Does Islam, in fact, Encourage Paedophilia?

Re: # 159

Sorry Sir, you are wrong on this one. Current society has no right to make judgments on past behavior, especially some 1400-years-ago behavior. Prophets only provide leadership of behavior for the current society. Jesus himself brought down the money collectors of his time; yet, today we see taxing authorities all over the world, and the criminality of the financial industry.

PM,

you ask, "Is there any evidence at all that Ayesha's emotional or intellectual health was stunted by her marriage at an early age? Is there, in fact, any evidence to the contrary?"

....... what kind of a question is that?.......... do you think any nine year old will not be traumatized by having to submit to a fifty year old? ..... a lot of abused children outwardly appear to be okay, but that does not lessen their suffering ..... like all those choir boys abused by their priests, the children might be able to bury their horrible memories for a while, but the pain lingers just below the surface .........

....... and even though child marriage was common in that society, i think people have every right to expect better judgement from a prophet .........

..... sorry, but i find any attempt to justify this abomination rather distasteful ..........

hamidm: did christianity become evil when the church payed $600 million or so to victims of pedophiles? and I am talking of something that happened last week, not last millenium.

I shall be back later to see if you have a good answer to that.

#156 by tahmed32 on July 24, 2007 5:36:00 am

Did christianity become evil when Hitler killed millions of innocent people? Did buddhism and shintoism become evil when Japanese killed millions of innocent people? Did hinduism become evil when Modi killed 3000 innocent people?

Where did you get this information from? Hitler did not, repeat did not use religion as a justification for his massacre of Jews.

Individuals commit crimes. Religion/ideology is merely an excuse they use. Everyone knows that. That is why christianity, buddhism and shintoism were not banned, or even considered relevant to the issues, after World War II.

Japan's crimes were imperial in nature, not religious. At best, you're grossly misinformed. At worst, you're deliberately misrepresenting facts.

Indians merely use incidents of terrorism committed in the name of Islam as an excuse to demonize what is a minority religion in their country. Only thing is - they fool only themselves, not people in the west.

Just the other day, a survey in America revealed that Americans fear their kids marrying Muslims the most, as compared to them marrying Atheists or Mormons. The Dutch are increasingly questioning their country's immigration policies which in the past absorbed a lot of African Arab Muslims. Other European nations are doing the same. By ignoring such pointers, people like you are fooling yourselves. Muslims are a lot safer in India than Hindus can ever be in a Muslim-majority country.

Rather than a part of the solution as it could be to neighboring countries like Pakistan.

Pakistan's problems are Pakistan's. Where does India figure in all this?

There have been numerous cases of what is considered pedophilia in ancient Hindu culture.

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Yes, the predicament you pose sounds odd but only because our social conditioning has rendered us a certain mindset. Otherwise I do not see a moral dilemma here. In several of contemporary societies and in very recent past in almost every society this has been a norm. As I explained to PM in several posts below, a legally married relationship between an older male and a younger female (who is at puberty, not before) is not only biologically and anthropologically viable but it is also in the nature of both males and females. It is a universal and documented fact that the older and middle aged men are acutely attracted to pubescent girls and vice versa is also true. It is a scientifically documented fact, which can be verified simply by Google. Every medical and psychology journal will also attest to this fact.

In our societies late marriage has consequences. Boys waste most of the period of their sexually productive and fulfilling life in chasing phantom careers while educated girls waste the same period of their lives waiting for those boys whom they see ambitiously chasing their phantom careers. At the end of the day both turn out to be losers. In Muslim societies where extra-marital sex is forbidden this creates an unnecessary psychological burden on our youth and their parents.

But if we compare our societies with Western societies, for example, where sexual anarchy is the norm the sex for youth is not guilt and risk free either; neither it is fulfilling. The young in these societies waste the prime of their youth haunted by the lurking ghosts of STDs, unwanted pregnancies, early abortions, HIV, AIDS, Herpes, and most of all they have to bear the brunt of a culture and psychology of infidelity and selfishness. That is what which has destroyed the family and social structure in West.

So it is only logical and common sense to promote legal marriages between youth to start a sexually fulfilling life. That is what creates the culture and psychology of everlasting fidelity and selflessness. It is financially less burdensome not only for the couple but also their parents who only need to support one extra family member for a short while.

Please do not fight the common sense, just because a religion that you despise, is promoting it. What is right is right.

#166 is adressed to Tehsinabbasi #165

Lots of people have written Hindus also do this; Hindu Gods did this or did that; And so all Indian Hindus are just as bad as Muslims

If you know little bit about so-called Hindu people you will find out there is no one founder, there is no one bible/Koran or any one anything common dogma or belief system.

Hindus were called Hindus by Iranis/Arabs (who also called muslims in India as hindus ); later British labeled all non-muslim, non-christian, non-parsi, non-sikh, etc. to be Hindus.

