Jinnah and the Islamic State – Setting the Record Straight

Urstruly writes "if you promise that when my brother will visit England the King of England will welcome him at the airport as well"."

Should I add nepotism to the list of "verbal dysentry"? My advice to you: Don't worship people, and criminals at that, worship your creator.

...hmmmm......jinnah mentioned islam, quran etc. in his speeches regarding pakistan so many times.......however it is only, "reputed that Jinnah privately pledged (to an American diplomat) that Pakistan would be a “secular state” (using these words)"......

this is something i have been trying to highlight on this site for ages...not because i want to support or oppose secularism, but because i think various people on this site distort history, to suit their agendas.......

......if one is going to use jinnah's speeches as a criteria for what pakistan should be, then surely, it would be a state with its foundations in some form of islam, without being a theocratic state......how that would work is for anyone to guess.....in a sense this is what it has been....a very moderate islamic state.......

but what does become clear is that he never asked or mentioned it to be a secular state....though it is, "reputed" that he mentioned it to an american diplomat.....

surely, this, "reputed" doesn't hold water against the various speeches he made where he mentioned islam and quran again and again.......does it?......

as i have said, if people want to push secularism or theocracy in pakistan, they ahve every right to do so.....however, using jinnah's words to do so is hypocrisy.......

Urstruly writes "He was anything but a lackey of British."

He was through and through a lackey of the British, who considered their system,(and that of the Ata Turk) culturally superior to that of the Muslims or the people of India, not to mention that his office of Governor General was even formally subservient to the King of England, Airport reception aside,Pakistan was a dominion not a sovereign republic.

I see the man as a hypocrite to whom was handed a country not to benefit the Muslims but to serve the Colonials who messed up our lives, to keep both India and Pakistan in check. He had a real part to play in the bloodshed that ensued. Call it verbal dysentry, I call it fact, the guy was no different to tahmed in his worship of all things Western...

The atif/echo/zeemax debate against manto is not about jinnah. Its all about their hatred of quadianis. They consider manto to be a closet quadiani. Hence his espousal of a secular jinnah is viewed as a devious strategy for quadianis to deny an islamic system in pakistan.

Its really sad to see so much religious hatred against one group of people; its almost bordering on a mass hysteria. Maybe they should leave pakistan and move to india.

Re: # 52

please spare Quaid-e-Azam from you verbal dysentery. He was anything but a lackey of British. The Daily Log at the archive of Governor Sindh secrateriat records this communication between the British Embassador and Quaid-e-Azam. The British Embassador at the visit of the brother of Duke of Gloucester requested Quaid to welcome him officially at the Karachi airport as Governor General in 1947. The Quaid's reply was "Sure I will welcome him at the airport if you promise that when my brother will visit England the King of England will welcome him at the airport as well".

Manto mian, I don't work at GC, spare yourself the trouble, just call and ask, and spare us the Jinnah BS....

respectfully submitted

PH writes "But Jinnah’s statements at different times and circumstances are far too widely spread out "

Like most hypocritical politicians, the Jinnah man spoke all across the board for political expediency. When religious identity was evoked for exclusion, Jinnah became an Islamist. When unity was desired to save the political union, Jinnah became a secularist. In truth he was as most worshippers of the West a true hypoc-arist....So while the damn fools(like PH and the Zia ul Haq) argue whether he was an Islamist or a secularist the fact of the matter is that he used Islam as legitimation (a disrespect of Islam) while being firmly in bed with the colonials answering to their King, as Governor General (a disrespect to the so called "independance"). We would be best served to let the Jinnah man rest in his grave, his creator will judge him for what he was worth, while we let the FerozK worry about whether its Saville Row or Seville Row that tailored Jinnah's suits..Let us get on with the business of the real issues on hand today. People like Manto are a pathetic waste of good intelligence as they spend their lives worshipping men who mean sh** in the current day Pakistan....

Re: # 41

Well clearly then the problem was one of phraseology.

