A Pakistani-American in India

Re: # 470
India's Cowish Behaviour -
everyone right from 1947 were welcomed to suck the milk right from the t**** ;
be it Red Russians, Americans or the NON ALIGNED NATIONS. All are welcome for
everything and anything. It's America's time for breeding and milking.


Pakistan according to her poor economical background where we were left with nothing - had to play safe but atleast we played a wise game.
a) joined CENTO , SEATO to get the latest weapons
b) helped US against Russians in Pakistan(s) intrest - the point was proved when Soviets entered Afghanistan
c) gave 1/3 of Kashmir wisely - again policy worked - China is our friend -
d) actually Pakistan dragged US in Afghan Jihad against Soviets like the British dragged Americans during the WWII.
It helped Pakistan - Soviets didn't came to Afghanistan for Afghanistan they had deeper plans . They already had started trouble in Baluchistan long before they attacked Aghanistan. Yes, Pakistan suffered post-Afghan Jihad but every win comes with a price.
e) Kargil although a lost war (objectively) has actually helped India to come down on table and have a serious discussion with Pakistan .

f) Attack on Indian Parliment - we all have doubts on this one

This lady named India has beded with not one but three nations - shows the character!

Couple of memories of my g'pa:

Azad Qureshi lived in a small town of Fatehpur Sikri, India during the time of partition of
Hindustan. The only thing special about Azad Qureshi was that he was the only muslim who supported
All India Congress in all of Fatehpur Sikri and surrounding areas. For his support for the
Congress - he was bullied not even by other muslims of Fatehpur Sikri but even by his parents,
wife and children ( Qureshis according to my g'pa belonged to the butcher community of Fatehpur).
His reason to support Congress was that Pakistan would never become a reality and if Pakistan
would ever be formed ; it would be parted in couple of weeks. His house was often painted with
words 'Ban Kay Rahe Ga Pakistan , Bat Kay Rahay Ga Hindustan - Qureshi tu Yaahin Galay Ga'
Intresting aspect of Azad Qureshi was that when Pakistan came into being - Qureshi was burned
by Hindus in Delhi where to his family he went to see Gandhi Je.
Another story is of Aligarh where when asked to volunteer for Muslim League to spread the message
of Quaid all over Hindustan - all 15000 students came to volunteer .
My g'pa mentions someone named nick named Jimmy Wonderman who studied with him at Aligarh Muslim
University (a son of some nawab) who later committed suicide ; his parents never allowed him to migrate.
Pakistan with all the ills is a blessing . What I have witnessed specially at time of difficulty we
do unite plus we can observe shocks quite quickly which is a very good sign. My ancestors along with
millions risked there lives for the nation - and I am sure there is a realization in youth of today from
Karachi to Chowki Usmani , AJK how important Pakistan is .
H'Partition Day to Pakistanis

Disclaimer:

For those Pakistanis who think you need it, I apologize for any Pakistan-related remarks which rub you the wrong way. When I say “Pakistan did this” or “Pakistan did that” I mostly refer to the small elite which controls virtually all the decision-making in that country – and not to its large segments of population which, the country being a dictatorship, have always had very little real say in its matters of state.

Zilch, in fact!

#458 Masadi yaar (please do not get riled up but the following are all true)

By calling a Pakistan “poodle” I do not mean to imply that Pakistan has the physical characteristics of those canines (except those "Pakistanis" who ARE of the specie canine).

The following are examples of “poodlish” behavior on the part of Pakistan (state):

(1) When SEATO was started, Pakistan was the only country from the subcontinent to jump on it. (1950’s)

(2) When the US sent its “famous” U-2 spy plane to peek at Russian goodies, Pakistan provided the airport from where it took off (and where it would have landed – had it not been shot down) (1960)

(3) When China wanted a piece of Kashmir (actually one third), Pakistan gave up like a “haari hui hataash veshya” gives up chastity – willingly and without a murmur! (1960’s?)

