Feroz Qutabshahi August 15, 2007
#17 Posted by IB on August 20, 2007 2:41:12 pm
Yaar Spain is a huge country – and as a Muslim when you visit Spain there certainly is a sense of excitement yet sadness over what happened in Spain.
Barcelona – surprisingly homes 25000 + Pakistani Community – which is quite dominant in Barcelona and as soon as you enter the centre of Barcelona (la’Rambla) you would know of our presence.
During my stay in Barcelona, Catalonia I found ‘not a single memorable Muslim architecture’ apart from the modern mosque recently constructed by Pakistanis, Moroccans and Bangladeshis. Upon my enquiries – to local Catalans (who don’t like to be called Spanish) – was that although they view Muslim Civilization as a great one and has contributed to the development of Spain – Muslims never came to the province of Catalonia – infact it was the last frontier; Muslims imposed Islamic Tax on Catalonian(s) which they accepted because they were wealthy enough to pay Muslims.
Okay – when I went to Madrid only then I came to know about the Muslim Heritage of Spain – although in bad state but there is a huge Arab/Berber influence on architecture in Spain and during my visit to the great mosque in Cordoba– I along with a group of Palestinians were stopped by the local police to pray inside. It was hearting to see that Alama Mohammad Iqbal was the last Muslim who was allowed by Spaniards to pray inside the great mosque.
Apart from Cordoba and Western Spain – it seems that the Spaniards systematically demolished Muslim architecture and influence; I saw lot of churches which used to be mosques before.
Talking to a average Joe on the streets in Madrid at least gave me a impression that Spaniards are proud to be Europeans and yes, they had misgivings against Muslims (that’s more to do with Moroccans – who are treated and acts the way blacks do in USA) – Spanish were concerned about immigration from Africa and yeah almost everyone were against US (there Socialist President – took a decision to call forces from Iraq – as soon as he came in power).
Barcelona – surprisingly homes 25000 + Pakistani Community – which is quite dominant in Barcelona and as soon as you enter the centre of Barcelona (la’Rambla) you would know of our presence.
During my stay in Barcelona, Catalonia I found ‘not a single memorable Muslim architecture’ apart from the modern mosque recently constructed by Pakistanis, Moroccans and Bangladeshis. Upon my enquiries – to local Catalans (who don’t like to be called Spanish) – was that although they view Muslim Civilization as a great one and has contributed to the development of Spain – Muslims never came to the province of Catalonia – infact it was the last frontier; Muslims imposed Islamic Tax on Catalonian(s) which they accepted because they were wealthy enough to pay Muslims.
Okay – when I went to Madrid only then I came to know about the Muslim Heritage of Spain – although in bad state but there is a huge Arab/Berber influence on architecture in Spain and during my visit to the great mosque in Cordoba– I along with a group of Palestinians were stopped by the local police to pray inside. It was hearting to see that Alama Mohammad Iqbal was the last Muslim who was allowed by Spaniards to pray inside the great mosque.
Apart from Cordoba and Western Spain – it seems that the Spaniards systematically demolished Muslim architecture and influence; I saw lot of churches which used to be mosques before.
Talking to a average Joe on the streets in Madrid at least gave me a impression that Spaniards are proud to be Europeans and yes, they had misgivings against Muslims (that’s more to do with Moroccans – who are treated and acts the way blacks do in USA) – Spanish were concerned about immigration from Africa and yeah almost everyone were against US (there Socialist President – took a decision to call forces from Iraq – as soon as he came in power).
#16 Posted by aslam644 on August 20, 2007 2:36:57 pm
if the present pakistani migration trends continue to the EU, in a decade or two there will be a mini pakistan in Greece, Italy, Spain and France,long may it continue.
#15 Posted by dullabhatti on August 20, 2007 2:20:45 pm
oye Qutabshahi, jadon tooN Greece di beach te tambOO taan ke sutta piya si, sacho sach das tainu saadi yaad ayee si ke nai?
#14 Posted by Salim_Chauhan on August 20, 2007 1:44:51 pm
Jang,
When I visited Spain several years ago, I found that the Great Mosque in Cordova was an immense, yet quite sad, remnant of the Islamic period. In Granada, certainly Alhambra is the place to see, but the view of the cool peak Moulayhacen is very soothing.
When I visited Spain several years ago, I found that the Great Mosque in Cordova was an immense, yet quite sad, remnant of the Islamic period. In Granada, certainly Alhambra is the place to see, but the view of the cool peak Moulayhacen is very soothing.
#13 Posted by jang on August 20, 2007 1:41:07 pm
Mr IB can you write about great islami architecture that is preserved in spain etc..thanks.
#12 Posted by IB on August 20, 2007 1:15:11 pm
I happen to stay in barcelona , catalonia - on my holidays from 17th July - 21 Sept,2006 . I found Catalans very anti-Spain at a same time very anti-America. Some Catalans I met were so extreme that they supported OBL ( which was shocking ) .
#11 Posted by Salim_Chauhan on August 20, 2007 12:12:51 pm
#9 jang {"the turks call it raki, ..."}
Jang,
At least Turks don't tie it around our sisters' wrists. :) What a waste of good nectar.
Jang,
At least Turks don't tie it around our sisters' wrists. :) What a waste of good nectar.
