Jinnah and the Islamic State – Setting the Record Straight

Dear Zee,

You may read the Minorities' 30 points that were unveiled on 11th August 1947. You will find that many of those demands are simply the kind of things Muslims were asking for in a United India...

Re: # 32

If you agree with that statement then you've gotten the basic idea.

Re: # 33

Excuse me... 11th August 2007.

#34 Posted by MantoLives,

I haven't read the 30 demands, but I think most of those relate to the blasphemy laws whic I explained. Can you reproduce the demands here?

Re: Mantolives,
"I believe the whole idea behind Pakistan was to have such a state ... which was like any other state secular but where civic Islamic ethics shaped the general legal morality."
This is indeed the middle ground on which "Islamists" and "secularists" can agree. But it would be misleading to call this secular. Secularists want more. They want exclusion of religion from public life. They want to exclude prayer and religious instruction from public schools. They want to secularize religious public holidays. They object to religious laws even if arrived at democratically (and don't discriminate or violate basic rights). It's not just an issue of non-discrimination and equality (both sides can agree on that). Secularists want to establish secular humanism as the 'religion' of the state. That's where the conflict is.

there is no state in the world that is purely secular.....pure secularism demands absolutely no mixture of any religion in the state.......based on this definition, certain states lean towards secularism, moreso than others.......however, none of them completely separate state and religion......

.....a gay couple can get married in secular canada, but not in secular usa......cousins can get married, legally, in secular canada, but not in half the states in the usa.....however, if pakistan was to be secular, i have a feeling gay marriage would never be allowed, but cousin marraige would never be illegal.....

all these are examples of mixing religion with the state, at some percentage......all states do it.....some more than others.....some less......

hence, how secular should pakistan be if it does become secular........should it allow sunnis to get married to ahmedis......if one says yes, then should it allow a sunni man to get married to an ahmedi man and provide him with all state benefits.....

this is why there is a lot of hypocrisy on both sides - those pushing secularism and those pushing religion......these groups don't really believe in either as a philosophy.......they only believe in these two concepts, to the level they want to.......those pushing shariah will push secularism when it suits them......iran uses shariah to ban women playing soccer in shorts, but has no problem in men doing so......

while those pushing secularism will push religion when it suits them.......pakistani secularists have no problem in pushing ahmedi rights, but stop short of fighting for gay rights.......in fact, i have yet to see any pakistani writing in favor of gay marriage, even though there are probably far more gays in pakistan than ahmedis (or even christians and hindus)......

Re: # 37

Bulleya, Khurram,

Now you've got it. The issue is of irreducible minimum. When Pakistani secularists speak of a secular state, they mean a state which will be impartial to the faith of the citizen.

Pakistani secularists like myself atleast don't envisage a thumping ban on religious expression or even state recognition of majority's ethos which will in any secular democratic society be the basis of legislation.

Just like in Secular India, the ethos will ultimately be determined by the Hindu values... in a secular Pakistan it is Islam and its civic code and ethos.

Specifically on the issue of Gay marriages etc... personally to me a person's sexual orientation is purely his business ... but my vision of a secular Pakistan is NOT determined by my ideas and I do not forsee nor do I see a need to legislate on the issue of gay marriage in any event in a society like Pakistan.

This might end up being one of the most useful boards ever! The article itself is totally useless. It does not say anything that those who have even a nodding acquaintance this debate did not all know before. But it is honest and comes at a time when people are looking for some change.

It might even be useful for Indians! We should carefully study the 30 point demands and use those as the basis of the rights of our own minorities.

Re; #39 mantolives,
"Now, you've got it"

Lol!
Yasser, with due respect, now you've got it. If you check the archives I have been saying the same thing for years. Nice to see you finally agree.

Does APMA have a website? Tried googling for their charter of demands, without success. Can anyone list their demands, please? Thanks.

Well written Hoodbhoy Sahib, but a tad too long.

