Science and the Islamic world --- The quest for rapprochement

I haven't read this article yet, but the apparent redeeming feature at the very outset is that it has taken the silly mug of that retarded resident psychiatrist off the FP :)

Good article..figure bears repeating..




Pakistan set a world record by increasing funding for higher education and science by an immense 800% over the past five years.


That was more of an effort to play catch-up with India's IITs...didn't go so well, did it?




At Quaid-i-Azam University in Islamabad, where I teach,
Here, as in other Pakistani public universities, films, drama, and music are frowned on, and sometimes even physical attacks by student vigilantes who believe that such pursuits violate Islamic norms take place. The campus has three mosques with a fourth one planned, but no bookstore.


Nooooo!! Manto..say it ain't so...



Popular new Islamic cell-phone models now provide the exact GPS-based direction for Muslims to face while praying,


HAHA..abdul paki uses the great satan's satellites to tell them where mo kicked the bucket? the same satellites that guide the JDAMs?

Great article. I really appreciate the effort you put into this.

Arjun, you are correct in a lot of your criticism, but the way you criticize just gets more bandar tamasha happening. Sometimes I think folks like yourself and the echobooms and urst truly fight with each other so passionately, because in truth you just really want to sleep with each other :).

Regarding the article.

1. If us Muslims consider ourselves as a "block" rather then diverse cultures and nations, then we should really emulate the Jewish people. As oppressed as they have been. they have managed to excel and lead the world in many fields.

2. Otherwise, it should just drive down to the national level. And one Muslim nation will be the model for another.

3. Actually the fact that these nations identify themselves based on a religious identity is part of the problem. Europe progressed only after squashing the inquisitors. You do not see America or UK classifying themselves as Christian nations. Okay bad example. Let us use France, and Holland instead.

-ts

PH writes "Instead, let us seek to understand the state of science in the contemporary Islamic world. First, to the degree that available data allows, I will quantitatively assess the current state of science in Muslim countries. Then I will look at prevalent Muslim attitudes toward science, .... "

Once again, just like the other mass producers of articles (Gill and that other swine), this miserable fool, produces more garbage. Instead of wasting time with his article which seeks to discredit Islam by trying to discredit the effects of colonization (wonder how he arrives at that connection)by terming them Islamic socio-cultural tendencies even though the ignoramus does not understand what culture is and that the diverse culture(s) in the Muslim world have very little to do with Islam or the Quran.

Let me bust his science rat a tat. The doctor writes "First, to the degree that available data allows, I will quantitatively assess the current state of science"

For this purpose the fool uses papers published in professional journals as the criteria. Now in quantitative data analysis whenever you compare countires, you have to reduce them to a common base, a per capita or per 1000 population. No such effort is made by the doctor to try to equalize the base by stating papers published per 100 physicists or per 1000 physicists and so on. Doing that will show you the scientific output per resource available rather than the broad unequal so called "quantitative analysis" by this fool who parades as a savior of science in the Muslim world without knowing about either Muslims, or the world, or science. Ignorance atop ignorance....

"God is one! God is ABSOLUTE!" [Holy Quran]

It's difficult to see how one can initiate a quest for 'rapprochement' with divine edicts such as the above.

Science and religion are fundamentally opposed to each other. Religion demands absolutes. Science ignores them.

Muhammad Abu Bakr Zakariya Al-Razi (10th century), the greatest physician of all time (or at least for 700 years as per the Islamic Encyclopedia) aside from his monumental break throughs in the medical field, also rejected all prophets as fraudulent liars, rejected the 'ijaz' of the Quraan and labeled the Hadis (sahih bukhari etc.) for what they really are - a lengthy albeit glorified version of a 300 year old Chinese whisper.

Today even the kufar don't make such derogatory statements.

In the end, the only 'rapprochement' is that of agreeing to separate religion and science. Both tolerating each other.

