Jinnah and the Islamic State – Setting the Record Straight

lol...oh wow ...another about face ? mohar what happened about detroying islam in the name of bringing sanity and balance to the world? Why is it you always forget to tell hard core islamists that part of your story while cuddling upto them?

I also dont agree that your comments are a response to being needeled by liberals, tell me which liberal needled you into making that spiteful comment?

ps - btw your chris rock thing was funny.

#264 Posted by mohar11,

Oh let me not go into that again that how 1/7 India is Muslim and 1/6 India is achoot, and the rest are all rural less than a dollar a day types. That's 100%.

Is Noida and Gurgaon the 'hegemon'?

zee

Hindustan always existed. Hindu civilization is one of the oldest... I know the reason for your denial - but that's OK :)

The "needling" is done mostly from your side - usually done by your "liberals" and non-mullah rulers who have serious inferiority complex about who they are... we have only responded in kind...

India has no need to needle anybody... it's the 800 pound guerrilla in the neighborhood... it's the de facto hegemon...

Manto

Beej is beyond my understanding, really. I have no idea what he says. :)

Personally, I found the article nothing great in that it said nothing that was not known to many people (even if it was not argued on chowk explicitly). But because it was honest, it did present an opportunity for different people to recognize that they are not that far apart.

On Gandhi's role, manto, I do agree, although for a very different reason. I believe Hindu and Muslim religions and religious sensibilities are so diametrically opposite that one cannot invoke one without completely dividing the other.

Here's my hopefully not too controversial view: Hindus could NOT have done without Gandhi (exactly as he was), Muslims could NOT have lived with Gandhi.

#255 Posted by mohar11,

True Dr. Mohar, we don't lie. We only tell the truth, and you can deal with us because it is clear where we are coming from. The liberals only tell lies, and you don't know what they're saying to your face and what they're saying behind your back.

They're all self serving contemptible hypocrites.

zeemax,

As someone who knows rozaiba well, I can assure you that he is a fine gentleman who understands constitution very well.

#252/254 Posted by rozaiba,

You made a serious boo boo, and Manto rescued you. Say thanks to Manto and I will let it go.

You don't know head or tail of what you're talking about.

Regards.

Kaalchakra,

Even BJKumar and many Indians have described the article with unrestrained praise.

I wonder though if they paid close attention to this paragraph from the good doctor:

Jinnah has been often been accused of being communitarian. But ironically, as the late Eqbal Ahmad was wont to point out, it was Jinnah, then a Congress leader, who had warned against the spiritualization of Indian politics. Jinnah was adamantly opposed to the use by Gandhi of religious symbols in politics. He was right. A deeply divisive view of the world naturally emerged once the terms of discourse shifted in this way. As India approached independence, leaders of sectarian outlook and sentiments such as Sardar Vallabhai Patel and Rajendra Prasad gained commanding positions in the Congress.

#253 Posted by mohar11,

Though we disagree that Hindustan ever existed, we agree on the other point that we can keep the North West Corner and you won't needle us needlessly.

That's some progress (Thumbs Up Icon)

"This might end up being one of the most useful boards ever!"

So glad zee, rozaiba, and Manto clearly see the common ground. Working together, 'secularists' and 'Islamists' can do what they can not do alone. (Thumbs up icon here)

I have always thought of Zeemax as a thinking man. I am sure he also understands that using the word "secular" is not demonising Islam. Zee knows how proud I am of my Islamic heritage.

In any event... glad to see three Pakistanis agreeing on a fundamental point.

roz
[....It is not surprising you feel comfortable with religious fanatics...]

We are not... but then it can't become any worse than what pakiland has been under the non-mullah regimes... in fact, from our POV - a mullah-ruled pakiland becomses easier to handle...

Zeemax wrote:

"Yes I'm full of admiration for Joginder Nath Mandal, and regret that he didn't stay."

I was impressed with this comment. Sometimes I think we may be on the same page.

Because I also regret that Mandal didn't stay and left Pakistan because he found the objectives resolution with it's emphasis on one religion completely contrary to Jinnah's ideals. He left Pakistan heartbroken seeing it taken over by Maududi-ites.

zee

dude - india is always hinud land, 5000 years...even when muslims or brits ruled it, it's still hinud land, albeit occupied by foreign powers... which is why it's called hindustan... it will be always be the hinud land...

Now that said - we have no issues having a pakiland at the northwest corner... I think harish was pointing to the communal enmity generated in last decades and its associated issues... nothing more... we have no intention of taking the land back into the fold... you keep it - make it islamic or whatever... :)

Zeemax:

By all accounts I wrote formulate and not legislate. As Manto explains:

"A Law Minister's job is to formulate bills and propose laws from the government's point of view."

Thus Jinnah chose a Pakistani Kafir to formulate bills and propose laws for his government. This says a lot about Jinnah ie Kafirs can lead a Muslim nation. It also highlights the dishonesty and mala fide intentions of those who proclaim Jinnah wanted to put in Shariah laws.



Harish:

It is not surprising you feel comfortable with religious fanatics.

#250 Posted by MantoLives,

Yes I'm full of admiration for Joginder Nath Mandal, and regret that he didn't stay. Just as I am full of admiration for Sir Ganga Ram, whose hospital's name no one will ever dare change.

We agree on more than you think, Manto. It's just that demonising Islam is not acceptable ... in any shape or form. Then we guys go completely wild. It's just one of those things.