A Pakistani-American in India

laddu, masan

Well, one thing that is happening now is that more and more people who consciously choose to lead unIslamic lives (polytheists and idol worshippers and such) are beginning to look into the Quran themselves. The challenge is to do so as objectively as possible. It shouldn't be done to abuse Muslims or to denounce Islam. If the Quran is studied objectively but from a non-Muslim point of view, the excercise would be beneficial for both Muslims and non-Muslims.

Re: # 611

"Its not Zimmi -dari but Zamin Dari which has nothing to do with Hindu or Muslim "

Hey, I am a 100 percent North Indian and now based in that region only.

I also have travelled extensively to south and have seen their idols and temples.

I have many indian muslim friends who frequent my house and I frequent theirs.

I have got out of the dhimmi attitude of trying to fantasize the muslim rule through "Pakeeza" or "mughal -e-azam" .
I have met real nawaabs and kunwars of erstwhile states of indaia. I know what I am talking about .

This is exactly the taqiyya.

"zimmi-dari" is the collection of terror funds from the zimmis who are in contract with the muslims who have allowed them to live as slaves in return for their lives,

The traditionally accepted tax farming of local kings who subjugated the smaller kings and tribes WAS TRANSFORMED into zimmi-dari. The moghuls allowed the older ways of tax farming remain , but turned it into Zimmas.
This was again turned back to "Zamin-dari" when the moghul rule ended and the Britishers.

I do not need to sugar coat the evilness of moghul rulers and nawabs since I do not have any need to "justify" the greatness of religion on whose strenght they committed the atrocities and enslaved my idolator fore fathers.

laddu buddy,

you are asking valid questions..

Anyone who picks up a copy of Quran (idolators / polytheists in particular) would be flabbergasted at the amount of hate directed towards them..

I think long years of dhimmitude and being killed for disobediences like obstructing the way to the mosque of Mr. Aurangazeb has made them the perfect dhimmis.

First the polytheists were dhimmis to the Muslims and then the Brits. Because the Brits are themselves aloof of religion and were scared of right wing Christianity, the Hindu (polytheist) dhimmis took to being dhimmis of secularism and it continues till now..

Only now a few confident polytheists stand up and say, "Yeah, yeah I know that stories of monkey God and flying missiles are BS, but your story of a pedophile getting revelations from an angel of a vengeful God smells worse than that BS"..

:-)

"majority of muslims are not idol breakers, but also they will NEVER renounce any word of the Quran. Let people sort out the intricities of their beliefs for themselves."

That is surprising. For a book that claims to contain simplest of all the messages to comprehend you find "intricacies" in it's hate verses?
Remember, every post 9/11 beheading of kafirs is accompanied by the chant of Allahu.
The fact is that the chant of Allahu while beheading thousands idolators in one go has always been approved by the state maulavis and mullahs as a requirement of the faith.

Ask any of the modern day mullah's-

Is killing of idolators and kafirs who have rejected the message justified by your faith?

The answer is unanimously

- YES!!!.

And you "enlightened moderates" only sit quietly watching the fun of beheadings of idolators and kafirs while calling it "intricacies of faith" that would be sorted out.

Who would "sort it out" when you do NOT have the guts to reject the hate versus!!

This is revolting!!

anil ji, arjun's support has always been with yasser, although it may seem hard to tell his support apart from his opposition.

Laddu
"The zimmi-dari was also calculated in terms of number of innocent idolator zimmis that the muslim nawab could kill wihtout questioning"

I think you are from south India and do not know much about North india ....Its not Zimmi -dari but Zamin Dari which has nothing to do with Hindu or Muslim ..it was collector of tax for the British and they were both hindu and muslim..(zamin is Land or Dharti )it was pretty lucrative position under the raj ....regarding Nawab they are despised by ordinary muslims not for cruelty but flandering and may be loose character by going to patronize dancing girls ( kotha ) ala as depicted in hindi movies if you have heard Pakeezah ,umraon jaan Ada ...

Another misundrstanding in south is that there are not as many famous and renowned Temples in north India like u.P Bihar Bengal b/c they were destroyed ...etc ,,,,Reason is not that temples were destroyed but b/c moghul and other muslim dynasties never ventured to the south there for muslim or islamic influence in the form of urdu ,taj ,qutub minar ,jama masjid like structure are not found in the south.....The moghul and other dynasties remaind in the north that by itself is not a crime atleast at that time but hypothetical theories are atttributed to a historical fact

HAHA...being posted in the land of the pure gives US diplomats PTSD..the land of the pure is in the august company of burundi, CAR and haiti...

Four US missions in Pakistan creating PSTD in diplomats
WASHINGTON: Four US missions in Pakistan are among 21 American embassies and consulates around the world called the “unaccompanied embassies and consulates” where either spouses or other dependents are not allowed for security reasons,

In addition to Iraq and Afghanistan, those posts include four missions in Pakistan, three in Saudi Arabia and one each in Burundi, Bosnia, the Central African Republic, Haiti, Ivory Coast, Lebanon, Liberia, Serbia (Kosovo) and Yemen.

