Jinnah and the Islamic State – Setting the Record Straight

borivili_express writes "so punk what are hindus doing to muslims in gujrat, kahmir and other spots in india, social justice?"

Is that the best you can muster a-hole? Whatever the "Hindus" are doing or not doing does not justify nuking the place- are you so dumb to understand that? Protecting your brother.....? Where did you get that? The Book talks about the oppressed, protecting them, and not even in the most convuluted logic does that translate into nuking people. Jihadists like you, a caricature of the Crusader's Version of Islam, discard the Quran at will and then talk about "Islam". And don't give me that bravery BS. Dropping a nuclear bomb does not involve bravery, it involves grotesque immorality. If you were worried about facing Allah you wouldn't advocate the barbarism you advocate. Remember any evil you do be it an atom's weight will be brought to justice, a-hole and what you are advocating is not an atom's worth but a whole planet's worth of evil. Invented stories about the US elite? Ha ha you just gave away your cover. A damn bigot yourself probably an RSS Hindu and you are pretending to be a Jihadist....funny but you fool yourself alone...like that BS Khan character we have on here

Re: # 86 i fully agree...excellent...

Last try for URDU text which must accompany the post to make any sense. This time using inverted commas.


It is important to bear in mind that people like Phoodbhoys are no longer in a position to use the titles of "Doctor" or "Professor" or them being from Harvard type universities to
be a domineering factor.

AlHamduLillah, those from who are from Madressas are fully aware of the standard of education of the Farangi Universities. It is simply because $ is assocaited with the farangi degrees so a lot of ignorant people are under the delusion that they they are somehow more learned than the Madressa ones.

In fact anyone who went to a Madresaa , AFTER doing ttheir doctorates from Harvard types, vouch for the fact that even the best of the farangi universities are several notches below those of an average Madressa.

Once Employment & Earnigs and the veneer of "glamour" is removed from the enslaved colonised minds then the Phoodbhoy types are reduced to their well-deserved street-sweeper station.

Here is a slap on the face of this Kanjaroon who has been polluting CHOWK with his forked-tongue to promote his agenda of haramkhari inside the Trojan-horse of free-thinking".

Muslims are dtermined to eradicate his types or anyone who even entertains the tough of a Pakistan without an ORTHODOX, FUNDAMENTALIST, EXTREMIST Pakistan which is diametically opposite to raushan-khayal, maader-RATE, maader-RUN or a Kanjaroon Pakistan.
___________________________________________________________
Shahnawa z Farooqui is under 40 years old; a protege, as well as son-in-law, of the one-man institution Salim Ahmad whose scholarship is still a beacon to even the acknowledged greats in literary criticism , religion and philosophy

Re: # 84

A'null,

Chalo... I'll assume you were not taught how to express gratitude. I am just glad I educated you whether you acknowledge it or not.

And I agree there are those who would like others to believe that being forced into a straitjacket not of your choice for the benefit of some elite is the epitome of individualism. Well said ... sadly not very introspective though.

It is important to bear in mind that people like Phoodbhoys are no longer in a position to use the titles of "Doctor" or "Professor" or them being from Harvard type universities to
be a domineering factor.

AlHamduLillah, those from who are from Madressas are fully aware of the standard of education of the Farangi Universities. It is simply because $ is assocaited with the farangi degrees so a lot of ignorant people are under the delusion that they they are somehow more learned than the Madressa ones.

In fact anyone who went to a Madresaa , AFTER doing ttheir doctorates from Harvard types, vouch for the fact that even the best of the farangi universities are several notches below those of an average Madressa.

Once Employment & Earnigs and the veneer of "glamour" is removed from the enslaved colonised minds then the Phoodbhoy types are reduced to their well-deserved street-sweeper station.

Here is a slap on the face of this Kanjaroon who has been polluting CHOWK with his forked-tongue to promote his agenda of haramkhari inside the Trojan-horse of free-thinking".

Muslims are dtermined to eradicate his types or anyone who even entertains the tough of a Pakistan without an ORTHODOX, FUNDAMENTALIST, EXTREMIST Pakistan which is diametically opposite to raushan-khayal, maader-RATE, maader-RUN or a Kanjaroon Pakistan.
___________________________________________________________
Shahnawa z Farooqui is under 40 years old; a protege, as well as son-in-law, of the one-man institution Salim Ahmad whose scholarship is still a beacon to even the acknowledged greats in literary criticism , religion and philosophy

It is important to bear in mind that people like Phoodbhoys are no longer in a position to use the titles of "Doctor" or "Professor" or them being from Harvard type universities to
be a domineering factor.

AlHamduLillah, those from who are from Madressas are fully aware of the standard of education of the Farangi Universities. It is simply because $ is assocaited with the farangi degrees so a lot of ignorant people are under the delusion that they they are somehow more learned than the Madressa ones.

