Rise of Hindu Right Wing Ideology

I cannot believe Chowk published this piece of cr@p. Is Chowk increasingly turning into a mirror immage of the Urdu press in Pakistan which until now had a monopoly over such BS?

And it is BJP not BJB, moron!

what a beautiful article by Hussain Abbas.....


Bravo Hussain....


your writings remind me ..of the fluency of the Lion of God...the Ali(ra)....


your insight touched us ..about the sppech of hussain(ra) in front of kufa..when he spoke the truth to these Kufis at Karbala....


your shear unveiling the truth brought us ..to the bravery of Abbas(ra) ...the Alamdar..and Flagman....



God bless you....



you have unleashed the whole scene what indians want...


but believe me...its the ending of this big elephant...



as once russia were broken into 26 pieces by ISI....


if india will remain on that way ..as hussain quoted....


surely..india will be shattered into 31 seperate states....


O indians wake up..and throw out all the BJP...the political wing of RSS out of india....


otherwise..you will drown ..with these drowning mad and crazies...

#2 by dawa-i-dil

as once russia were broken into 26 pieces by ISI....

Hahahahaha!!! Russia broken by ISI? Dawa mian (or is it bibi?), subah subah daroo maar ke aaye ho kya?

Re: # 3

harish bhayya ... merai pyarai bhayya....merai cutoo cutoo bhayya....merai

just try these links....


if you love hindi/urdu

http://www.sovietsdefeatinafghanistan.com/beartrap/urdu/index.htm



http://www.sovietsdefeatinafghanistan.com/silentsoldier/urdu/index.htm









if you love english...

http://www.sovietsdefeatinafghanistan.com/beartrap/english/index.h tm

http://www.sovietsdefeatinafghanistan.com/silentsoldier/english/index.htm





mairai sonai ..man mohanai bhayya ..enjoy it..
thanks
wasalam

Mr Abbas, you are clearly not an Indian, just from your spelling that becomes clear.
Why on earth has chowk found it fit to publish yet another article full of hate against India? I can't even start on the factual inaccuracies, so will just throw my hands up.If you're out of publishing matter, dilliwala will write something for you if you ask him nicely.

Indian Muslim of today feels alienated and in a classic catch 22 situation . What's his/her future is uncertain.
I remember from my visits to India - I had personally seen them atleast in Delhi and Fatehpur Sikri distibuting sweets at Pakistan N.Tests and Pakistan(s) Test Series Victory over India in 1999. And all this is because of restrictions on them - ( about cow meat / institutional racism / allotment of funds to muslim areas etc..) and obviously the incidents of Babri Mosque and Gujrat riots - was the nail in the coffin.

#4 by dawa-i-dil

Dawa ji, you quote a book written by a Paki and expect us to believe it? Pakis also claimed they won in Kargil, but the world thinks otherwise, no?

Re: # 5

no dear nb ...smell the coffee...

its not hatred

its the reality

that

Hussain Abbas unleashed

the young minds of indians are being polluted with all that....


that india for indians only...

muslims should leave islam...

become arya ver

and that idia for hindus....

muslims were previously hindus...

so they should leave islam...


and inter mix with hindus...

otherwisre they have to face what they facedat 20002 Gujrat by Nareender Moodi....

its 100% true....


BJP...

see what Adwani didi at Rath Yatra on 1992..and won elections..on Babri Mosque....


and again CM Gujrat is Nareender of BJP


why ????????????


you cannot negate all the facts....

but if this thing continue...


surely india will break soon ..like russia....


you cannot stop muslims....

see what happened to USA in Iraq....

and NATO in Afghanistan....

for god sake indians....

smell the coffee...

Re: # 6

I fully agree with you....

200 millions muslims are un secure in india...

so
whats the solution...


in my humble opinion...

its time for indians muslims...


to realize that....

demand a seperate land inside india ...

so that these poor can live in peace there....

its thier basic right...

how can you negate the basic right of

200 millions muslims...

Re: # 7
its also include a western expert..dude....

Brig. Yousaf was the ISI Afghan Desk incharge....

he fought this fight ..by his own...

tahst why he is world wide known war expert...as he watched all that himself....

Dawa-i-Dil,

Why dont u confine urself to UP, bhayya??

and dawa-i-dil, your attitude is the result of what you are taught..... it is very sad.

foilio, this is dawa behen, and that too she is tonkee's behen, so I will always be nice to her!

poor muslims... hounded by BJB in India... burnt alive by ISI in Pakistan.... poor poor muslims.... one has to feel sorry for them.

Re: # 11

if you want to give 200 millions muslims land in UP..most welcome...

but tranfer of muslim population from West Bengal...Kerala..Maharashtra..and banglore etc should be peaceful....

