Does Islam, in fact, Encourage Paedophilia?

another thing..urstruly sahib..make up your mind. Is it common sense or order of almighty?

FV's iLog puts the issue in its correct perspective.

Re: # 67

hahaha, what a douchbag. the guy clearly does not know what he is talking about. he is just being paraded by the people who have an agenda.

i dare all of you to listen to the following and reply back if you have any sense of truth. if you still have something bad to say then i will love to hear it:

http://www.hearislam.com/index.php?action=showpic&cat=4&pic=221

or :

simply go to www.hearislam.com and search for : Ayesha Defended

this audio is from Yousaf Estes. convert to islam.

lets see how you guys reply after listening to it all.

Jamil

Islam Does in fact allow and encourage paedophilia:

Evidence is presented here:

Allah allows men to use slave girls as young as 6 for sex

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9kp_D_snhQE

6 year old girls are pre-pubescent not post-pubescent.

Evidence is enough to blow this Islami false propaganda to pieces......

Kaboom!

re. Urstruly #55

"From common sense point of a female as a biological entity when loses her ability to reproduce, it also loses the "reward" aspect of sexual intercourse, anticipation of which attracts men and women towards each other in the first place. For this biological reason, I think, Islam also "allows" polygamy on part of men but not on part of females."

(sighhh!) Another reductionist!
Urstruly miaN, us humans are, while limited by biological imperatives, not slaves to it. Your 'reasoning' here is hopelessly reductionist and inordinately inductive! Yes, human females do not have a biological incentive to have sex after menopause. But no, that doesn't mean that they lost the desire to have sex. Why? Because sex is so much more than mere biological-imperative fulfillment. To suggest that they lose the desire because they lose the ability to procreate is to fall into your own inductive trap.

If you're interested in the facts and aren't into older women, you might simply google out "sex after menopause". Go ahead. Here's something from a medical site that that search threw up:

Is Reduced Estrogen After Menopause the Culprit Behind Lowered Sexual Desire?
Researchers at the New England Research Institute and the University of Massachusetts Medical School have discovered an amazing fact. While many of us naturally assume that the drop in estrogen production experienced during menopause is responsible for the postmenopausal decrease in sexual desire often experienced by postmenopausal women, the fact is that key factors influencing who has sexual issues include individual attitudes towards sexuality, overall health and marital status play a significant role in determining who experiences sexual issues during menopause and that estrogen is not related to changes in sexual response in postmenopausal women. Researchers found only one issue related to decreased estrogen production during menopause – painful sexual intercourse.

In any case, it's interesting that you find in your 'science' biological validation of your religious sanction for four wives. I was unaware that the ratio of male and female in any section of the general population is greater than parity (1:1), which would be a requirement for polygamy to 'succeed' without resulting in an army of bachelors. (hmm... maybe that's recognition of male gayness? :-) )

i dont think there is a practice of consorting with the young with religious sanction in the practice of islam. so overall the issue is mostly of muslims "shame" about having to defend a prophet who ate a kaccha amb...pretty much an irrelevant issue.

re. dullahbhatti:
"As PM would assert, the teen might even enjoy it at the time but real life observation tells you long term he/she will feel violated, disturbed and in many cases not have the normal life."

PM would also like to assert that the 'real life observations' you speak of are of a world in which meaning is attached to events extrinsically and oftentimes well 'after the fact'. Most kids, if told that their parents abused them (non-sexually) by having them massaged their legs, will believe it if it suddenly became an extremely taboo and shameful thing, even if the child might have enjoyed or been indifferent to it, and ESPECIALLY if the "child", now grown up, is looking for someone to blame for their not making it big in life.

"Most prostitutes have been violated at very young ages. even though few might grow up to use this profession to make good money and live happily ever after, most are trapped, exploited and oppressed for life."

