Does Islam, in fact, Encourage Paedophilia?

@235

(correction)

No, Pakistan was created because Muslims were afraid that Hindus being in majority would get power and treat them (muslims) as the latter had treated the hindus when they were were in power. They did not like what they saw when they looked back at their own behavior

cliftonbridge #228,

Technically you are right about prayers, which is why I stayed away from it. And that’s why I referred to the Quran itself … which commands believers to send salutations to the Prophet (pbuh). Heck, Quran even warns believers not to marry Prophet’s widows after he (pbuh) passes away.

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hamidm,

I think tahmed sahib is either in denial, or is reading from a different Quran … one with several missing verses. Perhaps there is something to the goat story after all.

But the latest from Sahib is that … Quran is for Arabs only … and the rest of us should not worry about its commandments prohibiting alcohol and pork. So you were right all along in enjoying the good things our Lord has made for us. Takbeer.

+++

Kaniz (#240),

I was just about to point out the same. Thanks for the clarification; now it all makes sense ...

And Pakistani's in one stroke decided some Pakistanis who
were Hindus could not be head of state just because they
are Hindus.

Pakistanis do not talk, they just do it.

re. TAhmed #234:

"In any case, my point is that you dont condemn an entire religion due to something done in its name. Otherwise (as I have painstakingly tried to demonstrate by giving examples of Shintoism, Buddhism, Christianity, Hinduism) every religion stands condemned. Every ideology (including Democracy, Capitalism, Communism) stands condemned."

I have to think you're being deliberately dense here. As others have already pointed out, there is a difference in killing in the name of religion (and providing justifications- flawed or otherwise-- for the killing), and killings by those who just happened to belong to a certain ideology. If you negate causative factors in such events, you may as well claim that ALL men are evil, since, from all evidence, all of those you mention were men.

But don't worry, you'd be in the company of some good feminists if you did argue that way! :0)

Shiva

The non antrhropomorphic Lingam form of Shiva is what is held in reverence in temples all over the sub continent. The Lingam is a symbol. It is a symbol of that which is invisible yet omnipresent. It is hence a a visible symbol of the Ultimate Reality which is present in us (and in all objects of creation ).

The Shivalingam denotes the primeval energy of the Creator.It is believed that at the end of all creation, during the great deluge, all of the different aspects of God find a resting place in the Lingam; Bhrama is absorbed into the right, Vishnu to the left and Gayatri into the heart. The Shivalingam is also a representation of the infinite Cosmic Column of fire, whose origins, Vishnu and Bhrama were unable to trace. (see Lingodbhavar).



Legend has it that Parvati fashioned a Shivalingam with a fistful of sand at Kanchipuram and worshipped Shiva; this lingam is known as the Prithvilingam, denoting the primordial element earth. Shivalingams in several temples are swayambus, or that which appeared on their own, or that which is untouched by a chisel. On the other hand, there are temples where the Shivalingam is carved out of stone and installed. The highly polished Shivalingams of the Pallava period bear several stripes, as in the Kailasanatha temple at Kanchipuram.

The Shivalingam is generally mounted on a circular or quadrangular receptacle called the Avudaiyar. This pedestal is designed so as to drain off the water offered during ablution ceremonies. In temples such as Kanchipuram, abhishekam is offered only to the pedestal and not to the Shivalingam made of sand. The bottom of the pedestal represents Bhrama, the octogonal middle represents Vishnu and the upper circular portion represents Shiva. The upper portion of the Shivalingam may be of various shapes, cylindrical, elliptical, umbrella shaped. Images may also be (rarely) carved on a Shivalingam.

Nandi, the bull is depicted facing the sanctum in all Saivite temples, symbolizing the human soul Jeevatma yearning for realizing its oneness with Paramatma, the ultimate reality.

Typically, the processional bronze images of Shiva are those of Somaskanda, Chandrasekhara, Bhikshatana and Nataraja. Although in most Shiva temples, the central shrine enshrining the Shivalingam is of the greatest importance, the Nataraja shrine is of greater importance at Chidambaram, the Somaskandar - Tyagarajar shrine is of greater significance at Tiruvar

Re: Kaniz (#240).

Fatima too young for Umar?

Doesn't this support the argument of those who say that Ayesha was actually much older at the time of her marriage?

#244 PM: So, you think the pope just happened to be christian when anabaptists were burnt at the stake in the middle ages (over 200,000 by one estimate)? or that brahmins just happen to be hindus when they piled insult over injury over insult over untouchables through the centuries? or that advani just happened to be hindu when he demonstrated his leadership qualities in tearing down the mosque? Could have fooled me!