(4) When Nixon needed a quick boost before election – Pakistan played his errand-boy – the facilitator between Kissinger and Mao – providing the very innovative version of the game “Kissie, Kissie – Mao, Mao!” (1971)

(5) When the great Ronal Reagan needed to contain the USSR in Afghanistan, Pakistan spent no time thinking about the effect on its own character and went whole-hog building a jihadi network – including within its own agencies (1980’s)

(6) Kargil – enough said! (July 4, 1999).

(7) Post 9/11 call from The great Colin Powell – enough said! (September 2001)

(8) Indian Parliament attack and Mushy’s subsequent TV speech! (January, 2001)

And so on…and so on!

You name the “poodlish” act – Pakistan has done it!

Pakistani foreign policy acts have never been directed by what has been in the interest of its general population – which requires peace with India, but in (1) creating hostilities with India over one pretext or another, (2) trying to leverage other parties (with almost zilch success) in building up anti-India groupings, (3) when caught committing bad acts – lying, lying, and lying!

Although you make the point that the rogueness is “imposed” – I doubt that there was ever a lack of willingness on Pakistan’s part! In fact, the simple reality of life is – if somebody excels at something, others go to that somebody for more of the same!

In this case, the “poodle” act! :)

Like I said, burra mat maano! But facts are facts!

#468
cobes
There many many i.m contributing and serving India inside India
..just few of such incidents of few ( distributing Sweets )...it is injustice to negate all there labour & contribution after all they CHOSE to make India there home unlike arm chair patriot overseas RSS VHP who claim to be indian based on there being Hindu

tolkinin, FYI, I am always taken pro-choice stance on Kashmir.

Dost Mittar: No offense taken, my friend. And none given either, I hope. :-)

That is an interesting point you make about pre-partition vs. current film actors in India.

The pity to my mind is that all these putdowns and quarrels on cowk on matters of religion, nationality are so totally counterproductive at worst, and useless at best. These quarrels obviously indicate the individual has nothing susbstantive to say. And those with the weakest arguments will generally use the strongest language.

Meanwhile, real life leaves these jokers behind. And no doubt, the historical imperitive is for cooperation, not competition, between India and Pakistan, regardless of what some self-absorbed individual sitting half way around the world would like to see.

Cobes
"didn't to catch the gravy train 60 years ago and they obviously don't feel safe amongst Kafirs!!"

Kasmiris want take the land with them LOL

re: IB # 450

"okay , make Gen.Zahir-uddin Shah the next Indian Army Chief"

Array, seriously, IB! Is there something specific you know about the general other than his many phone taps and there not being too many Muslim in the Indian miltiary etc.

(You don't have to have any facts. Here, we freely abuse everyone else without any reasons whatsoever, but if you had something different, it will be great to know)

cobra#454:

No cobra, I did not see any large-scale destruction of temples. Maybe because my guide was a Muslim who did not want to point these out to me. Many of these caves, we were told, were hidden from public view for centuries, so how could Aurangzeb have destroyed them?

zeemax: I see you were trying to make muqaddam happy by posting "tall, fair" ayub khan, no doubt a "gem" of a person ("gem" as in a lump of coal!!). :-)

tahmed32:

Maybe I was a bit harsh on you in my previous post. I have never denied the existence of islamophobia among Hindus and have written about it at chowk as well. Its source, however, is not Indian education or Islam but Indian history, especially the history of Muslim invasions, conquests and the islamic concept of treating people differently based on their faith, a concept alien to Indic faiths.

