Moral Bankruptcy of Political Leadership in Pakistan

#69 Posted by khurram,

She watches the ticker on the news channels ... :)

Sattar Bhai, I think you got 'em. But you always do run away from proving the validity of your prophet, but like u stated very aptly - is not the topic of this discussion. Good post

tahmed,

You seem to be mischaracterizing the issue here.

But first, don’t get too obsessed with labels. By using the term “humanist”, I was referring to your claims suggesting you value innocent lives. This, as I pointed out, is not accurate. And no, I am not asking you to prove anything to anyone.

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Your “humanist” attitude is negated by your support for Hiroshima and Nagasaki bombings. If I recall correctly, your position was something along the lines that … since they attacked US, it was ok for US to bomb them.

I drew your attention to the fact that … you were confusing they with them. While they were Japanese military, trained to attack and to win wars, them were Japanese civilians: women, children, elderly, young couples, toddlers. It seemed that you failed to appreciate this distinction. And that was the travesty of your views.

Note that in addition of those instantly killed, hundreds of thousands suffered immeasurably due to trauma, illnesses, starvation, injuries, and much, much more. God only knows how many of their generations will be born with birth defects, physical and mental handicaps, life long illnesses … and much, much more.

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I further pointed out that your view has much in common with that of suicide bombers … who, when they cannot fight an army, resort to blowing up innocent civilians. Once again, you did not comment. That was further travesty of your views.

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Ironically, you were cheer-leading the US war on Iraq also. You brilliantly predicted the exact days it would take the US to capture Baghdad. You tooted your horn when your prediction was met. And since then, Iraq has descended into a morass, with immeasurable human suffering. But you did not (could not?) predict the aftermath that followed.

Sahib, it is easy to win wars, which is perhaps all that you know. But winning peace is a lot more tricky, and something you know little about. Your short, snappy sentences on "democracy" do not cut it. Human existence is too complicated to be ruled by this “bumper sticker” philosophy of yours.

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And you are mistaken if you think I am pushing my belief here. I have mainly (perhaps only) responded to the issue of my faith when the issue was raised by others. People’s inquiries have ranged from genuine questions to belittling ridicule, and I responded accordingly.

Note that you yourself have taken uncalled-for shots at Ahamdis … but are quick to respond with “to you, your way; to me, mine” when I respond to your comments. Here again you display incompetence and an overwhelming sense of self-righteousness. Note that once again you are repeatedly raising the issue of Mirza, while cleverly slipping in your verdict … even as no one has raised the issue. This seems to be an obsession of yours, more than anyone else’s.

dawa-i-dil,
Where are you getting all this news from?
Please post links. Thanks

AlephNull:65
If you, or anyone else, have heard this joke before then you might enjoy this a bit more "in-context"

This thief who in the dead of night had broken into this house
was busy picking up his loot when he tripped and was caught by the man sleeping there.

Once caught, the thief pleaded for mercy..he would be let go if he (the thief) would do a lube job on the owner.

Well, as you can imagine , the thief did find it a bit disgusting but still not too
harsh a punishment..especially when he was also allowed to take the loot.

Once the thief was done with the reaming ,as if dreaming , the man from under him, very coquettishly inquired : " Darling! when will you be back again".
____________________________________________________________
Can you, or others, spot some context here?

#65 AlephNull: are you saying I am wrong? or merely letting of some smoke??

sattar #26 Where did you read me making claims to be a humanist? I dont deal with labels, and I am not running for popularity contests that I have to prove something to strangers on chowk.

And not willing to accept "to you be your way, and to me be mine" as a way to resolve religious differences, and frustrated in my refusal to engage in further "discussion" in your aggressive attempts to get the world to acknowledge your "prophet" mirza, you now pull Nagasaki and Hiroshima out of thin air and try to force a discussion by misrepresenting what I wrote.

You are over-clever and a half!! However, while lying and deceipt on your part may impress a loser like echoboom, any intelligent individual will see through it. When there is something about Pakistan that you wish to discus other than pushing your prophet mirza (where my answer remains as provided above), and when you have overcome your tendancy to be rude and deceiptful, then perhaps we can talk. Till then - have a nice day.

tahmed32 #18

{{And the army's job is to protect the Constitution, and make sure that elected rulers dont then try to overstay their term.}}

and #59

{{What I stated as being the proper role of the armed forces (i.e. to defend the Constitution, not overthrow it) is in fact part of the generally accepted role of the armed forces in any country!!}}

Amen to that pair of posts, Janaab Tahmed! Thank you for that stunning exhibition of the military (OK, military-descended) mind in action! What a crying shame that some bloody civilians just won’t get the point :-(.

Justice Iqbal summoned NAB DG on 3rd August.....

hai..hai...hai...SC nai phar dee sab kee....

Breaking News....

justice Ifthikhar said today ..in hearing PML(N) top leader Hashmi..prison petition that...when he has completed his punishment ...government could not put him in jail...so..on friday..his petition will be re listened...

hope ..that ..he will be released soon....

baja dee Ifti nai sub ki....

aur Dictator gannai kai khait mai baitha Chuppa laga raha hai....

banneditem #29 Those, I am sure you will admit upon reflection, are very weak responses you provide when challenged on your contention that Pakistani people are not fit to elect their own rulers. Please re-read my post #18 and GT's post #35, because I think you need to reflect on your way of thinking.

e.g. you are simply incorrect when you say that "Bush did not get re-elected because of one state Ohio". That state would have meant nothing if he did not already enjoy a strong electoral support. And thus what I said remains true - if Americans can make a mistake by electing a disaster like Bush to be President, then Pakistanis can be allowed to make a few mistakes too - if they wish to elect a man who flashes the Quran, that is their right. As long as they can learn the hard way and remove the maulvi from power when his term is up and if they chose to do so.

And please dont think that your naukar's son is genetically inferior (as your post implies) and incapable of reaching your own lofty ideals. Such arrogance merely reflects very superficial thinking.

GT #36 I see we independently provided the same response to banneditem. Great minds think alike! :-)

masadi: After responding to your post #41 below, I notice there are two more posts from you commenting on what I wrote. I didnt read them because I am not going to waste more time with you.

masadi #41 So, you think that " The Army's job is to stay in the barracks and defend the country's borders from external aggression, period. "!! This reveals your ignorance, which no amount of big talk and low insults on your part can cover up.

What I stated as being the proper role of the armed forces (i.e. to defend the Constitution, not overthrow it) is in fact part of the generally accepted role of the armed forces in any country!!

Here, e.g., is the oath taken by anyone joining the US Army:

"I, _____, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic;"

Bhuttos return,

This is probably the right time for benazir to come back to pakistan and take on the reigns.

It was her father who declared that pakistan will have the bomb and they will eat grass. Both have been achieved, and like a true daughter, she should rule from now on.

The only real hero of pakistan is Zulfi, he promised and he delivered.

Again it was zulfi who presided over the partition of pakistan, it is he who recognized Bangladesh. It will be another bhuttos turn to deliver POK to india, NWFP to afghanistan, and retire in sindh.

Ahmer,

You have hit the nail on the head. By definition no political party can have an ideology in pakistan. The touch stone is simple, is there a communist party in pakistan.

It is an islamic republic that did not have any independence heroes.

Nothing can be done about pakistan now, it will become a jihadic failed state.