Well guys......seriously...being a student of philosophy its kinda pain in the butt to see educated folks discussing (determining) the validity of a religion on the basis of such issue.

I won't surprise to see this kinda stupidity from hamid buffoon and the hindu fundos here but.......PM(patrick)?

Re: # 248


PM, seems like you are feeling like there is no room to maneuver. Instead of addressing the philosphical issues like a student of philosophy you seem to be degenerating into name calling !!!! What philosophy do you study?

giani ji, there is only one philosopher, and he is not PM or I or anyone else. :)

philo

PM accepts the validity of religion WITHOUUT any recourse to reason, on the basis of faith alone.

PM, tahmed

Generally, religions do get condemned for things done in their name (not that Islam has to be - that's a different matter). So Christianity was blamed for papacy and what Popes did, Hinduism was and is blamed for caste inequities, and so forth.

More to the point, a number of posts seem to undercut the bigger argument that the Prophet ought to be treated as an ordinary person, and that his life and actions do not hold a significant message for all Muslims or for Islam (ustruly, sattar here).

tahemd ji, could you address those posts, please.

tahmed,

You are clutching on straws. Your Thomas Jefferson example misses the point. There is a big difference between him and Muhammad (pbuh).

Muhammad, and not TJ, came from god. And Muhammad conveyed a book from god. And this book, among other things, praises Muhammad himself (unless you’re dense, you’d see the irony). Moral lapses, or lack of foresight, on part of Muhammad cast a shadow of doubt on the book itself. This shakes the very foundation of Islam. Of course, denial is one way to deal with these issues.

Furthermore, people like Thomas Jefferson gave us the US constitution, which has been amended 27 times so far. People understand that framers of constitution were human after all, and thus the need to amend the constitution as needed. But the same does not apply to Quran. How many times has it been amended?

tahmed yar, if you draw a cartoon of thomas jefferson cohabiting with his slaves, not even a chai ki dukan will be burnt..have some sense of proportion.

PM, sorry for delayed response. I agreed that our bad feelings or feelings of being victims (of abuse, molested, oppressed, cheated, being short, being fat etc) are exaggerated by the norms prevalent through which society exerts its control. BUT that is only partly true and ..in my view partly a good thing. even if there was no pressure from society or society considers it perfectly normal for a 40 yr old male to have sex with a 5 yr old, does that make it right to do so? No. I might live in a society that thinks fat people are beautiful, but we now know it may not be good for my health.

for some reason I don't buy your theory that young children having sex (even if willfully) with older adults does not constitute abuse. you seem to suggest that youngster is tender and beautiful hence has power over the older freak and older freak is a nice guy melted like moam worshipping and pleasing the youngster hence no abuse. That is bull of crap in my opinion. there may be exceptions..an intelligent, confident and informed 19 yr old sleeping and marrying a 80 yr old millionaire, knowing she will get his millions in couple of years...but even that has proved to ruin her life..anna nicole.

#196 Posted by tahmed32

[ajeya: as for the prophet - I believe that he had a spiritual experience in the cave, and he relayed it honestly (and this is the key, and I'll come back to it in a minute) to his followers. He thus fulfilled his role as messenger, which is all that is expected from him. He is not considered to be an angel or a divine being who must be perfect in every way - that is too much to expect from any human being, and it takes away nothing from the fact that he played his role of messenger quite faithfully.

His honesty: The message that he relayed (as written down in the Quran) clearly limits his role to that of a messenger. It explicitly denies him any role in implementation. If he was not honest, there is every reason to believe that he would have left these parts out.]

tahmed,

Of course, ol' mo was a smart cookie. This is how he chose to spin it, because this makes him look separate from the "message". But this is no proof of anything.

You are clutching at straws, faced with the OVERWHELMING evidence that he is a man whose character and actions are so absymally low, that he CANNOT be trusted with even BELIEVABLE things, leave alone cock-and-bull stories about winged creatures in caves.

The VERY FOUNDATION of your faith is non-existent.

Unfortunately, that's the sad truth. Stop lying to yourself, and admit it to yourself. You'll feel better about yourself.

Re: # 250

Kaal, you are right I meant philosopher

#250 Posted by KaalChakra

kaal

((((philo

PM accepts the validity of religion WITHOUUT any recourse to reason, on the basis of faith alone.))))

LOL....kaal ji.....friendly fire????

ginai_420

(((What philosophy do you study?)))

I study philosophy of gaoism and its muttar's influence on the modren india's philosophico-spirtual activity and gao goaber's effects on indian politics.

Jay Hind.