Ahmer Muzammil July 30, 2007
#1 Posted by banneditem on July 31, 2007 11:09:21 am
Link
There is a saying; smile and the whole world smiles, cry and you are all alone. Similarly people forget the good things that Musharraf has done for the country and remember the bad things. People make mistakes all the time, so what if Musharraf slipped a few times.
Here is an excerpt from the above mentioned article.
"Pakistan's economy has grown rapidly, expanding at an average rate of 7% over the past five years. An ambitious privatization program, fueled by gulf-country investments and led by Prime Minister Shaukat Aziz, a former Citibank banker, is widely regarded as the reason for that growth. Total direct investment reached $6 billion in the past fiscal year, up from $4.5 billion in the 2006 fiscal year. The U.S. has also funneled billions of dollars in military and economic assistance to the country since the Sept. 11 attacks.
But those benefits haven't reached the majority of Pakistanis and inflation remains high at 7.7%. Political instability also threatens economic gains. Standard and Poor's recently lowered its outlook on Pakistan's credit rating."
There is a saying; smile and the whole world smiles, cry and you are all alone. Similarly people forget the good things that Musharraf has done for the country and remember the bad things. People make mistakes all the time, so what if Musharraf slipped a few times.
Here is an excerpt from the above mentioned article.
"Pakistan's economy has grown rapidly, expanding at an average rate of 7% over the past five years. An ambitious privatization program, fueled by gulf-country investments and led by Prime Minister Shaukat Aziz, a former Citibank banker, is widely regarded as the reason for that growth. Total direct investment reached $6 billion in the past fiscal year, up from $4.5 billion in the 2006 fiscal year. The U.S. has also funneled billions of dollars in military and economic assistance to the country since the Sept. 11 attacks.
But those benefits haven't reached the majority of Pakistanis and inflation remains high at 7.7%. Political instability also threatens economic gains. Standard and Poor's recently lowered its outlook on Pakistan's credit rating."
#2 Posted by tahmed32 on July 31, 2007 11:17:22 am
banneditem: The fact that the economy grew 7% is not a sufficient condition for a man to demand another extension to his unelected stay in power. This would be true even if Musharraf had been a model ruler which - after his shenanigans over the years (the latest being his shenanigans on May 12 and his permitting lal masjid maulvis to intimidate Islamabad residents month after month) - is hardly the case.
Pakistanis have a right to elect their leaders and to replace them if they wish after they have served their term.
Pakistanis have a right to elect their leaders and to replace them if they wish after they have served their term.
#3 Posted by zeemax on July 31, 2007 11:30:32 am
#2 Posted by tahmed32,
You're off-track. Post 9/11, approx $ 65 billion has flown into Pakistan through aid, logistical support from US, fiscal space through re-scheduling, privatisations, debt-issues, plus all trade sanctions removed.
Compare that with how the country survived in the 90s and your eyes will pop, when it was sanctioned to the hilt and with $ 500 million to manage everything with. Still it managed a growth of around 4-5% or so ...
You give me $ 65 billion to spend, and I'll show you what Pakistan can become.
You're off-track. Post 9/11, approx $ 65 billion has flown into Pakistan through aid, logistical support from US, fiscal space through re-scheduling, privatisations, debt-issues, plus all trade sanctions removed.
Compare that with how the country survived in the 90s and your eyes will pop, when it was sanctioned to the hilt and with $ 500 million to manage everything with. Still it managed a growth of around 4-5% or so ...
You give me $ 65 billion to spend, and I'll show you what Pakistan can become.
#4 Posted by zeemax on July 31, 2007 11:31:25 am
... I missed reverse-capital flight in the inflows.
#5 Posted by masadi on July 31, 2007 11:36:34 am
tahmed writes "Pakistanis have a right to elect their leaders and to replace them if they wish after they have served their term"
A supporter of colonization (tahmed) clamoring against dictatorship and for democracy and the "Pakistanis". What a damn hypocrite this person is: tell this voting stuff to the Americans you miserable fcuk, who have prevented any viable political institutions from developing in this country through their occupation force, aka the Pakistan Army, they have wheeled and dealed with all dictators in Pakistan, used them for ulterior motive, fcuked up Pakistan, and then dumped them when need be using just such moralizing as you are doing. You need to be dragged through the streets of Pakistan by its people, that will be of greater benefit to this country than any "voting" at this stage
A supporter of colonization (tahmed) clamoring against dictatorship and for democracy and the "Pakistanis". What a damn hypocrite this person is: tell this voting stuff to the Americans you miserable fcuk, who have prevented any viable political institutions from developing in this country through their occupation force, aka the Pakistan Army, they have wheeled and dealed with all dictators in Pakistan, used them for ulterior motive, fcuked up Pakistan, and then dumped them when need be using just such moralizing as you are doing. You need to be dragged through the streets of Pakistan by its people, that will be of greater benefit to this country than any "voting" at this stage
#6 Posted by tahmed32 on July 31, 2007 11:37:04 am
zeemax: I started where that track ends - Even if Musharraf can be credited for the 7% growth rate, he still does not have a right to demand that he take away the rights of the Pakistani people. That is what I was saying.
