Does Islam, in fact, Encourage Paedophilia?

PM,

What is your evidence that the Ancients allowed prepubescent sex too? Ephebolia is clearly teenagers only.

I think all these legal and social problems would be avoided if all govts. agreed to define paedophilia as 'sex with prepubescents'.

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[...Alhamdulillah, our Beloved fulfilled all these criteria...]

Yes, and he was a pedophile... so Alhamdulillah wasn't really that "sinless" or "Infallible" as you think... :)

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Naqshbandi,

I think you have made a commendable effort in bringing a difficult topic to the fore.

But before going further one must be claer on the fact that Islam only encourages sexual relationship between a male and a female. Whereas 'Pedophilia' in the going sense is usually thought of and taken as in the sense of Pedrasty, which would be inaccurate while we discuss this topic.

Islam is the religion of nature and common sense. The setting of age of consent as it is defined by the biological clock rather than an arbitrarily set age is common sense. The Western concept of age of consent was set to address the demands of the era when industrial revolution happened and manpower (both men and women) was needed to run the capitalist engine of production. Therefore early marriage was discusraged so that women would not start bearing children at an early age and become a less productive tool, from capitalist point of view. Of course this has brought the whole plathora of social ills with it like broken family structure, illegitimate children, unwed mothers and so on and so forth.

On the other hand Islam encourages early marriage i.e. marriage in early teens so that when a couple reaches its prime age i.e. around 35-40 their children are ready to leave the nest. That way a couple can have more financial freedom and less responsibilities at an age when they can enjoy it too. Now is this the common sense or delaying the marriage very close to the age when a women's biological clock is about to be turned off, is?

At psychological and anthropological level it is also a documented fact that as men mature, regardless of culture or social structure, they feel biologically more attracted to younger females of pubescent age. probably the reason is that as biological entities their genetic code stresses them to have such affiliation towards younger females in order to preserve the seed. A younger female has more chance to bear fruit and be more productive and have longer productive cycle. So I think when Islam sets the age of consent at the age of pubescence it has this human genetic attribute as its basis; which of course is common sense. Another reason for this allowable but apparent disparity between ages of men and women might have to do with the fact that human females have a limited productive cycle which in overwhelming cases is also coupled with the biological condition called 'frigidity'; at this stage and after that a woman cannot perform sexually at all. On the other hand a man has a longer productive cycle and he can enjoy the sexual experience at quite an older age as compared to their female counterparts.

This is simply common sense.

Re: # 54 PM

"But frigidity is hardly a widespread problem, and post menopausal women are known to enjoy sex as much as their younger counterparts"

I beg to disagree. The statistically gathered medical data suggests considerable decline in female's ability to enjoy sexual experience after menupause though frigidity is the ultimate condition. When I was doing reasearch for my Chowk article titled "Justice for Half a Man" I read about it extensively. I think one can also search the evidence on this assertion on google as well.

From common sense point of a female as a biological entity when loses her ability to reproduce, it also loses the "reward" aspect of sexual intercourse, anticipation of which attracts men and women towards each other in the first place. For this biological reason, I think, Islam also "allows" polygamy on part of men but not on part of females. Everytime I know some more scietific evidence it takes my breath away when I correlate it to my religion.

re. Naqshbandi #49:

Asif,
Yes, I do believe we're on the same page on the issue. I guess I was working on the understanding that ephebophilia was an attraction towards postpubescent teens, not pubescent ones (that is, those going through puberty.)

Most definitions I've seen have ephebophilia as an erotic/aesthetic (I prefer these terms to the more banal 'sexual') "attraction to adolescents." Going with this definiton, and accepting adoloscence as beginning after puberty (the medical definiton) ephebophilia in fact is an attraction to post-pubertal teenagers.

What evidence do I have that the ancients allowed paedophilia? Well, there wasn't a distinction made as far as I've read anywhere. Certainly, as I mentioned earlier, at least Arab homoerotic poetry idolized youth that hadn't yet sprouted facial hair. (Such youth could in fact be pubescent, but the attraction would not be ephebophilic.)

If I may comment on the general tenor of posts thus far, I think there is no distinction being made between a totally carnal attraction (lust) and a more wholesome erotic one, which is happy enough for platonic relationship (which, just to add a twist here, doesn't necessarily exclude a physical relationship)

The point is that it's quite possible that Muhammed married Ayesha at a pubescent age but eschewed sex till later. In any event, from all evidence, Ayesha was ANTYHING BUT emotionally or intellectually stunted by her youthful marriage. This is point completely lost on the 'liberal' moral brigade here!


Here's something I think you'll find interesting reading, Asif.

re. Urstruly #53:
Excellent post on the soico-econimic resons for the delay of marriage and upping of age-of-consent. However, I think you made the common error of equating reproductive maturity (or fertility) with sexual potency. You write:
"... human females have a limited productive cycle which in overwhelming cases is also coupled with the biological condition called 'frigidity'; at this stage and after that a woman cannot perform sexually at all."

But frigidity is hardly a widespread problem, and post menopausal women are known to enjoy sex as much as their younger counterparts.

