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An Empowering Verdict!

Dilawar Syed July 20, 2007

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listing 16-32   1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11

#15 Posted by TahirQazi on July 21, 2007 7:30:07 am

What a misguided optimism in the article!

The way people of Pakistan, from ordinary citizen to judiciary, had flocked around current military chief when he grabbed civilian power is reminiscent of the times of previous military dictator and as a matter of fact, of those who were before him too. Chief Justice who has come to face General Musharraf as an adversary had once conferred legitimacy upon military rule.

Judiciary is the arcane pillar of democracy. Neither should it involve in sloganeering nor sociopolitical activism for it better suits administration and other political institutions. Pakistani judiciary has shown interest in both, unfortunately.

CJ victory is symbolically important but anybody who thinks of CJ reinstatement is a sign of fundamental change for democracy in Pakistan lives in fools paradise. Administration and opposition in Pakistan almost always wore same stripes and have always been involved in politics for gaining power at the expense of political philosophy.

Democracy is never a product of one issue like CJ. It is an attitude, a mind-set and social frame work that develops alongside socioeconomic fabric of the society. I am not sure how CJ’s protests have fundamentally altered any of the socioeconomic dynamics of the country that forms the bedrock of tradition, law and institutions?
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#16 Posted by tahmed32 on July 21, 2007 7:46:24 am
Re: # 15 you say "Democracy is never a product of one issue like CJ. I am not sure how CJ’s protests have fundamentally altered any of the socioeconomic dynamics of the country that forms the bedrock of tradition, law and institutions?"

The support for the CJ, paid for by the lives of peaceful demonstrators on May 12, are what has defeated the military dictator. He knows quite well that the Pakistan army itself will refuse to fire at peaceful demonstrators - which is what happened with Ayub Khan. He could read this writing on the wall three months ago.

Also: the importance of issues on which the CJ took a stand - habeas corpus, free and fair elections - are fundamental to a civilized society. So rest assured that the people of Pakistan are more "enlightened" than the self-proclaimed "enlightened moderates" on the one hand and the islamic fanatics on the other.
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#17 Posted by tahmed32 on July 21, 2007 7:50:39 am
Re: # 14 joieya: The months ahead should indeed prove significant. Musharraf is in a sense cornered - if he steps down from power, he faces a barrage of lawsuits; and if he "stays the course", he faces forcible removal by his own generals (like Ayub Khan). The best he can hope for it seems is to seek immunity from future prosecution in return from doing what he had promised he would do 9 years or so ago - play the honest broker in the next elections.
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#18 Posted by TahirQazi on July 21, 2007 8:18:34 am

Post 16 – tahmaed32:

Dear tahmed32:

Yes. You make fair points in your post. Thank you.

But the real focus of my post that you might have overlooked was the last line:

I am not sure how CJ’s protests have fundamentally altered any of the socioeconomic dynamics of the country that forms the bedrock for tradition, law and institutions.

Would you kindly elaborate how current events impact or are indicators of socio-economic dynamics of the country? I think (and studies support it) that it is the socioeconomic underpinning that drives cultural and attitudinal changes in a society.

If such indicators of sustainable change are there that I am not much aware of, it will be a pleasant surprise and a much desired reason for optimism.

Kind regards.
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#19 Posted by dost_mittar on July 21, 2007 8:22:41 am
All the celebrations and congratulations are justified. This is indeed the first time in Pakistan's history that the judiciary has passed a judgement effectively against the highest authority in the country, and that too a military dictator. So, what's next?

1. The civil society has tasted blood and it is not going to stay quiet now. If Musharraf insists upon getting elected by the Assembly before dissolution or insists upon wearing the uniform, someone is bound to raise the issue in the Court.

2. Musharraf too is probably not too unhappy with the decision. He has no doubt realised that sacking the CJ was a mistake, which had to be corrected. The way in which the govt. withdrew the most serious charges against the CJ even before the court decided shows that it was pretty much prepared for this outcome.

3. Musharraf is probably now putting most, if not all, of his eggs in the Benazir basket. The word on the street is that she has agreed to his remaining President, whether before or after the elections.

So, this phase of military rule is over. But does it mean an end to the cycles of army rule followed by civilians followed by army and so on? I am not so sure. I think that nothing happens in Pakistan without the acquiescence of the public opinion led by the civilian elite. The Court was able to take the decision it did because the successful lawyers' rallies had demonstrated that the army had lost its support. But if the politicians muck up again and another knight in shining arm emerges in the next round, will the court not again comply with the "doctrine of necessity"? Only time will tell!
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#20 Posted by jang on July 21, 2007 8:35:58 am
IMO real change will be brought by the mulla. the "civil" society is too entreched in the corruption to undergo any real change.
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#21 Posted by aquaris on July 21, 2007 9:23:19 am


ERRR.....

it has given MUSHARRAF the much needed breathing space, in which he can re-collect his forces.

as inspite of the VICTORY, people have lost a much needed rallying point.



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#22 Posted by tahmed32 on July 21, 2007 9:41:08 am
institutional changes, with the verdict itself being the first and most fundamental institutional change (i.e. the all important change in Governance) that has already taken place.

