Does Islam, in fact, Encourage Paedophilia?

Hamidm ji, neither me, nor any other Indian is denying bride burning in India, shamefacedly or otherwise. The question was only about the figure. However, those who do such things should be hanged by the lampposts.

Also, those who spread ethnic hatred against Madrasis or Bengalis or even Sndhis or Punjabis, should be flogged publicly.

Do you agree, Sir?

tehsin,

..... you were always a pathetic pineless creature ! ......... it seems that you have meekly accepted urstruly's argument that girls should be married off as soon as they reach puberty because some perverts from ny city are going all the way to bangkok to have sex with little girls ...... he also seems to imply that nine and ten year old girls lust after dirty old men with beer bellies and bad breath and should therfore be allowed to marry them .......

..... shame on you for letting him get away with this stuff ..... you deserve the soon to be imposed sharia laws in greenwich !

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re. hamzaad #116:

Here is a question: The creator of the planets and universal laws commissioned a man to recite Arabic for posterity. If indeed this man, at the age of 53, enagaged in kissing/fondling, say, a 19 year old girl, should we hold his ways of doing other things as exemplary?

If we can agree that a 19 yo, or a 12 yo for that matter, is capable of giving consent, then Hell, yes!

"... we have to resolve this for the all the 19 year old girls who are saying no to 53 year old good men..."

Funny, but we heard nary a word about 'resolution' when Rod Stewart last tied the knot... Maybe that's coz the 19 (or 21?) y-o in question didn't say no to begin with. Are you suggesting that Mohammed's marriage to Ayesha sets a precedent for marriage against the will of the female? Please clarify how, if so.

This is Aisha's take on what she underwent with Mo the mighty...
The Prophet engaged me when I was a girl of six (years). We went to Medina and stayed at the home of Bani-al-Harith bin Khazraj. Then I got ill and my hair fell down. Later on my hair grew (again) and my mother, Um Ruman, came to me while I was playing in a swing with some of my girl friends. She called me, and I went to her, not knowing what she wanted to do to me. She caught me by the hand and made me stand at the door of the house. I was breathless then, and when my breathing became Allright, she took some water and rubbed my face and head with it. Then she took me into the house. There in the house I saw some Ansari women who said, "Best wishes and Allah's Blessing and a good luck." Then she entrusted me to them and they prepared me (for the marriage). Unexpectedly Allah's Apostle came to me in the forenoon and my mother handed me over to him, and at that time I was a girl of nine years of age. (Bukhari, Volume 5, Book 58, Number 234)

#211 Mohar : Hahaha it is so nice to see pious Al-Jehadis defending the prophet (A to Z) by throwing mud on ordinary common-o-garden pimps and traffickers.

Kya yeh din dekhna baki reh gaya tha? Hahaha.

Wait, he will now post pictures the mutilated bodies of Indian soldiers, hahaha.

If nothing will defend the Messenger of Allah, that sure will, hahaha.

GTG. Have fun, everybody.

Re: # 209

subhash,

..... i agree with you 100 percent, except on the little matter of getting flogged for insulting a madrasi ...... the madrasis insult my aesthetic sensibilities by appearing in public places ........ if they stop doing that, i will stop insulting them ....... deal ?

There is a reason why people resort to nasty insults on chowk, - its for lack of an alternative, since there is zero willingness to engage in true dialogue. I think this place is like being in the death spiral of a really nasty marriage and at this point it doesnt matter if someone even gives you a kidney because last year they screwed your best friend.

1.Clearly muslims do not hold the world record on pedophilia, admittedly data that comes out of india and pakistan alike is crap but if the nabs on pedo's in america are any reflection this is way more likely to be an indian thing. I actually doubt any part of the world has more pedophiles than any other part of the world.

2. Clearly even the most hardlining muslims use phones, they go to school, they use the internet, etc etc etc ....so clearly not only did the Prophet NOT ask to be emulated down to the last detail noone does that as a matter of faith either.

3.Clearly religion has got to be interpreted. Some people will always be sick no matter what they say they say they believe in. People who are not sick (muslims and nonmuslims alike) can see quite clearly that the message is not about abusing children and women. Actually for that time and the place Islam was an exceedingly progressive and feminist religion. But its impossible to inflict current progressive mores retro-actively.


I think we all know the above exceedingly simple points are all true ...but i guess it would defeat the point to show up on chowk and not display some highly malignant point of view, so i dont expect any recognition.

hamidm2

Dude the topic under discussion is mo the mighty and not Michael jackson...So sod off....