It seems to me that both Atif mian and Urstruly pai jaan didn't bother to read the article...

Can someone explain this...

Jinnah has been often been accused of being communitarian.

At the risk of being a party pooper, I put here some quotes of Jinnah. I realize that the likes of academically dishonest professor would argue that Jinnah was drunk when here uttered these, or was disoriented, under duress, or perhaps some mullah held a gun to his head. But the fact of the matter is that Jinnah did say this "damning" things about implementation of Islam, not just at "individual" level, but at "collective" level as, and in "every department" of our society. It sounds to me that these proclamations of his are far more clear and crisp than the interpretation ladden and stretched arguments regarding "minority rights" that dishonest professor brings forward as proof of Jinnah's "secularism"...

Jinnah sounds to me more like Maulana Muhammad Ali Jinnah.


Exhibit A
"Every Musalmaan, except those who are ignorant, knows that the Quran is the general code of the Muslims. A religious, social, civil, commercial, military, judicial, criminal, penal code, it regulates everything from the ceremonies of religion to those of daily life; from the salvation of the soul to the health of the body; from the rights of all to those of each individual; from morality to crime, from punishment here to that in the life to come. Therefore Islam is not merely confined to the spiritual tenets and doctrines or rituals and ceremonies. It is a complete code regulating the whole Muslim society, every department of life, collective[ly] and individually."
- Jinnah , Eid message on September 1945

Exhibit B
It is my belief that our salvation lies in following the golden rules of conduct set for us by our great lawgiver, the Prophet of Islam. Let us lay the foundations of our democracy on the basis of true Islamic ideals and principles
- Jinnah(Civil, Naval, Military and Air Force Officers at Khaliqdina Hall Karachi on 11th October 1947)

Exhibit C
What is it that keeps the Muslims united as one man, and what is the bedrock and sheet-anchor of the community. It is Islam. It is the Great Book, Quran, that is the sheet-anchor of Muslim India. I am sure that as we go on there will be more and more of oneness, one God, one Book, one Prophet and one Nation
- Jinnah (All-India Muslim League, Karachi on 26th December)

Hoodbhoy-

you said it.

More than 50 percent Pakistanis living NOW want Shariah. The writing is on the wall. You would be forced to live under it.
Be ready to get your head chopped off for apostasy NOW.

QUAID'S VISION AND DIRECTIVE OF THE ECONOMY OF PAKISTAN

Before we go into details let me elaborate on the difference between ``vision`` and ``direction``. We can define vision as the ultimate goal of a person whereas ``direction`` is the way or it is the plan thru which you achieve that vision or that goal. Without a vision there is no plan and there can be no direction, and without a plan and a clear direction you cannot bring a vision into reality.

Now lets apply this parameter to analyze the August 11 speech of Quaid. Any fair minded person can see and then attest that thru that speech Quaid is putting forward the vision of a tolerant state based on principles of social justice. He envisions a state where personal faith of a minority has no bearing on its status in polity. But this speech falls short of giving a ``plan`` or a ``direction`` as to how Quaid intended to turn his vision into a reality. When a person is in a leadership position he cannot just tell people ``hey people establish social justice among yourself because it is my vision``. Instead he HAS to give a work plan and the direction to the people on how to get there. Therefore, in order to see what Quaid`s plan was, as to how to achieve his vision we cannot rely on just one (August 11) speech. We must also see how he directed people.

For Example, Quaid was a great proponent of economic social justice and at many places he pointed out the economic disparity among the masses. So we know that an economically just society was his vision, but what was his direction? We see that his direction to those people who were charged with establishment and implementation of his envisioned economic policy was as follows. In an address on the occasion of opening of State Bank of Pakistan on July 1, 1948 he addressed state bank personnel as:


"I shall watch with keenness the work of your Research Organisation in evolving banking practices compatible with Islamic ideals of social and economic life. The economic system of the West has created almost insoluble problems for humanity and to many of us it appears that only a miracle can save it from disaster that is now facing the world. It has failed to do justice between man and man and to eradicate friction from the international field. On the contrary, it was largely responsible for the two world wars in the last half century, The Western world, in spite of its advantages of mechanization and industrial efficiency is today in a worse mess than ever before in history. The adoption Western economic theory and practice will not help us in achieving our goal of creating a happy and contented people. We must work our destiny in our own way and present to the world an economic system based on true Islamic concept of equality of manhood and social justice. We will thereby be fulfilling our mission as Muslims and giving to humanity the message of peace which alone can save it and secure the welfare, happiness and prosperity of mankind."