More "quantitative" blunders by the good (a-hole) doctor:

"A study by academics at the International Islamic University Malaysia [2] showed that OIC countries have 8.5 scientists, engineers, and technicians per 1000 population, compared with a world average of 40.7, and 139.3 for countries of the Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development. "

Can anyone spot the nonsense in the above "study". There is something known as the age structure of the population. The Muslim and other developing countries that have a higher fertility and mortality rates have a much younger population than the OECD countries. Now a younger population of under 17 year olds, would not have gone through even a bachelor's degree to be counted as "scientists", while the OECD countries have a proportionately much larger percent of an older population due to low mortality and fertility rates and that would translate into more people of a "scientist" age, not to mention the effects of colonization which have ensured that educational institutions in developing countries produce clerks and morons at best, and very little effort was made to alter that structure post colonization.

Now, what do you think about this tape-recorderesque "science" of these a-holes, gill, the shrink and this fool PH

#5, you have no understanding of what science or the Quran is about whatsoever. Science refers to a methodology of arriving at objective fact and truth. Fact and truth are not what changes,they are absolute in that sense, the error lies in the human mind which improves incrementally in its use of the scientific methodology to discover the truth and fact. Comprendey?

Now if someone created that fact and truth in the first place, and is not held to the same limitations as the human mind which tries to discover things "after the fact", then he can tell you "absolutely" about aspects of that truth and fact as "creator". There is no conflict here with the scientific methodology, as there is absolutley no conflict between religion and science, according to the Quran which invites people to use it to arrive at the truth, and then "after the fact" confirm the Quran's statements.

#2 Posted by arjun2




I do not see these numbers as discouraging at all if put in proper perspective. Lets see:

There are approximately 1 billion Muslims in the world and so are Hindus in India. Among the 59 Muslim countries the data shows the statistics of only 7 Muslim countries who together put 241,268 "All science papers", wheres Hindus put out 202,727 papers. Now if you do the math it turns out that when compared to only 7 Muslim countries, Hindus turn out to be 16% stupider than Muslims. If we extrapolate this comparative statistics to include 59 Muslim countries wrt Hindus in order to do parity of populations, the Hindus turn out to be border line retards.

Re: # 9Masadi

(((Einstien what has being a "physician" got to do with the truth or falsity of prophets or the ijaz of the Quran.....NOTHING! A miserable misuse of authority, similar to Wasim Akram promoting the benefits of Pepsi.... ))))

Excellent....join you soon.

rozaiba writes "Muhammad Abu Bakr Zakariya Al-Razi (10th century), the greatest physician ...."

Einstien what has being a "physician" got to do with the truth or falsity of prophets or the ijaz of the Quran.....NOTHING! A miserable misuse of authority, similar to Wasim Akram promoting the benefits of Pepsi....

PH....and these guys are going to save Pakistan....give me a damn break...!

Urstruly, that's a great point. Had not thought of that earlier. *thinking icon here*

There are probably many other issues, but the point is well-made.

#8 Posted by Urstruly on August 2, 2007 12:18:45 pm


There are approximately 1 billion Muslims in the world and so are Hindus in India.


Nice try with the snowjob..

There are 1 billion Indians, 85% hindu..so that's 850 million hindus..

there are 1.2 billion muslims at least..how do we know that? because each time someone draws a mo cartoon or writes a book dissing mo, we hear about how the feelings of 1.2 billion muslims are more important than one artist..

so the population of muslims is actually 1.4 times that of hindus...

you must think we're all inbred retards..or pakis..

11 Posted by KaalChakra on August 2, 2007 12:28:33 pm


Had not thought of that earlier. *thinking icon here*


What you need is a "can't tell my head from my ass" icon..

#6 Posted by masadi on August 2, 2007 11:59:07 am


Now a younger population of under 17 year olds, would not have gone through even a bachelor's degree to be counted as "scientists",


masadi: if the older practioners of the ROP are not scientists, who's going to educate the younger lot to be scientists...I mean real scientists..not social scientists..like you..

haha # 13, ok. Just do all those calculations fairly, and let those numbers fall where they may :)

But there are also other issues - I suspect, for instance, issues of direction and change. Indian numbers should be rising while those of the Islamic world should stay flat or rise far more slowly (if what this article seems to suggest is true).