Jinnah and the Islamic State – Setting the Record Straight

Can someone explain this...

Jinnah has been often been accused of being communitarian.

It seems to me that both Atif mian and Urstruly pai jaan didn't bother to read the article...

Re: # 41

Well clearly then the problem was one of phraseology.

PH writes "But Jinnah’s statements at different times and circumstances are far too widely spread out "

Like most hypocritical politicians, the Jinnah man spoke all across the board for political expediency. When religious identity was evoked for exclusion, Jinnah became an Islamist. When unity was desired to save the political union, Jinnah became a secularist. In truth he was as most worshippers of the West a true hypoc-arist....So while the damn fools(like PH and the Zia ul Haq) argue whether he was an Islamist or a secularist the fact of the matter is that he used Islam as legitimation (a disrespect of Islam) while being firmly in bed with the colonials answering to their King, as Governor General (a disrespect to the so called "independance"). We would be best served to let the Jinnah man rest in his grave, his creator will judge him for what he was worth, while we let the FerozK worry about whether its Saville Row or Seville Row that tailored Jinnah's suits..Let us get on with the business of the real issues on hand today. People like Manto are a pathetic waste of good intelligence as they spend their lives worshipping men who mean sh** in the current day Pakistan....

Manto mian, I don't work at GC, spare yourself the trouble, just call and ask, and spare us the Jinnah BS....

respectfully submitted

Re: # 52

please spare Quaid-e-Azam from you verbal dysentery. He was anything but a lackey of British. The Daily Log at the archive of Governor Sindh secrateriat records this communication between the British Embassador and Quaid-e-Azam. The British Embassador at the visit of the brother of Duke of Gloucester requested Quaid to welcome him officially at the Karachi airport as Governor General in 1947. The Quaid's reply was "Sure I will welcome him at the airport if you promise that when my brother will visit England the King of England will welcome him at the airport as well".

The atif/echo/zeemax debate against manto is not about jinnah. Its all about their hatred of quadianis. They consider manto to be a closet quadiani. Hence his espousal of a secular jinnah is viewed as a devious strategy for quadianis to deny an islamic system in pakistan.

Its really sad to see so much religious hatred against one group of people; its almost bordering on a mass hysteria. Maybe they should leave pakistan and move to india.

Urstruly writes "He was anything but a lackey of British."

He was through and through a lackey of the British, who considered their system,(and that of the Ata Turk) culturally superior to that of the Muslims or the people of India, not to mention that his office of Governor General was even formally subservient to the King of England, Airport reception aside,Pakistan was a dominion not a sovereign republic.

I see the man as a hypocrite to whom was handed a country not to benefit the Muslims but to serve the Colonials who messed up our lives, to keep both India and Pakistan in check. He had a real part to play in the bloodshed that ensued. Call it verbal dysentry, I call it fact, the guy was no different to tahmed in his worship of all things Western...

...hmmmm......jinnah mentioned islam, quran etc. in his speeches regarding pakistan so many times.......however it is only, "reputed that Jinnah privately pledged (to an American diplomat) that Pakistan would be a “secular state” (using these words)"......

this is something i have been trying to highlight on this site for ages...not because i want to support or oppose secularism, but because i think various people on this site distort history, to suit their agendas.......

......if one is going to use jinnah's speeches as a criteria for what pakistan should be, then surely, it would be a state with its foundations in some form of islam, without being a theocratic state......how that would work is for anyone to guess.....in a sense this is what it has been....a very moderate islamic state.......

but what does become clear is that he never asked or mentioned it to be a secular state....though it is, "reputed" that he mentioned it to an american diplomat.....

surely, this, "reputed" doesn't hold water against the various speeches he made where he mentioned islam and quran again and again.......does it?......

as i have said, if people want to push secularism or theocracy in pakistan, they ahve every right to do so.....however, using jinnah's words to do so is hypocrisy.......

Urstruly writes "if you promise that when my brother will visit England the King of England will welcome him at the airport as well"."

Should I add nepotism to the list of "verbal dysentry"? My advice to you: Don't worship people, and criminals at that, worship your creator.

jinnah was a vain man, wether he did something for us muslims is doubtful, he let Kashmir and its muslims come under paleet hindu rule and also left millions of muslims and most of the territory our ancestors had conquered behind.

He also took a "moth eaten" territory in two parts which could not be defended and promptly appointed himself governor general

Thank god he has become irrelevnt and we can now make pakistan into a sharia state as our majority demands.

The first act has to be to nuke india and free kashmir, let us see if India has second strike capability.

#59 don't call yourself Muslim after you call for the nuking people. You are no Muslim, you're a pervert probably an RSS type who is acting out his believed caricature of Islam and Muslims. People like you, the current day "Jihadists" are Jinnah's blood brothers as are the rest of the West worshippers, you all form an unholy Trinity of perversion, for you help the West, the US elite, the Shaitan of the present, fulfil its perverse agenda around the globe.

You are the crusaders image of Islam brought to life. Like I said earlier, these so-called "Jihadists" take their morality from the US elite both are trigger happy when its comes to "nuking" people

Pakistan should follow example of turkey and Malaysia to keep islamists out of power as long as possible, there are number of ways it can be done.

Promote moderate islam by sarkari mullahs.

The british policy of divide and rule, so that mullahs do not see interest in common together and challenge liberal rulers with a united front.

Masadi beemar tu hai har jagah tujhe US elite dikhta hai, you are the western tool, preventing the sharia from being implemented. hindus are killing and opressing muslims and hurting pakistan and you want them to continue doing so. Also they have nukes which they will use against us so we must do a first strike.

or you disagree with what islam teaches us - Shahadat hai matloob e maqsood e momin na male ghanimat na kishwar ka shahi

hai islam iske siva kya
ek sijdah shabbiri
ek zarbe yadillahi

#62, look idiot, don't try to present your BS as if that were the real world situation. Just like Jinnah you are trying to legitmize your own perversions (and foolish designs) by invoking "Hindus are killing Muslims", no "poverty is killing Muslims" in a world system dominated by the US elite that ensures that poverty just as that poverty is killing Hindus.

I don't listen to Iqbal or Mullah dopiyaza to teach me Islam, my source, as the only legitimate source of Islam, is the Quran and it is explicit that you are only allowed to fight those who attack you first and even then only to the extent of the aggression. And further that if you kill one unjustly it is as if you've destroyed all humanity. There is no justification left for "first strike" or for using nuclear weapons in Islam. First learn what "Shariah" means before you talk about "implementing" it by force. Finally Islam is not about nihilism, its about celebrating God's gifts, including life, and working for social justice (using just means not "nuking") in this world. Learn what it is about before you use it as a slogan, you little rat.

so punk what are hindus doing to muslims in gujrat, kahmir and other spots in india, social justice?

listen u snivelling rodent islam enjoins upon every adult muslim male to protect his brother under attack if u are too cowardly o do that, thats your conscience that you have to satisfy and justify with whatever story about the US elite, but we as true muslims have to face allah after death and have to justify our conduct only to him an god knows we will do our duty as enjoined upon us by the quran.