Jinnah and the Islamic State – Setting the Record Straight

Zee whether you are like it or not either it's true that your grandpa Gopinath converted to Islam therefore your ancestors were Hindu or you are mlench an outsider.

#232 by zeemax

I don't subscribe to this common ancestry theory. Hamidm2 does. We are a different people altogether, genetically.

Well, whether one subscribes to it or not, one cannot deny the fact that essentially we're the same people (OK, maybe not genetically, since that seems to offend you and many Pakis - associating with Kala Madrasis always seems to offend Pakis).

But if every individual is different from another, are we going to divide humanity further because of these differences and not make an attempt to live together? If so, how further?

#229 Posted by harish_hyd,

I don't subscribe to this common ancestry theory. Hamidm2 does. We are a different people altogether, genetically.

But yes, there's a cultural similarity, particularly amongst those Muslims of a Sufi bent of mind. Other than that, we love Indian music. So? I also love Jethro Tull.

PS: And Muslims in India continue to eat the cow while Hindus continue to worship it.

Clifton bi

you remind of Chris Rock's line: women exaggerate everything into apocalyptical terms... anybody having a dispute with them is actually out to do "destroy" them... :)

Either way - it's your funeral - so enjoy it... too much islam has already damaged various muslim communities around the world, more so in pakiland... and yet demand for more islamization is growing... talibanization is fast creeping over pakiland... so enjoy... :)

#227 by zeemax

Harish, look. Please understand once and for all. We eat the cow that you worship. Can that difference be trivialized as just 'communalism'?

Zee, was that one difference enough to override the hundreds of other similarities, including that of a common ancestry between us?

rozaiba,

If you can't answer the question below, then stand in the queue for canadian immigration (if you're not already one of those), and remain silent forever.

225 Posted by harish_hyd,

Harish, look. Please understand once and for all. We eat the cow that you worship. Can that difference be trivialized as just 'communalism'?

#224 Posted by rozaiba,

You didn't answer my question:

Can a law minister formulate laws? In this case Mandal?

#223 Posted by rozaiba

The overwhelming majority Muslim sentiment had become horrified by the display of overt religious piety and an embrace of caste-ist politics on part of Mr. Gandhi.

Here's what you said: "Secondly, no Ismaili-Shia in their right mind would risk annihilation at the hands of Maududi-ites and fight for the implementation of shariah laws which proclaim many Shia and Ismaili practices as shirk and deserving of a penalty. And Jinnah, being an Ismaili-Shia wasn't stupid."

This is between Muslims and Jinnah, but you had to bring Gandhi in. Can't get over that addiction with Gandhi, can you?

That was the primary reason, ie keeping the majority religion out of politics, Dalits like Mandal joined non-communal parties like the Muslim League.

Sure..the ML which campaigned for a separate nation on the basis of religious differences was non-communal and the Congress which called for a united India was communal. So what else is new?

Zeemax:

Can a Kafir lead and formulate laws on shariah? Jinnah thought Kafirs could do a better job then ulema-e-Islam and so appointed Mandal as the Law Minister. I think Jinnah's actions contradict shariah laws.

"Are you a Muslim?"

Just like MA Jinnah.

Harish:

"You seem to suggest that Jinnah was more concerned about his own personal safety than the overwhelming majority Muslim sentiment."

The overwhelming majority Muslim sentiment had become horrified by the display of overt religious piety and an embrace of caste-ist politics on part of Mr. Gandhi. That was the primary reason, ie keeping the majority religion out of politics, Dalits like Mandal joined non-communal parties like the Muslim League.

Manto's explained the rest.

#219 Posted by rozaiba

... Can a Kafir lead and formulate laws on shariah? Jinnah thought Kafirs could do a better job then ulema-e-Islam and so appointed Mandal as the Law Minister. I think Jinnah's actions contradict shariah laws.

If your understanding of democracy is that a law minister can formulate laws, then I can't help you.

Secondly, no Ismaili-Shia in their right mind would risk annihilation at the hands of Maududi-ites and fight for the implementation of shariah laws which proclaim many Shia and Ismaili practices as shirk and deserving of a penalty. And Jinnah, being an Ismaili-Shia wasn't stupid.

Sharia is one thing, Fiqah is another. You're probably confusing the two. Shariah is 'one'. Fiqahs are 'four'. We're talking about Shariah and not Fiqah. There's no disagreement amongst any sects of Muslims including Ismailis on Shariah.

Are you a Muslim?

No Harish mian,

Rozaiba is pointing out a simple fact that for example had Jinnah been visibly religious or instituted congregations as Mullahs asked him to, the ML would have fallen apart.

Thus... even to bring Muslims together you have to keep all discussions on Islam, Islamic law and theology out. It was not a question of his own personal safety because he was about to die and he knew it.

#219 by rozaiba

Secondly, no Ismaili-Shia in their right mind would risk annihilation at the hands of Maududi-ites and fight for the implementation of shariah laws which proclaim many Shia and Ismaili practices as shirk and deserving of a penalty. And Jinnah, being an Ismaili-Shia wasn't stupid.

You seem to suggest that Jinnah was more concerned about his own personal safety than the overwhelming majority Muslim sentiment. Is that what it is?

Zeemax:

"How does any of this contradict the Islamic Shariah-based system?"

Can a Kafir lead and formulate laws on shariah? Jinnah thought Kafirs could do a better job then ulema-e-Islam and so appointed Mandal as the Law Minister. I think Jinnah's actions contradict shariah laws.

Secondly, no Ismaili-Shia in their right mind would risk annihilation at the hands of Maududi-ites and fight for the implementation of shariah laws which proclaim many Shia and Ismaili practices as shirk and deserving of a penalty. And Jinnah, being an Ismaili-Shia wasn't stupid.