The New Bedfellows

Tahmed Sahib:

"That is: if he really believes what he says, Musharraf would himself request to be allowed to focus on his job as military chief of bringing law and order to the tribal area."

You have given a very accurate definition of the role for the General President.

I would not be surprised if Benazir (=PPP) gets elected with a healthy majority, this is exactly what would happen. As legislature would be strong and independent, and Judiciary can only interpret, apply and enforce laws legislature hands down.

To get things started, Pakistan needs parliamentary elections every two years with term limits for the PM and President positions - also may be a good idea to have term limits for the legislators - two years makes sense, until we find people who are genuinely interested in propagating true democracy.

Re: # 67
you do travel alot don't you i hope it's not in your dreams only.

anil #54: "Keep me posted"

....yes, i have reached bangalore....and mumbai....and gurgaon....should be going to hyderabad shortly.....i am now, quite well entrenched into this IT scene....

....i have also reached karachi and islamabad and lahore and am quite well entrenched into the IT scene there, as well....

.....i suppose somewhat of a unique situation.......half my emails go to pakistan and half to india....travelling quite a bit, in the region from gulf to india......

there seem to be two different groups of indians evolving in IT....those who went to the iit's etc. and went off to the usa and established themselves, there.....and those who went to the iit's etc. and stayed back in india, and established companies there....i have now met both and worked with both.....interesting to see the differences and similarities......

i think india has reached a saturation point in terms of lack of availability of skilled IT professionals......everyone being hired and put on projects is very very young.......overwhelmingly less than 5 years of experience......and the demand for skills is so high, and supply so low, that these companies will eventually face large declines in quality....and salaries will go through the roof....

......they are now moving off to china and recruiting in places like hungary and romania.......they should look at pakistan.....

Re: # 87

Nothing can save a country when its people do not wish to live with each other. We have already lost half of the country in 1971 and have done little to keep the rest together. Nuclear capability had its shortterm positive impact but has since lost its effect on nation building. Post 9/11 world has made Pak nukes more of a liability, weapons of death for others are being protected as if though our life depended on it.

Pakistan is on a self-destruct mode and we have nobody to blame but ourselves.

Re: # 69
1971 will not be repeated for now there is atmomic reality of superior atomic bombs by us. ( all world experts have concluded pakistani design and yield in Kilotons is far higher than Indian. More bigger cities means more targets). If the stage comes due to spilitist encouragement from India general will make atomic attack and cripple india before split occurs.
Also soniya gandhi is not Indira Gandhi.

Dear Mufti,

Your thesis is based on ideological debate whereas Pakistan problems are far more complicated than we wud like to believe.

Urstruly correctly identified Pakistans elitist problem that continues to haunt the country. Pakistan has always been a Authoritarian state that is teetering on totalitarianism. Authoritarian states are ruled by elites with varied interest groups dominating the political spectrum. Army, feudals, beuaracrats, Industrialists and Moolas are the various interest groups who plague our country politics in one form or another. These varied interst groups are unwilling to share real power with the people and wud like nothing more but status quo. May it be Musharraf (army), Bezamir (Feudals), Nasharif (Industrialists)or Maulvi Diesel (Moolas) they all share the same objectices ie continued domination of the resources.

What we see today is the clash of the same power groups amongst each other that has always led to the change of guards in shape of power sharing. But this time around there is a external force (USA) that has its own interest to protect and has added to the complexity of power restructuring.

Back in 1971 when Indira Gandhi had split Pakistan her next military objective was splitting into two halfs the remaining Pakistan. We are headed in that direction, Pakistan will be divided into two or more political entities based on ethnic and foreign power redistribution.

Its not like democracies can do no wrong, germans elected hitler, americans elected cheyney (second time round). I'd love to have complete faith in the supreme court but without a significant change in pakistani society its all for nothing. Pakistani's crazy politics are a very good reflection of an inherently flawed social system which again is a product of widespread ignorance. Only education can fix this.

Re: # 71 Masadi I agree with you. Appointed people can not make democracy. You are right but you need to be moderaate in expressing.
I hope YLH can contribute to discussion as he knows big people in lahore politics and will be good to hear from him his feelings about what Punjabi heart land thinks

Tahmed wrote "Pakistani people need to rule themselves through duly appointed and removable leaders, and those seeking to take away this basic right of the Pakistani people need to be judged by the Pakistani courts"

The "appointed" vs "elected" as tahmed has written was a Freudian slip. He actually does demand "appointed" rulers, i.e. appointed by the US elite, either directly like Karzai or through their occupation force like Zia and Musharraf. When those "appointed" rulers don't fulfill even the most outrageous US demands then that is described by this peon of the West as "taking away the basic rights of the people of Pakistan, further the solution to that (if not outright assassination by the US and its occupation force) is according to him judgment by the courts and the judges those that have throughout the history of this nation legitimized military rule (i.e. submitted to the US occupation force), including the current CJ manufactured crisis and its logical conclusion.