Well, the people of his time, including his staunchest enemies didn't complain about it, so why should any Kanjaroon here do so (I did not say non-muslim but Kanjaroon: there IS a difference!) particularly when 'Aishah, due to this close relationship with Muhammad (peace be upon him), became a scholar amongst the Companions. Yes, such a marriage is completely disliked from a Western perspective, but from the Arab perspective it's not and never was.

But the KanjarOon agenda is to turn civilized societies into western types. The Westernised Kanjarrs encourage young girls into sexuality from an early age, but teache them nothing about responsibility and the importance of family. Hence, the large and ever-growing population of single-mothers, who experimented while still young, and suffered the consequences forever. So is realisation of natural sexual curiosities better in a single or married environment?

No wonder their society is going to the dogs & other Quadrapedophiles and the Secularoons, liberaloons types read: Kanjaroons) are of the opinion that nobody has any right to object to that as well.

Little by little the Kanjaroons try to encroach upon the sacred territory of religion...Right away they should be smacked & never taken prisoners. "Rationality & debate in such matters are always settled by life-nourishing events. Muslims must be trained & advised accordingly.

"Everytime I know some more scietific evidence it takes my breath away when I correlate it to my religion."


Urstruly, yeah, reading my horoscope for the day also takes my breath away when i correlate it with my life.

(rolling eyes icon)

18 Posted by Humsab on July 22, 2007 11:14:42 pm

Humsab,
I agree with you that no one should be allowed to dictate what others can do and whether some one is following all the rituals of a religion or not. In a free society we should be able to do what we want as long as we do not hurt any one else.

On a personal note, I would rather give all the food stuff to poor people (and there are plenty of them) than wasting it as part of Havan. I really do not care whether Guru ji performed Havan or not. On the other hand, others are free to do what they want.

Best regards my friend.

57:scout-new
Very witty & succinct comeback indeed.
I whole heartedly agree with you...though I might indulge in such a pursuit simply to rankle a few Islamophobes here & have fun.
Despite my agreement with Urstruly on many of his stances, I believe he should reflect on this some more. Seeking validation in such a manner is like confirming the Sunlight on the basis my shadow.

Science is a handmaiden (laundee) of Religion and it should be treated as such.

1. Age of consent does not guarantee that the consent is obtained, it only increases the probability that the individual girl would be mentally and physically strong to resist pressure- but that does not happen often.

2. consent to marriage in most of the patriarchal societies are enforced through parental and peer pressure. This is an ugly truth of these societies.

3. paedophilia was almost a norm in these patriachal societies. For females, the first menstruation has been the universally accepted sign for entry into women hood.

I would not get too worried about it- except that mullah gardi tries to justify his own paedophilia by referring to hadiths. Paedophilia is a crime in the modern times- that is the end to it!! And mullah gardi would not be allowed to turn us back into those 'golden' ages of universal paedophilia.

Hey KARISHNA,

you've conveniently avoided my request and question.

why don't you read and follow the post # 24 and 25 and tell me what you think.

THIS GOES for all of you.

Avoiding truth and slandering is easy but shows how shallow your upbringing was.

Jamil

Naqash, thanks for bringing up and discussing the issue honestly.
No doubt teens are sexually active all over the world but mostly that is amongst the teens...if older folks with money, influence or power have sex with these teens the relationship cart is tilted..the teen is exploited. As PM would assert, the teen might even enjoy it at the time but real life observation tells you long term he/she will feel violated, disturbed and in many cases not have the normal life. Most prostitutes have been violated at very young ages. even though few might grow up to use this profession to make good money and live happily ever after, most are trapped, exploted and oppressed for life.

even if a young teen say 13 yr old is physically mature enough to have sex, it does not mean she can a)give birth to children without risking her own life (remember wives dying giving birth to firt child not so long ago...but we don't hear about it anymore) b)have a serious relationship as a wive and dispense the responsibilities of being a wive, daughter in law, sister in law etc etc.

as for objection on aisha's age...(I think it is not that she might have been 9 at the time...that can be easily excused as a 7th century Arbian culture)..it comes mainly from the fact that many muslims consider it as a role model marriage that should be emmulated even today.

you said "Islamic theology has specific criteria which are necessary for a Prophet to fulfill."
I am puzzled, did prophethood of Mohamamd or Islamic theology came first? would there be anything called islamic theology if no Mohammad?

On the other hand Islam encourages early marriage i.e. marriage in early teens so that when a couple reaches its prime age i.e. around 35-40 their children are ready to leave the nest. That way a couple can have more financial freedom and less responsibilities at an age when they can enjoy it too.
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hahahaha never heard something like this before...this is common sense?

reason people married young in middle ages and before was the low life expectancy....very understandable...financial freedom..haha

on the flip side it does make sense...if urstruly was married at 12, had finished having kids at 18, married them off by 13, he would be a free man at the young age of 35.:)

just for reality purpose since a lot of you have your head stuck i the sand.

Youngest mother.

http://www.snopes.com/pregnant/medina.asp

also, in the article read the fact that 'average age of first menstruation in the US is 12 1/2 years of age'
now that is an average, can be less or a more.