Jinnah and the Islamic State – Setting the Record Straight

and for god sake ...forget about the


cocept of


Akhand Bharat


in the sugar caoting of


we were same....

lets unite again


lets open the borders


lets have joint films industry


lets have joint holi and rakhi


lets have joint commerce and trade



as they know...


we are now nuclear power...so instead of war....

kill muslims by joint culture dramai bazi...


mind it....


we have nothing common in culture....


muslims girls are pearls..in hijaab....


they dont dance shamelessly ..as indian girls..


our nothing is common....


forget about that ...pakistan ..will ver ..be in the colours of indian..culturally...


just forget about taht...

Re: # 313

Muslims can sacrifice the whole indian land on one sand grain of Medina ....

we can left india..even our life ...not Islam..mind it...


who the hell anyone to suggest that muslims should take off thier islam...

who the hell you are to suggest " Mixing" of inter faith...


we are different

we were different...


and we will remain as different..

there is nothing common between you and us...

no matter that if hese indians muslims live with you...for 1000 years...


there is nothing common ....

our faith and ideology..is far far most important thing to us....


we send LANAT to Dharti Mata concept...

#310 Posted by echoboom

[But Ajeya lately the way the neighborhoods are getting segregated in certain cities on communal basis is really frightening. It bodes a future for muslims like Palestinians in Israel.]

I can tell you as a Hindu that your fears are 100% unfounded. Yes, 100%.

Hindus are not out to convert anyone, so there is no question of "hating" anyone unless there is a perceived threat. The common Hindus are rather cowlike in their tolerance.

I think if Muslims stopped wearing their religion on their sleeve, it would help things a lot. You can't tell a person if he is Hindu or Christian - but you can say if he is Muslim by the way many Muslims choose to dress. It is not only freedom to wear anything you want - some people also do it as a defiant statement of their religiosity. Of course, some people will always dress in the traditional religious way, but the majority should blend in.

There should also be a general awakening in the Muslim community - and people speaking up against things like terrorism. They should stop talking about "root cause" and "muslim anger" and just concentrate on the here and now.

None of this would be permanent without a major edit of the koran and your prophet's life story.

None of this will probably ever happen, but one can always wish.

# various by Yasser and Rozaiba

The very fact that you're so eager to agree with zeemax, whom you termed an Islamist just a few posts earlier, just shows how well you've turned taking U-turns into an art in itself.

#248 Posted by zeemax

It was the Muslim Sub-Continent and later the British-Subcontinent in over a thousand years, and pagan before that. There was never any Bharat Maata. So what's the problem if Muslims chose to just take the North West for themselves as Pakistan?

Sorry, but I beg to disagree. Muslims controlled India for almost 800 years just as the British ruled it for a couple of hundred years later. But a large part of Muslim have roots in India going back several centuries which is why for all pratical purposes, they ARE Indians. And yes, we're OK with NW India being called Pakistan, we're all better off for it.

Why can't you accept it and work as S. Asians together with Islamists or whoever controls Pakistan?

Just what makes you think we haven't accepted it? The proponents of the "Akhand Bharat" theory are a few loonies whom nobody, not even a diehard Hindu, would take seriously. On Chowk, only Pakis seem to take it seriously. Have you noticed any Indian advocate it?

What's your problem with Pakistan when it isn't even a 'theocracy' nor likely to become one?

So long as Pakistan leaves India alone, we would have absolutely no problem with it. India's problems with Pakistan arise because of Pakistan's support to Kashmiri terrorists.

Ayeja:

When I read this I too was surprised. If it was in Mumbai or Delhi it would not be "newsy" for me. West Bengal, Calcutta & Jyoti Basu mean a lot to me..and so does Kerala & generally the whole Tamil-Naad.

It is nice that you spoke up.

I myself posted a report by Dr. Israr Ahmed, a very fundamentalist mullah maulana and Aalim who has a very large
following in Pakistan, about his joy and appreciation for the non-muslims in Panjab whop went out of their way to help him have his jalsaas in the open. If I find it I'll post it again. He was very well received by the BJP government the & there was no sham Ooons photo-op type because Dr. Israr Ahmed is not in politics. The Ooons despise him because his Tanzeem-i-Islami organisation is immensely successful. I, like many others, learn a lot from his Quraan exegesis recorded on video. This should not let you think that I subscribe to him or his party in any way or form.