#7 Posted by abu_safwaan on July 31, 2007 11:38:52 am
Tahmed Sahab,
Problem with u liberals is that just like the mullah ur outrage is selective. When state 'establishes its writ' on asma jehnagir u r all up in arms and let me say that justifiably so, but when the same state unleashes all its might on innocent unarmed children to capture 50 terrorist they end up killing hundreds of innocent kids..but thats OK because those kids originated from mothers that are not cool enuff to show there armpits n cleevages. For the love of GOD grow a heart
Problem with u liberals is that just like the mullah ur outrage is selective. When state 'establishes its writ' on asma jehnagir u r all up in arms and let me say that justifiably so, but when the same state unleashes all its might on innocent unarmed children to capture 50 terrorist they end up killing hundreds of innocent kids..but thats OK because those kids originated from mothers that are not cool enuff to show there armpits n cleevages. For the love of GOD grow a heart
#8 Posted by tahmed32 on July 31, 2007 11:48:25 am
masadi: The fact that I think you are a nut when you think that the "US elite" is behind every problem on earth does not make me a supporter of colonization.
If Pakistani dictators had any character, they would have respected the constitution, and the US (as well as the rest of the world) would in that case be dealing with an elected leader.
Both these concepts may represent out-of-the-box thinking for someone like you who is obsessed with blaming the US for everything.
If Pakistani dictators had any character, they would have respected the constitution, and the US (as well as the rest of the world) would in that case be dealing with an elected leader.
Both these concepts may represent out-of-the-box thinking for someone like you who is obsessed with blaming the US for everything.
#9 Posted by Urstruly on July 31, 2007 11:55:59 am
I think if Bezamir is "elected" by NaPak fouj as a PM and imposed on Pakistan as the custodian of American interests upon people of Pakistan, the people of Pakistan will not take it lying down this time. Clearly the result would be no different than the Shia Sunni divide in Iraq and the resultant civil war. Clearly NaPak fouj will keep doing the dirty work for americans by killing innocent citizens of Pakistan under Bezamir but due to the reaction of the militant freedom fighters the PPP supporters and Liberal Fascists will have to organize themselves into militias and death squads. So the question is will they have testicular fortutude to face an enemy which has made the monkeys out of Napak fouj and the whole western army combined??
#10 Posted by tahmed32 on July 31, 2007 11:56:42 am
abu_safwan: I think Musharraf badly mishandled lal masjid (per my post below) and that hardly implies that I am condoing the deaths of anyone (let alone children) in lal masjid. If Musharraf had done his job as chief executive, he would have never permitted the maulvis to take the law in their own hands to begin with. He would never have permitted a place of worship used as an arsenal.
And please dont moralize to me by saying "have a heart".
btw, I am not sure what you mean by "liberal". Could you please define it so I can see if I fit the category or not. Thanks.
And please dont moralize to me by saying "have a heart".
btw, I am not sure what you mean by "liberal". Could you please define it so I can see if I fit the category or not. Thanks.
#11 Posted by Urstruly on July 31, 2007 12:01:00 pm
It reminds me of an election year slogans in one of the elections in 1990s. It goes something like this:
Bezamir, O' bezamir
Bund vich lay apna teer
assi naiN ban-na tera veer
Bezamir, O' Bezamir.
Teer or arrow was the election symbol for bezamir in that year.
#12 Posted by tahmed32 on July 31, 2007 12:02:46 pm
Urstruly: you can dream on when you think you represent the people of Pakistan in your views. The reaction - or lack thereof - to the seizure of lal masjid should be the writing on the wall for you. But dont let reality come in the way of your dreams of turning Pakistan into a kingship ruled by your arab gods.