By any stretch of imagination, this cannot be a message and direction of a leader who espoused ideals of a secular democracy. Now read the clauses of the Objectives Resolution in the post below and see how Quaid gave direction to establish social justice among ourselves.

THE VISION OF MY QUAID

Quaid-e-Azam Mohammad Ali Jinnah said while addressing the people of United States in a broadcast message, few months before he died, February, 1948.


"The constitution of Paksitan has yet to be framed by the Paksitan Constituent Assembly. I do not know what the ultimate shape of this constitution is going to be, but I am sure that it will be of a democratic type, embodying the essential principles of Islam. Today, they are applicable in actual life as they were 1300 years ago. Islam and its idealism has taught us democracy. It has taught equality of man, justice and fair play to everybody. We are the inheritors of these glorious tarditions and are fully alive to our responsibilities and obligations as framers of future constitution of Pakistan. In any case Paksitan is not going to be a theocratic state - to be ruled by priests with a divine mission. We have many non-Muslims - Hindus, Christians, and Parsis - but they are all Pakistanis. They will enjoy the same rights and privileges as any other citizens and will play their rightful part in the affairs of Pakistan


THE EMBODIMENT OF QUAID`S VISION

One year later, in March 1949, the vision of Quaid-e-Azam was embodied in the Objectives Resolution in these words:



1. Whereas sovereignty over the entire universe belongs to Allah Almighty alone and the authority which He has delegated to the State of Pakistan, through its people for being exercised within the limits prescribed by Him is a sacred trust;

This Constituent Assembly representing the people of Pakistan resolves to frame a Constitution for the sovereign independent State of Pakistan;

2. Wherein the State shall exercise its powers and authority through the chosen representatives of the people;

3. Wherein the principles of democracy, freedom, equality, tolerance and social justice as enunciated by Islam shall be fully observed;

4. Wherein the Muslims shall be enabled to order their lives in the individual and collective spheres in accordance with the teachings and requirements of Islam as set out in the Holy Quran and the Sunnah;

5. Wherein adequate provision shall be made for the minorities to (fully) profess and practice their religions and develop their cultures;

6. Wherein the territories now included in or in accession with Pakistan and such other territories as may hereafter be included in or accede to Pakistan shall form a Federation wherein the units will be autonomous with such boundaries and limitations on their powers and authority as may be prescribed;

7. Wherein shall be guaranteed fundamental rights including equality of status, of opportunity and before law, social, economic and political justice, and freedom of thought, expression, belief, faith, worship and association, subject to law and public morality;
Wherein adequate provisions shall be made to safeguard the legitimate interests of minorities and backward and depressed classes;

8. Wherein the independence of the Judiciary shall be fully secured;

9. Wherein the integrity of the territories of the Federation, its independence and all its rights includ-ing its sovereign rights on land, sea and air shall be safeguarded;

So that the people of Pakistan may prosper and attain their rightful and honored place amongst the nations of the World and make their full contribution towards international peace and progress and happiness of humanity.

PAKISTAN KA MATLAB KIA, LA ILAHA IL-ALLAH

Dr. Hoodbhoy,

With all due respect, please stay focused on future and how to get there.

We already have too many on Chowk to tell us about past heroes, what they said and even what they meant.

Regards.

Well written Hoodbhoy Sahib, but a tad too long.

Maybe too much is made of the past in Pakistan

because the present appears uncertain. It is time

to think seriously about what the future is going to

look like.

Ras