But Ajeya lately the way the neighborhoods are getting segregated in certain cities on communal basis is really frightening. It bodes a future for muslims like Palestinians in Israel. I have seen Exclusively Urdu-real estate sign boards just to hint that who should buy in those new sub-divisions. Similarly Exclusively Hindi sign boards steer
are meant to steer only hindus there. Only the Cosmopolitan areas , where the westoxicated KanjarRs congregate, are the signs only in english..to spit both on Hindus & muslims & with subtleness advising them to to go ahead & flaunt their maader-Rate & Maader-RUNS with impunity.

Clifton bi,

On June 28, 2001, the Supreme Court ruled that non-Muslims may vote for any candidate at the Union Council level for seats reserved for mayor, deputy mayor, laborers, farmers, and women. However, non-Muslims still are barred from voting for Muslim candidates who run for general seats. Three of the five rounds of elections already had occurred prior to this ruling. Few non-Muslims are active in the country's mainstream political parties. Christian and Hindu leaders conducted a boycott to protest against the system of separate electorates during the local elections.

#270 Posted by echoboom

[In India, many members of religious minority hide the signs of their faith to escape discrimination]

The job of Islamic communalists is to spread lies and hatred for the "other", i.e. non-muslims.

EVERYTHING this perverted liar says is untrue.

I have stayed in Calcutta for many years. It would be difficult to find a bunch of Indians who are less communal. Even today, every year, they celebrate the birthday of the famous Bengali Muslim poet Kazi Nazrul Islam. Bengali programs are sprinkled with themes and characters drawn from the Muslim community. There are several highly respected Muslim politicians in West Bengal, like A.G. Khan Chowdhury.

What this Islamist fails to mention are the following facts:

1) All the people he talks about are IMMIGRANTS from Bangladesh.

2) For the last several decades, the Communist Party has won its elections with the collusion of these people who, for the promise of a ration-card, were willing to do ANYTHING for the Communist Party. They would go around in bus-loads and vote for different politicians in different districts many times over.

3) Some of these thugs are so strong today, that they terrorize whom they want, when they want. Recently, even Buddhadeb Bhattacharya admitted that "something has to be done about this".

4) These illegal immigrants have taken over huge areas of land, and in a country that is short of resources, they are looked upon as intruders.

5) Combine with that the fact that these SAME people who are coming across now were the people who killed Hindus by the thousands during Partition, just because they were Hindus.

Put all of this together, and it is easy to see why there is a strong dislike for them in the state.

Last time I went to Calcutta, I remember, in the middle of a previously quiet middle-class educated neighbourhood, some Muslim immigrants had erected a pale-green monstrosity of a Mosque, with the usual loudspeakers attached at the top. It looked as out-of-place as the monstrous and alien ideology it represented.

Re: # 202

Rashid

I fully agree with the following statement of yours:

"His statement of "Pakistan is not going to be a theocratic state to be ruled by priests� is very significant, particularly when one notes the words -theocracy and priests -which is a clear reference to church (Iqbal also calls it a church), and its operatives who we know are shackled to the centuries old Sharia and believe it to be divine.
Significantly he differentiated between “Religion� and Islam where the dignity of mankind is supreme. And the State is charged with the responsibility of maintaining it."

But I don't agree with you when you hold Gandhi Ji responsible for bad blood among the Hindus and Muslims. It was in fact the humanity of Gandhi Ji which shook the very foundations of British Imperialism. Gandhi Ji, on his part, strived all his life for creating brotherly relations among Hindus and Muslim and gave his life even for that very cause.

Re: # 301

Echo ji,

thanks for the nasihat. You are a respected maulavi of the chowk. You daily sermons get unfortunately filtered by chowk, yet your persistence is remarkable and I admire you for that.
But Sir, your faith has been responsbile for the murder and genocide of my fore fathers. Whether it was your Ghazanavi or Akbar killing of idolators and destroying my temples was always extolled and mentioned with great pride in their own Namas and auto biographies. They all loved to butcher and behead my idolator fore fathers. They stopped only because they agreed to submit to your sword and paid the tax.
I am greatful to those Qazis and maulavis who showed mercy and declared us as Dhimmis. That allowed my fore fathers to survive. albeit as slaves.
No problem, at least the remnants of the idolator civilzation remained.
It would have been completely lost were it not for the coming of the Britishers and the occurence of 1857. The mullahs rejected the idolator Vedic Gods. The Britishers at least tried to appreciate them.
The difference between the muslim appreciation of idoaltors and that of the British was glaring.
Even in terms of law, the common law made every thing same-same. Now muslims cannot kill indiscriminately any idolator for propagating of for showing dis obefdience. All the nawabs lost their zimmas. They becamse servants of British who turned their Hadith prescribed Zimmas into Land-ownership.
1857 was a death blow for mullsh. Because they lost the control over idolators.
1947 was a resurgence of the mullah power. And it has taken 60 years for MMA to become a reality in Pakistan. The history of Islamic India is history of mullahs. Dara was killed at the behest of mullahs. Aurangzeb became a devil because of mullahs. Just as history of erstwhile Christian West was the history moulded by the Pope and Churches.