In fact anyone who went to a Madresaa , AFTER doing ttheir doctorates from Harvard types, vouch for the fact that even the best of the farangi universities are several notches below those of an average Madressa.

Once Employment & Earnigs and the veneer of "glamour" is removed from the enslaved colonised minds then the Phoodbhoy types are reduced to their well-deserved street-sweeper station.

Here is a slap on the face of this Kanjaroon who has been polluting CHOWK with his forked-tongue to promote his agenda of haramkhari inside the Trojan-horse of free-thinking".

Muslims are dtermined to eradicate his types or anyone who even entertains the tough of a Pakistan without an ORTHODOX, FUNDAMENTALIST, EXTREMIST Pakistan which is diametically opposite to raushan-khayal, maader-RATE, maader-RUN or a Kanjaroon Pakistan.
___________________________________________________________
Shahnawa z Farooqui is under 40 years old; a protege, as well as son-in-law, of the one-man institution Salim Ahmad whose scholarship is still a beacon to even the acknowledged greats in literary criticism , religion and philosophy
............................................

Ranto,

You are being your usual pathetically presumptuous self if you imagine that my knowledge of that word owes anything to you.

Then there are those who would like others to believe that being forced into an ethnic straitjacket not of your choice for the benefit of some elite is the epitome of individualism. It takes all types …

#58 Posted by masadi and other posts.

I can understand your umbrage and Jinnah being a lackey. But I think the word lackey is too socialistic. I remember reading that often in the soviet literature where everyone was a lackey of imperialists. Now initially, I believed it but later on I realized that it is really not a suitable word to use for politicians. Yes, there are lackeys but they are not politicians. For politicians, it is making an alliance based on the current needs. The alliances go awry when needs are fulfilled.

Jinnah was as pro western as they come. He was perhaps the most pro western politician in the sub continent before Benazir attained maturity.

And that one reason makes me dispute Urstruly and Atif2’s claims that Jinnah wanted some sort of religious set up in Pakistan. That would be going against the grain and there was no way in hell he would have approved taking direction from GOD.

I don’t subscribe to the ideas of Mahatmas and Quaid azam. Politicians are politicians there is nothing saintly about politics so how come these guys become Mahatma or the quaid-e- azam? (btw, I agree with quaid e awam because it is a more earthly title even though the quaid-e- awam barely believed in awam but that is another issue).

Now once we bring these politicians to earthly level, we can deal with what they said on different occasions as part of the political expediency of that time or the audience a politician was working with.

If Gandhi had said something about Ram Rajia in India, I would have believed him because he shaped his political persona on something which was more in line with Hindu way of life.

Jinnah based his politics on what he believed in. As long as he believed in the progressive and nationalist pov, he stuck with that even though his opposition to Khalifat Movement brought his political downfall from the highs of 1916 when he was the ambassador of peace between the two communities.

Jinnah did rule Pakistan for at least some months and there is no evidence that he pursued the Islamic dream at that time. His letters to Pir sahib of Manki Sharif should really be taken as stock answers to the queries politicians get and most of those replies are written by their political secretaries.

Re: # 80

Sadna is obfuscating as usual by deliberately confusing the concept of citizenship with nationalism.... if there is to be such a thing as Pakistani nationalism, it can only be based on Pakistani citizenship.

In essence Sadna wants the Muslims who followed Jinnah to own up to even those like Maududi and JUH .. the latter in bed with the Congress. This is a ridiculous argument even for someone as inspired by jingoistic Indian bigotry as Sadna.


This is like the Pakistani establishment telling the Pushtuns :

"Pushtun" nationalism has to carry the burden of every Pushtun's ideology that Pushtuns choose to espouse. Ghaffar Khan keh gaye that what was non-Pushtun did not belong in "Pushtun" nationalism, and the corollary of that is all that was Pushtun does belong in "Pushtun" nationalism. Hence all the Pushtun Islamists are Pushtuns."

(And remember Ghaffar Khan was for most part allied with Deobandi Islamists pre-partition)...

as you have seen 16% of Indians believe that war is the only solution, pakistan is a small country it cannot survive a first strike, the moment an Indian leader makes up his mind, even before wepons are launched pakistan is doomed.

Prof. Hoodbhoy,
However wrong Maudoodi was, he was not a Hindu he was a Muslim. So how're you going to shut him out of Pakistani nationalism?

"Muslim" nationalism has to carry the burden of every Muslim ideology that Muslim Pakistanis choose to espouse. Jinnah keh gaye that what was nonMuslim did not belong in "Muslim" nationalism, and the corollary of that is all that was Muslim does belong in "Muslim" nationalism.