Again, until the shroud of shame is removed from the 'violations', and sex is somewhat rationalized, many of those violated will indeed take to prostitution. OTOH, how many BOYS take to prostitution? Studies show that there is a lot more intergenerational homosexual activity than hetero. Studies also show, despite unsubstantiated claims from the child-abuse industry, that an overwhelming majority of boys in such relationships carry NO scars, whether or not they become beneficiaries of million dollar lawsuits. (I'm not talking of rape, of course, although even here, the findings are surprising)

Re: # 72 PM

I do not see any difference between what I assert and the excerpts from the website that that you have posted. I do recognize that 50% or more of the sex is mental. But on the other hand we must also recognize the fact that women do not need arousal to have sex as compared to men. So a women can "perform" even when that 50% mental state is not available. How do you think the phrase "faking it" came into the jargon.

But the point we are discussing here is the biological and sexual affinity that older middle aged men (and I must stress that by men I mean ALL MEN ) feel towards younger and specially pubescent girls. The so called 50% mindset as mentioned above may not help them visualize a platonic part of relationship between them and young girl but other 50% do tell them about a purely biological or sexual relationship. This is a fact that has been confirmed by our own social observation and confirmed by anthropological and psychological studies.

Having said that, I must also stress that Islam does not classify human attributes and acts as 'natural' or 'un-natural'. In Islam everything is natural, because humans act the way they act because it is coded in their genetic make up. But Islam classifies human traits, acts and attributes as 'forbidden (haram)' and 'allowed (halal)'. Hence having sex with ones (own) wife is halal but someone else's wife is haram - even though biologically or mechanically there is no difference between the two. Having sex with a boy is haram in all circumstances and so it is with a farm animal. Similarly, having sex with a pubescent girl who is consensually and legally married according to well known cutom in society is halal but having sex with a pubescent girl who is not married, regardless of consent, is haram.

There are social and biological reasons for everything that is either halal or haram. Common sense, empirical, biological, and scientific evidence does confirm that such classification is correct. It does address the "nature" of man. Hence Islam is Religion of Nature (of man). Deen-e-Fitrat.

Urstruly:
As a service to you and your 'aunty', I am reprinting another Q&A from the site I referenced earlier:
----begin quote----
What You Believe About Sex and Menopause is What You Get?
A key finding, by the researchers, is that the only women to experience loss of sexual desire during the postmenopausal period, were only those women who believed that loss of interest in sex is a normal part of the aging process.

----end quote----

You're welcome!

Here's another one:

Under Sharia law men have the right to have sex with infants
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gfhZpW_tGbc

From 1:43 it talks about getting pleasure from little PRE-pubescent girls.....

PM sahib, my sentence was not structured properly. I was attributing only first part of sentence (in spirit only not exactly) "the teen might even enjoy it at the time" to you. rest was my comment.
I agree with you most of it is because of social shame. If it was socially acceptable they won't feel that way or feel less badly but then that is true about every crime and wrond-doing...if we make beating socially desirable I might give you a smile after you slap me or invite people for slapping sessions are nearby starbucks or you might thank the robber after he puts knife on your neck and takes away your wallet.
but we are not there yet and for good reason.

Most of us do things (within our own control and with our own will) that we sometimes repent in later years. A 12 yr old boy or girl having sex with an older, more powerful and influencial person may feel good or enjoy it now, they are within their right to feel violated later on when they grow up and realize the full implications of it. The severeness of exploitation is not lessened because he/she might have given his/her naive 'yes' at the time.

Asif:

That was a courageous, objective look at a highly controversial subject. Using highly loaded term such as Paedophilia is, in my opinion, inapporpriate without taking into consideration the social mores of the time and place. The age of sexual consent has varied over ages and sexual activity, if not the age of consent, seems to be coming down once again. Not too long ago, there was this case of a six year old who was alleged to be killed by her parents; the parents tried to make her look as much sexually attractive as possible. The proliferation of sex-related TV shows during all times of the day now make children sex concious at a very early age.