The State Department plans to create a new mental care office and require employees to take additional time off to deal with a surge in stress disorders among US diplomats in danger posts abroad, particularly Iraq and Afghanistan, officials said on Tuesday.

The steps were proposed in response to a survey that found up to 17 percent of diplomats serving at such posts may suffer from post traumatic stress disorder or similar problems, the officials said.

The survey was begun in the spring to evaluate mental strains on the US diplomatic corps as its members are asked to serve in growing numbers at increasingly dangerous places, particularly Iraq and Afghanistan, where they are at risk from insurgent attacks. About 2,600 diplomats who have worked over the past five years at the department’s 21 so-called “unaccompanied” embassies and consulates completed the survey.

#607

Cliftonbridge:

"agreed anil. thanks for confirming what i knew to be true."

But you should continue to play hardball with ArjunM. However, you can blame him for point wrongs. You might like to set him straight for his passion to find all things wrong with Pakistan.

At least for once he has supported Yasser's postion on secularism. Is it the outcome of your playing hardball?

kaal you sentimental old thing you :)

agreed anil. thanks for confirming what i knew to be true.

arjun since i have denounced the killing of civilians in the name of any ideology and you cling to the very impartial view that killing unarmed civilians women and children alike is justified and moral everytime you think its a good thing we have to disgaree with your moral high ground here. I dont expect you to suddenly abandon your hatefilled agenda of creating hatred amongst moderate muslims and hindus that you pridely proclaim at every given oppurtunity.

# 601

Cliftonbridge:

"anil i think that the idea of ignoring/burying the hatchet is probably more common in india than on chowk :) "

So true aboout Chowk. "this India" in India seems to be preoccupied in their dreams, Chowk is a different story. The one's I know they either don't know and don't care about the hatchet, or have lost the hatchet.

#602 Posted by cliftonbridge on August 14, 2007 1:46:35 pm



2.Terrosism includes loads of nonmuslims i refer you to noam chomsky who is right about that part.


Sorry to rain in on your delusional parade but the current war on terrorism is being fought against islamofascism..terrorism is just one of the methods used by the islamofascists..

You can continue to dwell in your delusional world and convince yourself that it's otherwise...that has no bearing on reality...

islamofascism is at war with

the israelis in israel
indians in india
thai buddhists in thailand
philipino catholics in the phillipines
hindu indonesians in bali
US in afghanistan
US in iraq
With the brits in britain
with the US in the US

etc etc...

cliffs, laila majnu is probably too extravagant, but it was a wonderful opportunity to get to know people...and one will always be thankful for any and all of life's most beautiful experiences...:)

#563 Posted by tahmed32

[krishna: it was an indian who started the tried to equate the India-Pakistan equation with the US-Cuba equation. If you are interested in reality, shouldnt you take note of the the US vs Indian per capita incomes first?

Check that first, then come talk to me. Also, keep in mind what I wrote at the end of that post. So, make sure when responding that you dont give me an opportunity to show you to be yet another example of a duffer from India with a chip on his shoulder. ]

tahmed,

You're an old and wily Chowk campaigner, and as slippery as they come. But you're not going to be able to slip out of THIS one.

The India/Pakistan vs. USA/Cuba comparison is one thing. And we WILL talk about that. But ONLY AFTER you finish a point that YOU MADE EARLIER than my India/USA comparison.

Tell us, WHY is it that it is IMPERATIVE for India to "cooperate" with Pakistan?

What happens if we don't, and just maintain the status quo?

"Modern day idolator hindus have no problem with most of the muslims who do not consider my idolatory as an affront to their faith." Modern day muslims are not breaking idols anymore than christians and jews for the most part give or take maybe the taliban who you can not call "modern" anythings.

"unless modern day muslims comes out explicitely rejecting those hate versus idolators would always carry the suspicion about the existence of support to these terrorists"

this is a very faulty argument.
1.Palestinians for instance are not trying to break hindu idols.
2.Terrosism includes loads of nonmuslims i refer you to noam chomsky who is right about that part.
3.Anyday you chose to have a realistic world view remember that the vast majority of muslims are not idol breakers, but also they will NEVER renounce any word of the Quran. Let people sort out the intricities of their beliefs for themselves.

kaal may i ask if it was a laila majnu thing that got you thinking about karachi and its folk :)

anil i think that the idea of ignoring/burying the hatchet is probably more common in india than on chowk :)

ras if you mean intereligious ....i hope that things work well for those couples but i must tell you the dice are loaded. However i am not 100% clear if you are saying hindu muslim or indian/paki? the indian/paki thing matters very little to start with in the muslim community.