Maybe too much is made of the past in Pakistan

because the present appears uncertain. It is time

to think seriously about what the future is going to

look like.

Ras

Dr. Hoodbhoy,

With all due respect, please stay focused on future and how to get there.

We already have too many on Chowk to tell us about past heroes, what they said and even what they meant.

Regards.

THE VISION OF MY QUAID

Quaid-e-Azam Mohammad Ali Jinnah said while addressing the people of United States in a broadcast message, few months before he died, February, 1948.


"The constitution of Paksitan has yet to be framed by the Paksitan Constituent Assembly. I do not know what the ultimate shape of this constitution is going to be, but I am sure that it will be of a democratic type, embodying the essential principles of Islam. Today, they are applicable in actual life as they were 1300 years ago. Islam and its idealism has taught us democracy. It has taught equality of man, justice and fair play to everybody. We are the inheritors of these glorious tarditions and are fully alive to our responsibilities and obligations as framers of future constitution of Pakistan. In any case Paksitan is not going to be a theocratic state - to be ruled by priests with a divine mission. We have many non-Muslims - Hindus, Christians, and Parsis - but they are all Pakistanis. They will enjoy the same rights and privileges as any other citizens and will play their rightful part in the affairs of Pakistan


THE EMBODIMENT OF QUAID`S VISION

One year later, in March 1949, the vision of Quaid-e-Azam was embodied in the Objectives Resolution in these words:



1. Whereas sovereignty over the entire universe belongs to Allah Almighty alone and the authority which He has delegated to the State of Pakistan, through its people for being exercised within the limits prescribed by Him is a sacred trust;

This Constituent Assembly representing the people of Pakistan resolves to frame a Constitution for the sovereign independent State of Pakistan;

2. Wherein the State shall exercise its powers and authority through the chosen representatives of the people;

3. Wherein the principles of democracy, freedom, equality, tolerance and social justice as enunciated by Islam shall be fully observed;

4. Wherein the Muslims shall be enabled to order their lives in the individual and collective spheres in accordance with the teachings and requirements of Islam as set out in the Holy Quran and the Sunnah;

5. Wherein adequate provision shall be made for the minorities to (fully) profess and practice their religions and develop their cultures;

6. Wherein the territories now included in or in accession with Pakistan and such other territories as may hereafter be included in or accede to Pakistan shall form a Federation wherein the units will be autonomous with such boundaries and limitations on their powers and authority as may be prescribed;

7. Wherein shall be guaranteed fundamental rights including equality of status, of opportunity and before law, social, economic and political justice, and freedom of thought, expression, belief, faith, worship and association, subject to law and public morality;
Wherein adequate provisions shall be made to safeguard the legitimate interests of minorities and backward and depressed classes;

8. Wherein the independence of the Judiciary shall be fully secured;

9. Wherein the integrity of the territories of the Federation, its independence and all its rights includ-ing its sovereign rights on land, sea and air shall be safeguarded;

So that the people of Pakistan may prosper and attain their rightful and honored place amongst the nations of the World and make their full contribution towards international peace and progress and happiness of humanity.

PAKISTAN KA MATLAB KIA, LA ILAHA IL-ALLAH

QUAID'S VISION AND DIRECTIVE OF THE ECONOMY OF PAKISTAN

Before we go into details let me elaborate on the difference between ``vision`` and ``direction``. We can define vision as the ultimate goal of a person whereas ``direction`` is the way or it is the plan thru which you achieve that vision or that goal. Without a vision there is no plan and there can be no direction, and without a plan and a clear direction you cannot bring a vision into reality.