Re (#196),

… as for the prophet - I believe that he had a spiritual experience in the cave, and he relayed it honestly (and this is the key, and I'll come back to it in a minute) to his followers. He thus fulfilled his role as messenger, which is all that is expected from him. He is not considered to be an angel or a divine being who must be perfect in every way - that is too much to expect from any human being, and it takes away nothing from the fact that he played his role of messenger quite faithfully.

His honesty: The message that he relayed (as written down in the Quran) clearly limits his role to that of a messenger. It explicitly denies him any role in implementation. If he was not honest, there is every reason to believe that he would have left these parts out.

+++

tahmed, There’s a lot you have missed. You should first read Quran … all of it, and not just parts that conform to your own ideas. Quran does confer special status to the Prophet (pbuh). Here are but a few examples:

In 33:53, Quran admonishes believers not to marry Prophet’s wives after he has departed. What does this sound like to you???

In 33:30, Quran warns that Prophet’s wives will get twice the punishment for their sins (presumably compared to other women who sin). Seems like Allah is playing favorites here. No?

In 33:30, Quran addresses the Prophet: “O Prophet! We have made lawful to thee thy wives ……… and any believing woman who dedicates her soul to the Prophet if the Prophet wishes to wed her;- this only for thee, and not for the Believers (at large) …”

Here again you see a special provision for the Prophet only, and not for other believers!

I could go on, but this should suffice for now. Moving on …

You believe (on what basis? I wonder) that Muhammad had spiritual experience and you accept him as a prophet. No problem. But when an Ahmadi says the same thing about Mirza Sahib, you claim that Ahamdis are setting up intermediaries between man and god.

These are but a few blatant contradictions in your views … which come across as hypocrisy, more than anything else.

hamidm #159:

"...... what kind of a question is that?......... do you think any nine year old will not be traumatized by having to submit to a fifty year old? "

HamidmiaN, I'll admit that 9 years is a shocker. OTOH, studies from more 'primitive' societies suggest that even 12 year-olds are more than ready for sex and childbirth. That takes care of the "physical maturity" part. (Where age disparity need not matter.) The 'emotional maturity' is more complex, and here age disparity would seem to matter. But the harm that results comes mainly from the meanings attached (by society) to these acts, and some from the incompatibility of the child's aspirations (WHAT ARE THEY??)with the adults. For these reasons, in our day and age, it would be unthinkable to let a 12-yo, let alone a 9 yo, marry a 55 yo.

"..... a lot of abused children outwardly appear to be okay, but that does not lessen their suffering ..... like all those choir boys abused by their priests, the children might be able to bury their horrible memories for a while, but the pain lingers just below the surface ........."

Again, I'm sorry but I don't buy into this ABUSE BY SUGGESTION. I'm not denying some children are abused. But I am suggesting that it's more than a little odd that 650 Johnnies suddenly start to feel they were abused, in a society like the U.S., for years on end when they were in their teens. And not even by some real authority figure like a father (which would make their stories more believable), but by a priest!

Don't get me wrong... I'm sure some hanky-panky happened in all those cases... I'm saying that the "abuse" in most cases is imputed onto what would otherwise largely have been neutral to positive experiences. (and let's not forget the financial incentive here to feel victimised!)

And yes, I do have solid statistical evidence to back this up.

....... and even though child marriage was common in that society, i think people have every right to expect better judgement from a prophet .........

I can agree with you here. Except that, if I were a Muslim, I'd probably say, like TAhmed I think, that hey, the guy was human. Maybe it never even crossed his mind that he'd be doing something that would be considered extremely naughty in ages to come.

And yes, I agree that those who see him as the Perfect Man, to be emulated in every way possible, are up a creek here.

tahmed32:

"Given that Indians have even more backward customs today (including marriages of children to old men), given that Indians have far more stupid, superstitious ways (bathing gods in milk, allowing cows to roam on streets and create a mess on the roads, and so on) than perhaps any people on earth today other than some remote jungle tribes, why do they act so shocked that 14 centuries ago (when societies were far more primitive than today) a man married an underage girl? That is what I mean."

Sawaal gandam, jawaab cheenam! Is it mandatory for Hindu/Indian chowkies to discuss these problems regardless of what the topic of discussion is? You may recall that when I wrote my article on female infanticide in India, Indians did discuss and mostly condemned the practice.

So what was Allah thinking when he chose Mohammad as a
messenger? Why did he choose him?
Allah should/must have explained at least a little bit
it somewhere!

Did Allah not know that there would such a controversy
arise in future times about his marriage to Aisha,
so why let the marriage happen?

Why not choose some erudite scholar or some king/prince
or some impeccable personality as a prophet?

Surely anything can happen whatever Allah wills right?

Now, read the following carefully ... word by word.

Do I hear any hindu moralizing here?