I do not recall if the Quran gives any age of consent or marriage; so the issue of the age of consent really is related to the life of the Prophet which, in my opinion, is indicative of the social mores of Arabia at that time. And as many have pointed out, child marriages may be illegal in India but are not uncommon in rural areas, especially in places like Rajasthan.

dullahbhatti sahib: I'm really not sure what argument you are proferring. You start off averring my position that "most of it is because of social shame". From there, you go on to turn the argument a little on its head by suggesting that social sanction or encouragement, can have the same effect, only in reverse. I'm not sure I agree with you here. Nor do I see the point of your irony at the end of the middle para.

Then, in the third para, you seem to revert to the earlier argument of 'realization of full implications' later in life, forgetting that most of these implications are in fact suggested by society. Moreover, you assume "severe exploitation" in all or most intergenerational relationships; whereas, especially in the current culture of child-sex hysteria, it may be the adolescent who wields more power, if not influence.

Re: # 78

Dost,

You are an idiot. Here is the issue..

'it was not uncommon for powerful men to have much younger wives'

Is it common to follow the example of a powerful man who has sex with much younger woman? We can thank him for the revelations (let's say that they were indeed geniune cmmunications from the creator of the universe) about pork and alcohol BUT SHOULD WE FOLLOW THIS MAN AS A PERFECT EXAMPLE.

'It was the Arab custom that if you called someone your brother, you did not marry his daughter. And I remember reading that Aisha's father initially objected to the Prophet's proposal on this ground. The Prophet was however able to convince him that they were only brothers-in-islam and therefor there was nothing wrong in this proposal.'

Think about this: it is a universal tradition not to marry the daughter of a man who came out from the same womb as you. Why is that? It's just a common understanding.. nothing sacred about it. Uncles and neices can have sex and raise good children. But then there is this tradition..

Same way, if you have this tradition of assigining random men as brothers so that you that their daughters can play in front of you and your daughters can play in front of them without fear of being ogled/fondled.. and your 'brother' in such a way never utters intentions to marry your daughter because of this brother tradition.. THEN YOU GO ON DISREGARDING YOUR DREAMS ABOUT MARRYING THE GIRL YOU HAVE SWORN NOT TO TOUCH.

Again, nothing wrong with fucking your neice or mother or sister.. all silly traditions, but future generations tend get confused about whether to follow the main man from Allah or not.

krishan, mohar and others:

Your criticism of Prophet Mohammad because of Aisha's age is misplaced. It was quite proper for a father to give away his daughter in marriage at a young age and it was not uncommon for powerful men to have much younger wives nor for the child's parents to happily do so for the child's future happiness (remember, paying attention to sexual needs of women is a relatively recent concept).

You would have been on a firmer ground if you had objected to the Prophet marrying his best friend's daughter. It was the Arab custom that if you called someone your brother, you did not marry his daughter. And I remember reading that Aisha's father initially objected to the Prophet's proposal on this ground. The Prophet was however able to convince him that they were only brothers-in-islam and therefor there was nothing wrong in this proposal.

OK, I HAVE GIVEN ALL OF YOU AMPLE TIME TO RESEARCH MY POSTS:

#24 , 25, 61, 68.

SINCE NONE OF YOU HAVE GUTS TO REPLY and HAVE SHOW BLIND HATE THIS PROVES THAT YOU HAVE A BIAS AGENDA AND THUS HAVE NO VALIDITY.

HAHAHAHAH, THANK YOU LOOSERS FOR PROVING THAT YOU ARE NOTHING BUT FULL OF IT.

Good luck trying to spread hate IT ONLY CREATE CURIOSITY IN SEEKING THE TRUTH SO GO AHEAD. LIE YOUR HEARTS OUT AND THE ONES WHO REALLY SEEK TRUTH WILL GET IT ... THANKS TO ALL OF YOU WHO ARE SPREADING LIES.

-Jamil, yes its all in caps. victorious caps. =p.