Now lets apply this parameter to analyze the August 11 speech of Quaid. Any fair minded person can see and then attest that thru that speech Quaid is putting forward the vision of a tolerant state based on principles of social justice. He envisions a state where personal faith of a minority has no bearing on its status in polity. But this speech falls short of giving a ``plan`` or a ``direction`` as to how Quaid intended to turn his vision into a reality. When a person is in a leadership position he cannot just tell people ``hey people establish social justice among yourself because it is my vision``. Instead he HAS to give a work plan and the direction to the people on how to get there. Therefore, in order to see what Quaid`s plan was, as to how to achieve his vision we cannot rely on just one (August 11) speech. We must also see how he directed people.

For Example, Quaid was a great proponent of economic social justice and at many places he pointed out the economic disparity among the masses. So we know that an economically just society was his vision, but what was his direction? We see that his direction to those people who were charged with establishment and implementation of his envisioned economic policy was as follows. In an address on the occasion of opening of State Bank of Pakistan on July 1, 1948 he addressed state bank personnel as:


"I shall watch with keenness the work of your Research Organisation in evolving banking practices compatible with Islamic ideals of social and economic life. The economic system of the West has created almost insoluble problems for humanity and to many of us it appears that only a miracle can save it from disaster that is now facing the world. It has failed to do justice between man and man and to eradicate friction from the international field. On the contrary, it was largely responsible for the two world wars in the last half century, The Western world, in spite of its advantages of mechanization and industrial efficiency is today in a worse mess than ever before in history. The adoption Western economic theory and practice will not help us in achieving our goal of creating a happy and contented people. We must work our destiny in our own way and present to the world an economic system based on true Islamic concept of equality of manhood and social justice. We will thereby be fulfilling our mission as Muslims and giving to humanity the message of peace which alone can save it and secure the welfare, happiness and prosperity of mankind."

By any stretch of imagination, this cannot be a message and direction of a leader who espoused ideals of a secular democracy. Now read the clauses of the Objectives Resolution in the post below and see how Quaid gave direction to establish social justice among ourselves.

Hoodbhoy-

you said it.

More than 50 percent Pakistanis living NOW want Shariah. The writing is on the wall. You would be forced to live under it.
Be ready to get your head chopped off for apostasy NOW.

At the risk of being a party pooper, I put here some quotes of Jinnah. I realize that the likes of academically dishonest professor would argue that Jinnah was drunk when here uttered these, or was disoriented, under duress, or perhaps some mullah held a gun to his head. But the fact of the matter is that Jinnah did say this "damning" things about implementation of Islam, not just at "individual" level, but at "collective" level as, and in "every department" of our society. It sounds to me that these proclamations of his are far more clear and crisp than the interpretation ladden and stretched arguments regarding "minority rights" that dishonest professor brings forward as proof of Jinnah's "secularism"...

Jinnah sounds to me more like Maulana Muhammad Ali Jinnah.


Exhibit A
"Every Musalmaan, except those who are ignorant, knows that the Quran is the general code of the Muslims. A religious, social, civil, commercial, military, judicial, criminal, penal code, it regulates everything from the ceremonies of religion to those of daily life; from the salvation of the soul to the health of the body; from the rights of all to those of each individual; from morality to crime, from punishment here to that in the life to come. Therefore Islam is not merely confined to the spiritual tenets and doctrines or rituals and ceremonies. It is a complete code regulating the whole Muslim society, every department of life, collective[ly] and individually."
- Jinnah , Eid message on September 1945

Exhibit B
It is my belief that our salvation lies in following the golden rules of conduct set for us by our great lawgiver, the Prophet of Islam. Let us lay the foundations of our democracy on the basis of true Islamic ideals and principles
- Jinnah(Civil, Naval, Military and Air Force Officers at Khaliqdina Hall Karachi on 11th October 1947)

Exhibit C
What is it that keeps the Muslims united as one man, and what is the bedrock and sheet-anchor of the community. It is Islam. It is the Great Book, Quran, that is the sheet-anchor of Muslim India. I am sure that as we go on there will be more and more of oneness, one God, one Book, one Prophet and one Nation
- Jinnah (All-India Muslim League, Karachi on 26th December)