#13 Posted by abu_safwaan on July 31, 2007 12:03:07 pm
tahmed : if u condone the death of ALL innocent regardless of there dress code and not justify the killings as a necessary measure to establish the writ than u aint a liberal in the paki sense
#14 Posted by banneditem on July 31, 2007 12:08:23 pm
tahmed32, In order for pakistanis to have rights they really need to clean their consitution first and treat everyone as a citizen not 1st class 2nd class(ahmadi etc)...
Lets see the same compassion that Aithsaz Hussien displayed with CJ and have him tackle that. Then we can talk about removing ppl and electing ppl. Just because 2% of the pakistani community(lawyers) stood up against the military doesnt mean that the rest of the majority can pick a right leader. In Swat mullahs won simply because of their electoral symbol (the book...quran) and the saying that anyone that doesnt vote for the book is not a muslim. Is that how people decide to pick their leaders and is that the right approach to democracy, this BTW is similar to "roti, kapara, aur makan" not so long ago in times of ZA bhutto. Nawaz shariff used yellow cab scheme to garner support. This gives you an glimpse of what an average pakistani is made of and how easily he can be bought (regardless of how fevereshly fanatically inclined he may be). Flash them(pakis) a greenback and they will have a horse that can deal cards in a casino.
Lets see the same compassion that Aithsaz Hussien displayed with CJ and have him tackle that. Then we can talk about removing ppl and electing ppl. Just because 2% of the pakistani community(lawyers) stood up against the military doesnt mean that the rest of the majority can pick a right leader. In Swat mullahs won simply because of their electoral symbol (the book...quran) and the saying that anyone that doesnt vote for the book is not a muslim. Is that how people decide to pick their leaders and is that the right approach to democracy, this BTW is similar to "roti, kapara, aur makan" not so long ago in times of ZA bhutto. Nawaz shariff used yellow cab scheme to garner support. This gives you an glimpse of what an average pakistani is made of and how easily he can be bought (regardless of how fevereshly fanatically inclined he may be). Flash them(pakis) a greenback and they will have a horse that can deal cards in a casino.
#15 Posted by tahmed32 on July 31, 2007 12:11:53 pm
#13 abu_safwan. I assume you mean "dont condone". I dont think anyone in his right mind in Pakistan (or anywhere else) would condone the killing of innocents. And indeed, as any lawyer would agree, everyone is innocent unless proven guilty.
So, it seems to me using the term "liberal" a bit incorrectly - "murderous pschopath" would be a more appropriate term. And I dont think we have any of those on chowk - however much we may disagree with one another or get carried away in our arguments.
So, it seems to me using the term "liberal" a bit incorrectly - "murderous pschopath" would be a more appropriate term. And I dont think we have any of those on chowk - however much we may disagree with one another or get carried away in our arguments.
#16 Posted by echoboom on July 31, 2007 12:12:40 pm
Urstruly:
Can you imagine this kanjrRee was making fun of her dupatta which she conveniently let slip & all the time rearranged it on her head quipping, to the delightful squeals of the American audience, "this somehow refuses to stay in its place".
This is the KanjarRee also, when she was the PM that her best friend, grand-daugter of Mazhar Ail/Shaukat Hayat of Shaukat Hayat Khan and perhaps also of the commie ( humanist?) Tariq Ali was RAPED by the then President Ishaaque Khan's son-in-Law..Marvat something...and this the PM was silent while crowing all the time about "rights" & "wrongs" of women.
I have alsoheard from those who saw that she was slapped in the VIP lounge by Zardaari many a times..and she was happy as long as the drool from her arse originated from Mr. Baskin Robbins.
and who does not know what she did to her mother & brother...
and now the new sanpolia, Bilawal, is being readied to serve as the new generation of KanjarRs to continue to rape MUSLIMS in Pakistan.
Can you imagine this kanjrRee was making fun of her dupatta which she conveniently let slip & all the time rearranged it on her head quipping, to the delightful squeals of the American audience, "this somehow refuses to stay in its place".
This is the KanjarRee also, when she was the PM that her best friend, grand-daugter of Mazhar Ail/Shaukat Hayat of Shaukat Hayat Khan and perhaps also of the commie ( humanist?) Tariq Ali was RAPED by the then President Ishaaque Khan's son-in-Law..Marvat something...and this the PM was silent while crowing all the time about "rights" & "wrongs" of women.
I have alsoheard from those who saw that she was slapped in the VIP lounge by Zardaari many a times..and she was happy as long as the drool from her arse originated from Mr. Baskin Robbins.
and who does not know what she did to her mother & brother...
and now the new sanpolia, Bilawal, is being readied to serve as the new generation of KanjarRs to continue to rape MUSLIMS in Pakistan.
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