tere tere tere chahanewale hai
hum kale hai to kya hua dilwale hai
hum tere tere tere chahanewale hai
hum kale hai to kya hua dilwale hai

Hillary (H): yeh gore gala tandana
yeh reshmi bala tandana

(Bumps into Monica)

Bill Clinton (BC): hai solah salah tandana
hai tere khayala tandana
hum tere tere tere chahanewale hai......

Hillary (H): Allah!
tumhi kidher ko jate tandana
kyun paas na aate tandana
kya maar yeh baata tandana
dil tod yeh ghata tandana
hum tere tere tere chahanewale hai.....

McCain (M): hume mana garib hai tandana
surat se ajeeb hai tandana
phir bhi naseeb hai tandana
ke tere karib hai tandana
hum tere tere tere chahanewale hai.......

(Exit the Presidential aspirants)

Backgrounds and qualifications aside:

We have had eight years of Bill Clinton, eight years of Dubya, and how many years of George the father? Even with Hilary's experience and qualifications, do we want the passing back and forth of the dynastic torch?

I am still undecided on that. And has her stance on the Iraq war changed? I guess that is not a big enough factor.

Kulharee,

Granted we are free to ask this question here in the USA, my question is why are we still asking this question about a woman or a black man? If we are still having to ask this question then let me tell you, this beautiful system as you so describe it, has not evolved much in the past how many years. I take it that you have either heard or read (or both) Martin Luther King Jr.'s "I have a dream" speech. This question only reinforces what some of us people of color are still painfully aware of. We are not being judged by the content of our character, but the color of our skin. So if you think this question is part of the "beauty" of our system, that is your opinion. Obama's experience should be the primary factor here. Not the fact that he is black. But of course it would not have made sense to have said Is America Ready For An Inexperienced President. After all we have had one for the past eight pinche years. Some of us already know the answer to that question.

Re: # 21

Dear Ana, it is the beauty of this system that anyone can ask such questions. Can you imagine asking if Pakistan is ready for an Ahmadi President (yes, Ahmadis are citizens of Pakistan). It even allows foreigners to poke fun of its ways. Imagine someone questioning Prophet Mohammad’s prophethood in some Islami countries?

With all due respect to Gill sahib, who has put together this article, and all the rest of you, I personally am tired of this question. Black people are citizens of this country and if one of them runs for president, more power to them. Regardless of whether America is ready or not, there are folks other than our white brothers and sisters who will be running for president, and maybe not Obama, but one day a change is going to come.

Also the insinuation that Obama is an Uncle Tom is insulting and quite ridiculous.

Please fix the interacts format (to what it used to be).. rest of the changes seem well intentioned and may (eventually) work well. Give us a choice to go back to the old look and feel (as much as feasible). thanks.

Isn't Obama an Uncle Tom? More pertinently, wont he have to be a 'house nigger' (in the words of the great Malcolm X) to have any realistic chance of being elected POTUS?

I think Mrs. Clinton has more chance of winning the nomination this time round but Obama is still young enough to run again the next time round or the time after that...

Good read Gill sahib,

He [Bill Clinton] is so popular that many [among the blacks] call him the first black president of America.

He was immensly popular in gay community as well but no one calls him first gay president of America :)

Reply to #16 by echoboom:

"we are all guilty of this namak-slavery"

I would not go that far ... 'we all' ... but you got a solid point. I call it the 'mai-baap' syndrome.

Not at all Pathans & gurkhaas too...post 1857
and Pre-1857 Brahmins, muslim nawabs, poorabyaas, & tilangaas.

This namak loyalty is the root problem. Dharam loyalty without never namkeen.

here the claim was by khalsaa..so the reply.

we are all guilty of this namak-slavery.

All of us from that region have same DNA and are humans first and formost. Proud does not mean arrogant. It just means secure in who you are.

Obama is a nice guy, just needs more experience. Dont care what any president's religion is. This place civilizes people over time and they will do what's right for USA.

