Moral Bankruptcy of Political Leadership in Pakistan

tahmed32, In order for pakistanis to have rights they really need to clean their consitution first and treat everyone as a citizen not 1st class 2nd class(ahmadi etc)...
Lets see the same compassion that Aithsaz Hussien displayed with CJ and have him tackle that. Then we can talk about removing ppl and electing ppl. Just because 2% of the pakistani community(lawyers) stood up against the military doesnt mean that the rest of the majority can pick a right leader. In Swat mullahs won simply because of their electoral symbol (the book...quran) and the saying that anyone that doesnt vote for the book is not a muslim. Is that how people decide to pick their leaders and is that the right approach to democracy, this BTW is similar to "roti, kapara, aur makan" not so long ago in times of ZA bhutto. Nawaz shariff used yellow cab scheme to garner support. This gives you an glimpse of what an average pakistani is made of and how easily he can be bought (regardless of how fevereshly fanatically inclined he may be). Flash them(pakis) a greenback and they will have a horse that can deal cards in a casino.

#13 abu_safwan. I assume you mean "dont condone". I dont think anyone in his right mind in Pakistan (or anywhere else) would condone the killing of innocents. And indeed, as any lawyer would agree, everyone is innocent unless proven guilty.

So, it seems to me using the term "liberal" a bit incorrectly - "murderous pschopath" would be a more appropriate term. And I dont think we have any of those on chowk - however much we may disagree with one another or get carried away in our arguments.

Urstruly:

Can you imagine this kanjrRee was making fun of her dupatta which she conveniently let slip & all the time rearranged it on her head quipping, to the delightful squeals of the American audience, "this somehow refuses to stay in its place".

This is the KanjarRee also, when she was the PM that her best friend, grand-daugter of Mazhar Ail/Shaukat Hayat of Shaukat Hayat Khan and perhaps also of the commie ( humanist?) Tariq Ali was RAPED by the then President Ishaaque Khan's son-in-Law..Marvat something...and this the PM was silent while crowing all the time about "rights" & "wrongs" of women.

I have alsoheard from those who saw that she was slapped in the VIP lounge by Zardaari many a times..and she was happy as long as the drool from her arse originated from Mr. Baskin Robbins.

and who does not know what she did to her mother & brother...

and now the new sanpolia, Bilawal, is being readied to serve as the new generation of KanjarRs to continue to rape MUSLIMS in Pakistan.

Re: # 18 and the one by abu-safwan

Dear Sirs,
I asked my "naukars son" whom we educated all the way to university a simple question.
Q: What would you do if you were elected as a President/PM of Pakistan?
A: I will ask your grandfather on what to do.

I then repeated the question his repsonse
A: Sir Ji, meh achi jee khoti banasaan ( I will build a house).

With democracy comes responsibility. And please dont compare US political system with Pakistan. US still has to elect some green peace weirdo, but they havent, Bush got re-elected because of one state Ohio. Similarly India has mature insitutions. While Pakistanis can acheive that status it iwill take some time. All I am saying is let Musharraf do it, he is a good guy and means well. Just because he is a bit heavy handed doesnt mean to chop his hands off, he got the slap all will be well.
Just like in Pakistan when there is a roadside minor accident and people start hitting the bad guy, someone from the crowd comes to the rescue saying
"choR do ji, rayn diyo, bichara ghareeb admi hi, maaf kar dau"

banneditem: I think you have an unduly low opinion of Pakistanis, and I also think you dont get the point I have been trying to make on chowk. If Indians are good enough to elect their leaders, what makes Pakistanis not good enough? If americans can bring a disaster like Bush to be President for a second term, why cant Pakistanis have the right to make similar mistakes once in a while.

The important thing is not who gets elected, but the system. If Swatis wish to elect someone who flashes the Quran - that is their right. All I am saying is that if after 4 years the Swatis decide the man who flashed the Quran has proved useless, then they should also have the right to replace him with someone else.

That is what the democratic system and the rule of law is all about. And it works better than any other system. And the army's job is to protect the Constitution, and make sure that elected rulers dont then try to overstay their term.

tahmed Sahib, aa'dab aarz.

... don't mean to put too fine a point in this debate about definition of liberal, but if I recall correctly, you were fully supportive of US atomic bombs on Japan - both times. Ahem.

Re#18
hard to argue with that

Sattar bhai..kaysay mizaaj hein..kahan hottay hein yaarr..naraz to naheen hein naa khuda na khoasta?

#18 Posted by tahmed32,

tahmed32, it pains me to see that you really don't know Pakistan. GT was right on the other board (or was it this board?) that Not ask what your country will do for you is BULL! You mention Swat, what do you know about Gilgit Sir? There's a huge movement going on there ... and the Northern areas feel Pakistan has given them ZILCH! They don't even feel to be part of Pakistan.

#19 sattar: Nice try - but sorry, no discussions with you.

You can of course keep trying to portray me as someone who does not mean what he writes - but rest assured that I mean it when I say "To you be your way, and to me be mine". All you have been interested in on chowk the past 7 years is pushing your paighamber. When you spend another 7 years showing an interest in anything else in Pakistan, then we can talk. Till then - I wish you a good day.

zeemax #22 I am not sure how this relates to the discussion below. Please let me know what I missed.

#24 Posted by tahmed32,

It was this para:

If Swatis wish to elect someone who flashes the Quran - that is their right. All I am saying is that if after 4 years the Swatis decide the man who flashed the Quran has proved useless, then they should also have the right to replace him with someone else.

They have found they have nowhere else to turn to. Certainly not the State of Pakistan. They have turned away from your 'democracy'.

tahmed,

You are missing the point: this has not about ideology, but about seeming switch in your views.

On one hand you claim to be a humanist, but then you support bombing into annihilation tens (hundreds?) of thousands of Japanese civilians. You may hide behind “no talking to sattar” excuse … which is somewhat childish … and that’s really up to you.

Abu Sahib, doing well, thank you …

... a warlord runs Swat now ... Maulana Fazlullah. This is what you have brought this country to.

ppp is actually a bigger dictatorship, internally, than even the army.......all ppp members and sh#t scared of benazir....i have seen them act like that in person......she rules over them like a queen...she, solely, decides who gets a party ticket, and who doesn't......she decides, solely, the complete party policy.......

......it is a one man show......or one woman show......

.......when she is not around, she appoints nincampoops like the current sindhi feudal as the head of the party, evern though far more capable individuals like aitezaz ahsan are available.....the reason being she fears the later will gain influence.......

........ppp is really the only true anti-establishment party in pakistan.....it is, infact, the only true national party in pakistan.......its leaders have gone to jail etc. on multiple occassions, yet stick with the party....it has a very loyal voter base, which is very anti-army.....

.......it is truly going to see what its leaders and votebase will do, if bb makes a deal with musharraf......to give an example, its most senior leader in punjab, gilani spent four years in jail, without being convicted, because he would not join musharraf's govt.......another major sindhi leader and its finance minsiter, naveed qamar, spent over two years in jail, for same reasons and was then declared innocent......aitezaz ahsan led the fight against musharraf in the cj case......

i wonder what these guys will do, if bb makes a deal.....they must be extremely angry.......

Raza Rabbani is now on record and several others have said off the record that they will leave PPP ..if there is a deal w/ the dictator. Kudos to them for having a spine