No longer can Musharraf hope to issue orders at will without being challenged by a constitutional co-equal body that has the additional strength of legitimacy and political support from the people !!

The question therefore is: Will this change prove lasting? there is every reason to hope that it will. And if it does, then this will prove to be Pakistan's equivalent of the Glorious Revolution of 1688 in England (when the autocrat was forced to accept the Bill of Rights, thus paving the way for UK to become a society ruled by laws rather than by autocrats).

It is now universally recognized that a proper Governance framework is key to further institutional development. So, if this verdict proves lasting, there is indeed reason to celebrate. Even if it takes many more years before the ill effects of dictatorships (religious extremism, dysfunctional ordinances, political uncertainty) as well as the on-going task of modernizing the public sector.
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#23 Posted by tahmed32 on July 21, 2007 9:47:13 am
Institutional Change, with the Verdict itself the first and most fundamental institutional change (i.e. the all important change in Governance) that has already taken place.

No longer can Musharraf hope to issue orders at will without being challenged by a constitutional co-equal body that has the additional strength of legitimacy and political support from the people !!

The question therefore is: Will this change prove lasting? there is every reason to hope that it will. And if it does, then this will prove to be Pakistan's equivalent of the Glorious Revolution of 1688 in England (when the autocrat was forced to accept the Bill of Rights, thus paving the way for UK to become a society ruled by laws rather than by autocrats).

It is now universally recognized that a proper Governance framework is key to further institutional development. So, if this verdict proves lasting, there is indeed reason to celebrate. Even if it takes many more years before the ill effects of dictatorships (religious extremism, dysfunctional ordinances, political uncertainty) as well as the on-going task of modernizing the public sector.
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#24 Posted by tahmed32 on July 21, 2007 9:54:57 am
Tahir Qazi #18 (Please ignore my response #22 and #23 which I messed up, and replace it with this post)

Your post #18 implies the following sequence of cause and effect:

Verdict LEADS TO Socio-Economic Change LEADS TO Institutional Change.

The proper sequence in my view is as follows:

Socio-Economic Change LEADS TO Institutional Change.

And the Verdict itself is the first and most fundamental institutional change (i.e. the all important change in Governance) that has already taken place. And the mere fact that even this verdict would not have meant anything without the outpouring of popular support for the Chief Justice, indicates that the Socio-Economic milieu (reflecting a large middle class, an increasingly pluralistic society, a population used to earning its living through honest work and possessing many admirable qualities like hospitality, no real problems of alcoholism that afflict many troubled societies like Russia or many third world countries like Mexico as I have seen first hand) of Pakistan is in fact much healthier than many people give it credit.

No longer can Musharraf hope to issue orders at will without being challenged by a constitutional co-equal body that has the additional strength of legitimacy and political support from the people !!

The question therefore is: Will this change prove lasting? there is every reason to hope that it will. And if it does, then this will prove to be Pakistan's equivalent of the Glorious Revolution of 1688 in England (when the autocrat was forced to accept the Bill of Rights, thus paving the way for UK to become a society ruled by laws rather than by autocrats).

It is now universally recognized that a proper Governance framework is key to further institutional development. So, if this verdict proves lasting, there is indeed reason to celebrate. Even if it takes many more years before the ill effects of dictatorships (religious extremism, dysfunctional ordinances, political uncertainty) as well as the on-going task of modernizing the public sector.
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#25 Posted by tahmed32 on July 21, 2007 9:59:43 am
Re: # 21 what forces? what breathing space?
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#26 Posted by tahmed32 on July 21, 2007 10:01:01 am
Re: # 19 "Only time will tell"

Inshallah!! :-)
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#27 Posted by hamidm2 on July 21, 2007 10:05:00 am

tahmed mian,

....... i never said that this is not a good thing but that it might be a phyrric victory
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#28 Posted by tahmed32 on July 21, 2007 10:10:10 am
Re: # 27 hamid braader: please dont use the word "pyrrhic" inappropriately. While 42 lives were lost on May 12 on the road to this Verdict, the term pyrrhic implies bloodshed at a much larger scale.

Perhaps you meant "ephemeral"?? (which you are permitted to do if you enjoy being pessimistic).
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#29 Posted by TahirQazi on July 21, 2007 10:18:31 am
Re: Post 24

Dear tahmed32:

I agree that change is not a sudden event it is a process that take time. Lets hope things will change and wait to see what survives the test of time. Good talking to you. Thanks a lot.

Regards.
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#30 Posted by hamidm2 on July 21, 2007 10:20:08 am


tahmed,

.... sorry, i didn't quite say why this might be a phyrric victory ...

...... i think the mullahs, who have jumped on the cj's bandwagon, will gain the most from this 'victory' .... while the rest of the politicians squabble over what to do next, the mullahs will throw the rotten carcasses from the lal masjid and other fresh bodies from the daily suicide bommbings on to this bandwagon and run off with it ...... liaqat baloch was the only politician on join in the clebrations, and fazloo and qazi hussain ahmed were on the talk show circuit claiming it to be a victory for allah and his dead virgins .......

....... in any case, there is no reason not to celebrate - it is step in the right direction even though the future is still quite uncertain .........
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