#10 Posted by Kulharee on August 20, 2007 11:57:03 am
Dear IB. the Islands we visited depend heavily on tourism and there are little chances of discussing politics with local. Most of our time was spent touring places or on the beach. However, when we go to mainland Greece and stay in my wife’s ancestral village there are plenty of opportunities to get to know the local political view (Greeks are big on conspiracy theories). Greeks also tend to be very theatrical and every little thing is turned into a major drama. Yep, there are Pakistanis and other Desis in Athens, but I didn’t see any on the Islands we visited.
I also found Greeks to be very anti-American (thank Bush) and also very pro Arab. That’s why gas in Greece is a lot cheaper there than in the rest of EU.
Jang Yaar.. Raki is no match for Mini or #7. Yep, Greeks stole it from Turks, but the variety in Greece is a lot better than what’s found in Turkey. The reality is that Greek just add an A or an O or an I at the end and claim everything as their own.. Tzatziki is Jajek in Turkiya. Please don’t tell it to my wife, but I personally liked Raki myself.
I also found Greeks to be very anti-American (thank Bush) and also very pro Arab. That’s why gas in Greece is a lot cheaper there than in the rest of EU.
Jang Yaar.. Raki is no match for Mini or #7. Yep, Greeks stole it from Turks, but the variety in Greece is a lot better than what’s found in Turkey. The reality is that Greek just add an A or an O or an I at the end and claim everything as their own.. Tzatziki is Jajek in Turkiya. Please don’t tell it to my wife, but I personally liked Raki myself.
#9 Posted by jang on August 20, 2007 11:50:54 am
kulharee, the turks call it raki, greeks call it ouzo. to an outsider like me, its tastes the same..like sounf. i think before turkiye joins the eu this has to be setteled ..is it the same or not.
#8 Posted by IB on August 20, 2007 11:41:03 am
Nice article - although would have been cool if you have edited it - its a long one to read - nevertheless good.
Kulharee bhai, how were the Greeks? there political point of views? any interactions? lot of Pakistanis in Athens now as well - PIA touches Athens.
Anyhow as they say 'what happens on holidays - remains on holiday'
I visited Spain, France, Germany, Belgium and Italy and the experiance was good . I would love to go to Greece,Cyprus and Turkey in times to come .
Nice writeup anyway mate!
Kulharee bhai, how were the Greeks? there political point of views? any interactions? lot of Pakistanis in Athens now as well - PIA touches Athens.
Anyhow as they say 'what happens on holidays - remains on holiday'
I visited Spain, France, Germany, Belgium and Italy and the experiance was good . I would love to go to Greece,Cyprus and Turkey in times to come .
Nice writeup anyway mate!
#7 Posted by Kulharee on August 20, 2007 10:54:13 am
Salim – no matter how much one may want to deny but the Ottoman stamp is all over Greece. I agree that there has been neglect in preserving some of the historic places, but I am very hopeful that it will change. The mosque in Chios and the adjacent cemetery was closed for heavy duty preservation work. I hope they continue to do that and preserve these priceless reminders of our history.
#6 Posted by Kulharee on August 20, 2007 10:47:01 am
I will share some pics that I took, once I figure out how to resize the photos and post them.
Atif, that’s very true in my experience as well. Some of the structures require really badly needed ‘preservation’ (not restoration or fixing). However, I would think that this inattention is not intentional on part of the Greek people.
Atif, that’s very true in my experience as well. Some of the structures require really badly needed ‘preservation’ (not restoration or fixing). However, I would think that this inattention is not intentional on part of the Greek people.
#5 Posted by Salim_Chauhan on August 20, 2007 10:46:23 am
Kulharee Payee,
Thank you for a very interesting and fascinating account of your travels. I agree with both you and Atif that the vacationing type should be limited to cruises in the Caribbean. As for the sad state of mosques and Muslim cemeteries, it is also a shame. Considering the destruction of the beautiful mosque in Banja Luka, almost all the mosques in Foca, and the fabulous Mimar Sinan bridge in Mostar in Bosnia, it is not surprising that Christians mistreat these priceless relics. I agree with Atif that the ancient mosque in Athens, just before you approach the Acroplis is now a church. That is quite a contrast to the Hagia Sofia, here in Istanbul, which is now a museum - thanks to Ataturk. Good article. Thanks again.
Thank you for a very interesting and fascinating account of your travels. I agree with both you and Atif that the vacationing type should be limited to cruises in the Caribbean. As for the sad state of mosques and Muslim cemeteries, it is also a shame. Considering the destruction of the beautiful mosque in Banja Luka, almost all the mosques in Foca, and the fabulous Mimar Sinan bridge in Mostar in Bosnia, it is not surprising that Christians mistreat these priceless relics. I agree with Atif that the ancient mosque in Athens, just before you approach the Acroplis is now a church. That is quite a contrast to the Hagia Sofia, here in Istanbul, which is now a museum - thanks to Ataturk. Good article. Thanks again.
#2 Posted by jang on August 20, 2007 8:56:26 am
cool stuff..made me all envious while i struggled with people with bad mass accent on beaches here. i remember reading some books about family and other animals a long time back..brought back those memories.
i agree that the greek wine tends to be razor-sharp.
i agree that the greek wine tends to be razor-sharp.
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