GT is right. 1857 loyalties were based upon each community's interests and their experiences at the hands of others. Nothing new.

Bye for now.

Reply to #13 by echoboom,

Boom sahib:

You say, "and then one ends up as Mandi Bhaudin Punjabi Khalsas licking the hand that feeds them..like in 1857."

You conviniently forget the pathans (and the gurkhas)! Why? Selective recall or ignorance of history?

Beware!

There might be a President Aurangzeb Obama someday...you might have to watch your diet then. Khalsa DNA's do get mixed up with Papppas, Jaats & RaamGarRiyyahs, khatris, and Gujjars...

and then one ends up as Mandi Bhaudin Punjabi Khalsas licking the hand that feeds them..like in 1857.

#11 echo

No need to check :). Solid Mandi Bhaudeen Punjabi Khalsa DNA and proud of it.

On top of it, not a Namak Harami and therefore a loyal American :).

#10 Posted by Pardesi
Stop bashing Americans please :)
_______________________________________

Anyone who does not bash USA or suggests not to bash USA should have his DNA checked...for geneology. :)

America is ready for a black president but not Obama. Obama does not have demonstrable experience as senator or governor. Lot of potential though.

Collin Powell would have won in 2000, if he had decided to run.

Stop bashing Americans please :)

I think O'Bama is just a poster boy. He will be the presedent of USA on the day when fish will ride bicycle. On the other hand Guiliani closely fits the profile of a typical US President - psycopath, and a genocidal maniac - so I think he is the first choice of the establishment i.e. US elite. Voting system is a very articulate and calculated fraud and does not count.

They are pathologically paranoid of Islam.


This is BS, plain and simple. They are afraid of islamofascism, not islam.

Plus, there was a poll that said americans would sooner elect a muslim to the white house than an atheist.

Ethnic as in Dukakis, Tsongas, Giuliani, etc. US is 30% Germanic, and at one time German was being considered to be the national language. Kennedy won because Nixon sucked.

Kulharee:

In 1960, many about Americans said about John Kennedy that America is not ready for a Catholic President. And wasn't Eisenhower an ethnic German?

#4 can you please define "ethnic president"?
Meh Punjab dee khet dee mooli

America is not ready for a Black or an Ethnic president. Giuliani stands no chance, even to get a nomination. Middle America is not there yet. Hillary will make a good President.

Obama has very little to show for, he is inexperienced and he hasn’t been tested under pressure yet. Hillary is a known commodity and with her what you see is what you get.

Further to #2, opinion polls may not accurately measure prejudice. Some people may be reluctantly to openly admit racial prejudice to a pollster but may have no such constraint when in the privacy of a polling booth.

Gill Saheb:

A good question but a difficult one to answer. I think that if America is ready for a Black president, it would be for someone like Obama, not only because he has a white mother but especially as he does not flout his blackness too much - it would be like Dr. Kalam's acceptablility as not only the President but also as Prime Minister of India.

But even if he is rejected, the question would remain whether he was rejected because he is Black or because of his Madrassa education in the childhood and his being perceived as Muslim. As your article points out, it is likely that this issue will emerge, not by Hilary or any of her Democrat rivals directly but through subterranean campaigns and conservative media and talk shows. And if he wins the nomination, his Republican opponent may not even be averse to making it an open issue. I, for one, would like it to become a public issue so that Obama can tackle it head-on rather than remain in the background and do quiet damage to his candidacy.

Nice article, requires spell checking and minor editing. Mr Gill focuses only on two democratic choices, completely sidelining republicans as if they dont exist, or, maybe Mr Gill simply doesnt like republicans. Given the choice between a black, a woman or a mormon (think mitt romney) i would chose the mormon. Just because war isnt going well doesnt mean americans wont vote along party lines, I'd rather have a mormon president than a black, woman, southern baptist or a catholic.
Meh Punjab dee khet dee mooli