It appears to me, however, that this isamophobia in India is less now than it was before the partition. I often look for objective, albeit small, indicators. And one of the very potent indicators is our film industry. Look at these names: Dilip Kumar, Ajit, Santosh, Jayant, Madhubala, Meena Kumari, Nimmi. Do you see anythng common in these names? They are all Hindu names of Muslim actors who started their film career before the partition and they all found it was necessary to hide their real name to be acceptable to the Hindu fans. Contrast it with today's film world: Shabana Azmi, Naeerudin Shah, Shah Rukh Khan, Saif Ali Khan, Amir Khan, Salman Khan and countless other Khans. I cannot even think of any Indian Muslim wanting to change his or her name to be acceptable to Hindus. This to me suggests that there is perhaps less Islamophobia now than when Gandhi, Nehru, Azad and Jinnah were fighting their battles and part of it may be due to the positive influence of the Indian textbooks, which give a more pro-muslim view of the Indian history than was taught during the British rule.

cliftonbridge #430 Actually, I was reading today that one of our most beloved muslim practices (not eating pig...ooops, i just named-the-animal-who-cannot-be-named) goes all the way back to ancient egyptians!! seems like the ancient egyptian priests (the boys who mummified their emperors) had this thing about pigs which they considered to be bearers of the plague. So, you will find plenty of animals, but not pigs, in hieroglyphics. So, Islam is hardly a standalone thing - it is part of that rich fabric of human history that only fools try to carve up into their own little "cultures" (and bigger fools start fighting over, as on chowk).

Re: # 459
running out of ideas, are we?

#456 particularly a "tall, fair" one. ha! ha!

HP writes "A country does the following:

1. Sends its armies in to an independent country based on lies- 2003
2. Sends its armies in another country based on lies- 1963-64
3. Sends its armies to overthrow a government- Panama
4. Sends its armies to overthrow a government- Grenada
5. Sends in material support to armed terrorist against a legally elected government – Nicaragua
6. Sends in 75 million dollars to terrorists outfits to overthrow a government it does not like
7. Commits countless other related egregious acts!

Wouldn’t you call that country a rogue state?

Perhaps the term "rogue" is too light to describe such a state!"


Fine job busting the double standards of these bas*****. By the way bjk needs to make up his mind if Pakistan is a "poodle state" which he is adamant in advocating or if it is a "rogue state" which he is also adamant in advocating. If it is the first than any "rogueness" is being conducted under the noses of the poodle masters and thus no independance can be advocated to it which leads to HPs rendition about the true "ROGUE STATE". While if the state in Pakistan is independantly "rogue" then for sure it cannot be a poodle state. The fact is that any "rogueness" of the state institution in Pakistan is imposed from without by the real ROGUE STATE and the victims of it are first and foremost the Pakistani people and not outsiders, least of all the Indians, as Pakistan has acted as a buffer keeping the super rogue state from interfering in its internal affairs. Can you imagine what pressures there would be on India, given the China and the Soviet factor, were there no Pakistan to act as the ROGUE's whore? I predict they would have had half a dozen military coups by now.....

Dost Mittar #442

Damn this new chowk format. I lost the post I just wrote by accidentally hitting some key, and am retyping the damn thing!! Here goes...

On sriram arjun the internet warrior: I am glad you switched to a more tenable position than mere rejection of the example I provided. One question: do you think his two-line "insults" (your phrase) are followed by some news item because he is:

1. actually interested in sharing the article for information because it provides further detail to his one liner.

2. presenting the article to give the impression that his putdowns and insults of "pakis" and "muslims" are based on substantive.

you dont have to give an answer, since i have already wasted enough time on this indivdiual.

On the indian education system: I had, you will note, said "I doubt" that you will find an example, and if you have found one that is fine. There is no nefarious reason for me to isolate the indian education system from other influences (home, media, bjp propaganda, a cultural tendancy to quarrel with neighbors...) that underlie the reason so many indian posters seem to come to chowk for one purpose only - to write insults and ridicule about pakistanis and to demonize islam.

On the other hand, this tendancy on the part of indian posters is just one of many factors that go into building india-pakistan relations, and in fact not even the most important ones. So no big deal. It just comes a surprise to most Pakistanis when they first come to chowk, of that I am sure, since the reverse is basically not the case.