Apostatising is probably the only way to exclude Maudoodi. Good luck.

Re: # 75

Have some shame BJKumar... some time atleast. I hope for your sake that you are actually ignorant enough to believe what you just wrote because if you are not then you are utterly dishonest.

You don't understand two nation theory and therefore choose to interpret it in your narrow little way. And then to accuse a man like the Quaid-e-Azam - whose integrity and incorruptibility was beyond question even by his worst opponents- of doing it for personal reasons smacks of an ignorance that just cannot justified or forgiven.

And to think that this display of bigotry comes from the follower of the Racist Casteist Hindu fascist misogynist bigot Gandhi makes the whole thing even more ironic... the same Gandhi who believed black people were subhuman and that people of different castes should not eat together... talk about similarities to the Racist South... how about racist Gandhians?

Jinnah on the other hand stood unbendingly for the equality of man and equality of races... unlike "Mahatma" Gandhi who believed people of Indo-Germanic and Indo Aryan stock were superior to others.

A'null,

I am glad you read what I write so carefully and I am glad to have educated you so extensively. Be sure to write to Arend Lijphart to inform him of your enlightened views on the issue.

The "anti-individualistic" bent...the imposition of a forced national identity is equally anti-individualistic. Infact one would say that consociationalism is the epitome of individualism because it allows people to choose their identity without dealing with the self righteousness that comes with territory - yours that is.

And one day you wil see a true mard e momin will take over Pakistan or atleast its nukes and fulfill our obligations to allah and his faithfuls

Abu safwaan
The quran does not proscribe any laws for war other than when the life and property of muslims is violated, these have been repeatedly done so in India.

Nor does the quran tell us to fight only when we are prepared or when we can win, infact hazrat hussain's shahadat is an example of man who sacrificed himself and his whole family rather than accept "nahaq".

But most muslims today are cowardly they only want to defend their feloww muslims when they are ready or can win. Thousands of young men have wilingly sacrificed themselves in Kashmir and are an example to the rest of us. With nukes we are now well prepared and have to start larger scale rearmament other wise India with its nuclear ageement with the US will be far ahead.

And when ever India had superiority it attacked Pakistan and took away land- in 1947 during Partition and Kashmir and during 1971 and even after the first nuclear tests in 1998 there first reaction was to bully pakistan into accepting their terms.

This means keeping hindu duplicity and the quran's injunctions on protecting muslims we must nuke India foirst and reduce its economy to rubble.

But most muslims are cowards today they dont mind the young ghazis dying as long as their own lives are not endangered. we have to follow the example of hazrat hussain, their is no concept of surrender in the quran it enjoins us to fight the unjust until they submit as long as we did not begin the war, that is why their is still resistance in both irq and aghanistan.

This argument of resist only when ready and can win is an argument of Kufr and kafirs not of momins.

Islam zinda hota hai har Karbala ke baad

In my view, the state of Pakistan bears one hundred percent of the responsibility for the disastrous state of India-Pakistan relations – especially since 1989. That state is absolutely responsible for the sub continental edition of the scourge of international terrorism – particularly that directed at India.

The two nation theory was a lie fabricated by a dishonest human being masquerading as a lawyer for satisfying his personal lust for power! The two nation theory is no different from the racial apartheid of the South Africa of the past.

Every person who believes in the two nation theory – or looks the other way instead of denouncing it – every such person is little different from the racist bigot of the segregationist South! Shame on such persons! Most such bigots would deny being the bigots that they are – there are few bigots who are honest!

And the two nation theory can only stabilize as pair of nations of different religions – it shall forever be unstable as one secular country living like “friends” with a hostile, religion-centered, autocracy next door. Like baagh and bakree living together in Phantom’s land!

I don’t find it credible. Nature does not allow it.

Therefore, as long as Pakistanis keep clinging to a justification of the two nation theory – they will sooner or later attack India. They have no choice – because if they do not, then they become like India – then they are faced with the question – what the heck did we break apart for if we just end up like them?!

That is how I see it. But people like me do not matter – the more important fact is that vast majority of Indians (especially young Indians) are driven by common-sense and do not fall for what the Pakistanis preach!

In my view, the present status is unstable by its very nature. Over the longer term, only one will survive – either Pakistan will become like India – or India will become like Pakistan (its flip side). There are a few signs of the latter (Gujarat 2002) but a greater likelihood is of the former.

However, the current lot of Pakistanis is too gutless to own up to their own role in this sordid affair and their own culpability – so the world will have to wait for a change of mindset. I am personally doubtful that can happen soon – too many minds have been poisoned over too long a time – starting with the vamp!

If it does not happen – the next sixty years will be the pits – enough to make the past sixty years look like the golden age!