Tahmed is an unconditional worshipper and peon of the West, he will not say a single word against the undemocratic illegal interference in the internal affairs of Pakistan by the US through its history. He will not say a word against the US support of Pakistani dictators into doing things that have caused immense harm to Pakistan and its people and yet this miserable fcuk has the audacity to give us the "democracy" slogan and talk about the rule of law. We understand you a-hole, you are an enemy of humanity and an enemy of Pakistan. Go back to where you belong, up GWB's a$$

LOL

Hoping against hopes,

The poor Babar Mufti is having high hopes for pakistan, that too about enlightened moderation.

Let us look at the social institution level.

Hoodood and blaspjemy laws were there during the time of benazir and she did nothing because the paki people want it including the YLH.

So nothing will change there, even after the return of benazir.

Hoping against hope

Poor Babar Mufti, you have absolutely no idea about pakistan. benzir comes and goes, nothing will change in pakistan. The events and institutions of pakistan represent the will of the people.

Benazir was there when hoodood, and blasphemy laws were in place, she did nothing. The spread of jihadis and the madrassas took place when she was there. The corruption and mullaism flourished during benazir time. The moderate islam was never there in pakistan and no one can create it when TNT was the foundation of its creation.

Take it from me babar nothing will change.

Now let us look at budget alocations. Most of the money is cornered by the military. from corn flakes to cement are made my the army. Most of teh transport is cornered by the military. Most of the top jobs are cornered by the military. No benzir can change any of that in th e short term.

There is no excess money to allocate to schools, so madrassas will flourish , they are supported by the mums and dada.

The export situation will not improve because no one wants to come to paklistan because of terrorism.

Pakistan is in a situation of no options, there is no where to move. It is pure power craziness that attracts Benazir, she has no vision for the country, no ideas, no nothing.

She will not be able to do anything about kashmir, no trade improvements with India.

Under the US [pressure shortly pakis will have to allow shipments to afghanisatan through pakistan. That is all.

No Osama will be caught by Benazir.

#43 Posted by bulleya,

somewhere in there is the pakistani awam.......which is now moving in a totally different direction.....they are fed up with musharraf, bb, nawaz and the usa.......

Above is true that people are fed up, but it must be noted that above all people are fed up with Musharraf's kowtowing to US interests resulting in grave domestic polarization, and more so now given the recent US military threats. It is obvious BB will need to follow the same path if she's in power. On the other hand, NS is the only one who has a record of successfully resisting US pressure with the nuke tests, a posture which is widely admired.

The other factor is that the 'extremists' can no more be treated dismissively by any political party as in the past given the civil war in FATA and Swat, and will need to be given political representation to avoid its spread. BB/musharraf combine will continue to use force.

People are likely to take into account that NS has worked well with religious elements of all persuasions before, and is the only one with the ability to do so again.

Besides, the article 58 (2b) will make any BB/Musharraf smooth working relationship impossible. So even if a deal occurs, it will not last more than a few months. So all these discussions are academic.

However, notwithstanding the above, the chances of 'emergency' are far more than any elections. In which case, I would place my money on Urstruly's prediction.

BJ Kumar...

truth is bitter...accept it or not...

while pointing fingers in MAJ..look into your own shirts..OK

what your shameless leaders have done in past....

MJ is our hero..thanks god..he saved us ..from ultra beautiful mumbai..and cacutta...as given in pics by zeemax...

we send 1000 times lanat to such place...

thanks ..we have seperate land..where we live like a free 1st class citizens...not as 3rd class as poor slave indians muslims live under dhoti walai shameless hindus..makkar qaum...

and i am asking for one more seperate mulim country inside india..as 200 millions muslims have a right of freedom..how cn you put a lock on it ?????????? tell me ?????

#66 Salim: Two year term limits would seem to make sense, although even four years is better than what Musharraf is trying to do - 8 years of unelected rule plus 5 more, complete with uniform to match!!

An important thing missing in Pakistani politics is inner party democracy. All parties seem obliged to stick to their party leaders, when in fact these individuals have made serious errors as prime ministers and should themselves step aside. This of course is institutionalized in the US through the primary process - and political leaders have often voluntarily stepped aside.

In Pakistan, time is ripe for such a change. Aitezaz Ahsan is clearly a better candidate than BB, and there is every reason to give Javed Hashmi a chance and for NS to step aside. The fact that both BB and NS are fishing to remain party leaders rather acting responsibly and calling for party primaries to elect new party leaders is disappointing, although keeping in character with these two. If they should chose to do so, their personal prestige would be greatly enhanced, and more importantly, the democratic movement would receive a big stimulus.