Most hindus are not taught anything about religion because there is no structured teaching as among jews, Christians, muslims. Only Brahmins know something about the religion because they studied Vedas and stuff. Rest 97 % were not allowed or not even supposed to study Vedas and know about religion. Now even modern brahmins are not studying religion because they don’t want to spend their whole life “ghanti-bajao-ing” in mandirs.

For spiritual sustenance, within one region, different castes have different forms of worship; within one caste different villages have different forms of worship; within a village, different families worship differently and have family gods.

Because there is no cannon, Hindus worship or believe what their parents taught them but eventually do whatever they feel comfortable. I can bet most hindus on this forum worshipped gods only before they went for their exams or interviews and stuff like that and that is pretty much the extent of their religion.

There are some Hindus who worship rats but those rat-worshippers are only in that one temple in Rajasthan. Rest so-called millions of hindus have no idea or as scared of rats or are as prejudiced against rats as any other humans.

Hindus only think about religion when Christians and Muslims get on their face and ask what they worship and they have to say something, otherwise they don’t have much clue. They will get defensive and aggressive when you put them down or kill them thru terrorism only because they are hindus.

Most Hindus mostly think only along the lines of their caste and caste is more of a religion than anything else. But because of Pakistanis and Indian Muslims harping on “Hindu this & Hindu that” and all Hindu majority regions ending up in India and because of the work by RSS and BJP to create a Hindu vote-bank there is some sense of Hindu-ness among the so-called Hindus.

The only generalization you can make about Hinduism and about so called Hindus is – “you cannot generalize about the hindus”

#162 HH: Never heard of the Shinto Yakusuni shrine dedicated to the Japanese war dead which includes remains of the most infamous of Japanese convicted war criminals (including the executed prime minister Tojo and the commander of the infamous Japanese death camp in China called Unit 631 or something where civil and military prisoners were dissected alive and so forth)?? This would be equivalent to Ben Laden and other terrorists being buried in Badshahi Masjid Lahore, with Pakistani prime ministers paying homage every year!!

Have you never heard of the religious status of the Japanese Emperor (the descendant of the sun god in shintoism) in whose name Japanese set out for glory by murdering tens of millions of people???

Have you never heard of the links between the Catholic Church and Nazis, with Pope Pius XII being accused of ignoring Nazi atrocities against jews at best??

Are you totally ignorant of the history of the world, where close links can be found between brutalities carried out by supposedly "religious" people??

Forget about history and the rest of the world - have you never heard of brahmin atrocities on lower castes in India? And what about this thing Cobra mentions??

Go educate yourself first, since obviously the Indian education system has totally failed you. Then come talk to me about Islam being unique in having evil acts carried out in its name!!

#168 "“you cannot generalize about the hindus”

Sure. But of course hindus can generalize about everyone else.

hamidm: I see you ignored my question. That's OK. Dont strain your brain by trying to be rational on my account. :-)

Re: # 172

tahmed,

sorry, but i also have a day job !........

to answer your question: "did christianity become evil when the church payed $600 million or so to victims of pedophiles? "

..... the answer is a simple "no" ...... but if jesus christ had buggered little boys and his followers had defended and followed that practice for the last 2000 years, it would be a different story ...... no?..... do you see the difference?

hamidm: I see you ignored my question. That's OK. Dont strain your brain by trying to be rational on my account. :-)

Re: # 176

urstruly,

"It is an undeniable fact of life that men and women from all Western affluent societies travel to third world "tourist destinations" to have sex with pubescent youth."

.... there are also people who eat human flesh and like to have sex with animals and dead people ...... does this mean that we should legalize cannibalism, beastiality and necrophilia ???
...... stop clutching at straws !

Re: # 173 Tehsin

I understand your ponit. But I can even create worst or more horrible hypothetical scenarios to prove a point and yet I can create hypothetical scenarios to prove a contrary point of view too.

But that is not the point. We must look at it from the point of view of the permissibility of a legally binding marital relationship b/w an older male and a younger female (and vice versa). This permissibity does not necessarily translate into compulsion and obligation. It is also a fact of life that in certain circumstances such relationships do serve their purpose, such as in case of war, desease, extreme poverty and natural disaster when younger females are left helpless to fend for themselves. In the absence of a legally married avenue they have no option left but to sell their bodies to survive. This is a scenario we all are very well familiar to when such occurences happen all too often around the globe. So which one is a better option. A pubescent girl and boy selling themselves to survive or be legally married to an older person but have security and respect?? Islam makes the lives of human beings easier and not complicated. It teaches humans the art of possibility and convenience in their relationships but not deviance and perversion.

It is an undeniable fact of life that men and women from all Western affluent societies travel to third world "tourist destinations" to have sex with pubescent youth. They pay premium price for this. It is utterly nonsense to think that they go half way across the world to see a frgging pagoda. No sir. It wrenches one's heart to see that sex trade (of pubescent youth)has become a staple business in certain societies around the globe. For God's sake cant you see exploitation in a 13 year old girl sleeping with twelve middle aged men in one night while fighting STDs and painful death from those diseases? If you can't see human suffering and exploitation in this then you need some screw tightened in your head.