Bristishers certainly 'reformed' the hindusim. OUR LAWS were actually regressive. The common law is certainly a product of British mind - who drew a great amount from Roman law. I am proud to be associated with the Roman and call it MY OWN.
On the other hand I consider the Islamic law to be regressive and deserving contempt.
I have rejected the regressive parts of Smritis as out dated. However, it is time you also did the same with Quran and Hadiths.
The consequences of not doing so is glaring. Forget your FALSE pride. See the evil in what you call your OWN.
Reject Hudood laws!! Forget Shariah as a basis of modern nation state. Only when respected maulavi sahebs like you openly come forward and reject the hate verses of Quran and Hadith can we see the fasaad-e-momen turn into a mard-e-momeen.
I earnestly appeal to you to do this and then proudly claim to be a real muslim who does not keep on living in eternal conflict with the rest of the world.

Re: # 304

Hey arjun,

Nobody asked you if you were from Communist Party of Pakistan or not.

I know you are an atheist, probably meaning that you have hardly read and understood your own scriptures.

#301 Posted by echoboom on August 16, 2007 11:39:35 am

laddu is a troll...just like this dimag-i-rog guy...

Clifton: There is more affirmative justice for scheduled casts in India compared to Blacks in America. Try bringing about 50% reservation quota for blacks here in the US.

PS:
the prison population in US is overwhelmingly black due to bias in justice system - not so in case of dalits... dalits have the voting rights from the beginning where as blacks got that only recently...

Now, let's see what you pakis have done for your minorities and dalits - how about squat, nada :)... heck you guys don't even get to vote, with militart guy calling shots[ by proxy for Uncle Sam], not even a constitution... so what the heck!!!

Laddu:

Usualy your posts do not deserve a response but it is for orher's sake, for your fellow hindus especially that this reply is getting posted.

So the pride you are excuding is the pride of exchanging one master for the other? When was the last time you had your own laws? Or are you proud of the fact that it always takes an outsider to drill come sense in your head. Learning from outsiders on one's own terms, & arriving at conclusions to bring about change as a internal discussion, is way way different than being taught by dandaa & being forced to agree & then getting used to & then flaunting such slavery.
So did you WIN freedom, or were AWARDED freedom/Independance, or did you SNATCH freedom?...OR , as you so proudly emote, did you really choose your master this time by adopting:
1) their legal-system
their dress
their language
their Ideoalogy [otherwise called RELIGIONS..the OONS]
their food
their fashion

and then you extol your "heritage" as if you are a tourist, foriegn tourist, in your own backyard. You visit your own backwaters & backyard with the eye & ear of a FOREIGNER! & admire & shower praise on what is your own to begin with.
It is as if you visit tour children as a Heritage to be ovseved as a cultural practice & NOT as a give.

Those who rule & conquer never dance for the amusement of others..never bring out their family treasures to appreciated & approved by strangers. You guys do it always to get a nod of approval by a whiteskin & want to "attract" whiteskins so that you can pimp your motherland better. Ever ssen the Master trying to attract the Ba Ba Blacksheep to visit his homeland? No the Master knows how much the slave drools to be back in the kennels of England.

If your ancestors had fought the Huns, the greeks, the aryans, the Musalmaans & not fallen for the corrupt riches & good-life , & not considered material wealth as the sole measure of success today we would have been discussing hindu contribution to law..there is Zilch.

Notice the language on radio, tv, newspapers that despite the snskritisation almost all the words for Law are still arabie/farsi...How can you ever have the equivalent of Talaaque when you had no clue..you just "left" ( chhore diyaa)

You better learn a little bit more about yourself from your hindu compatriots ..right here on CHOWK.

of course - it is not "the same" level as in US... consideration has to be made for fact of much less resources, to be used on much larger number of people... admittedly it will take a while... it took US 100+ years of democracy... we don't have that many years, we have to do it sooner....much sooner