Re: # 12

no dear nb....its not attitude..its the reality...

your BJB ..is drowning the india....

by hatred..you will invite motre hatred...

Re: # 14

it was mishandling of situation....

they were given 7 days to surrender...but it was sad incident...

but Nareender ballat kar the poor girls..then burnt them...

whats the comparison...

#15 by dawa-i-dil

if you want to give 200 millions muslims land in UP..most welcome...

I want to give 200 million Muslims (and any Muslim from anywhere in the world) land in Balochistan. As it is, the province is under-populated. What do you say?

Re: # 18

most welcome....

we will welcome indian muslims there....

but still 200 millions muslims ..cannot be adjusted in balochisan ....

so ...in india ..they must have seperate land...

why you not give them thisright of freedom ...???

dawa, that is not the way india works!

Re: # 20

it will not do to the security of india at all..no threat to india at all...

but why 200 millions mulims have to live as 3rd class citizens...

because they are not 3rd class citizens. Most Indians do it hard, and Muslims are no exceptions. But I will not try to convince you, because I cannot win over generations of brainwashing.

Dawa...you are a visionary..you need to show the way to these poor folks..This is where your madrassa education and upbringing could be put to max use...

Send us a detailed proposal of where you want Pakistan version 2.2 to come.Ensure all bugs and flaws of version 1 & 1.1 are removed; if possible...

PS: You may want to release the beta version in sind, Baluchistan & Nwfp as a trial before actual release..

dawa-i-dil: pyari bachi... how about the pakistanis stranded in bangladesh??... why isnt pakistan welcoming them back?

Re: # 22

dear nb ..its not brainwasing..its reality




http://www.thestar.com/News/World/article/246411



Not the best thing to share on Independent day of neighbouring country, but couldn't resist. It might be just staring this way that people are hiding their ID as some poor desis do in west. But by looking at the dire situation of Muslims in general in India, this doesn't come as a shocker. Muslims are equally responsible for their current state. They didn't do enough to vamp up their youths in education, after 5 generations, they are still paying for it.



Fearful Muslims adopt Hindu IDs


In India, many members of religious minority hide the signs of their faith to escape discrimination

August 15, 2007
Shaikh Azizur Rahman
SPECIAL TO THE STAR




CALCUTTA–On a busy street in Calcutta's business district, he runs a food stall called "Rajib's Paratha" and is known as Rajib Mallick.




Using the popular Hindu name, no one suspects he is Rajab Ali Mollah, a Muslim who has adopted a fictitious identity to blend in with the neighbourhood's mostly Hindu office workers.




Sohrab Hossain, a Muslim student who came to the city to complete his Masters degree in English and lives in a Hindu-dominated housing complex, is known as Sourav Das among the students he tutors. To keep up his Hindu appearance he has a small idol of Saraswati, the Hindu goddess of learning, on his desk.




Every morning as she prepares to go to work as a fishmonger, Hasina Khatoon takes off her silver armband embossed with "Allah" in Arabic, puts vermillion powder on her forehead and red-white conch bangles on her wrist – symbols of a married Hindu woman – to maintain a Hindu appearance in a fish market where almost all of her customers are Hindus.




Rajab Mollah, Sohrab Hossain and Hasina Khatoon say they have adopted new identities in a Hindu-majority society where as Muslims they would face discrimination.



Analysts say many Muslims from all socio-economic backgrounds are quietly hiding their religious affiliation.




"Muslims in almost all spheres of life face a communal discrimination by powerful Hindus and they are denied many of their basic rights and freedom in an unjustified way," said Anjan Basu, a social analyst and executive editor of Pratidin, a Bengali daily in Calcutta.



Six decades after Partition, "many (Hindus) believe that Pakistan was created for Muslims and now they do not have right to live in India, which is meant for Hindus."




The Partition of India 60 years ago was a highly controversial arrangement, and remains a cause of much tension on the subcontinent today.




Basu, who is a Hindu, also said discrimination has been "institutionalized," with many Muslims being denied employment in government and private-sector offices where 90 to 95 per cent jobs are held by Hindus.




Gautam Ray, a senior journalist with Calcutta's largest Bengali daily Anandabazar Patrika, said that since the bulk of the dalits (low-caste Hindus or so-called Untouchables) converted to Islam when the religion spread in India, many upper-caste Hindus look down on Muslims as they had for generations looked down on dalits.




"The root of this communal discrimination is deeply entrenched in the society and most of these communal Hindus are not expected to change their feeling for Muslims any time soon," said Ray, who is also an upper-caste Hindu. "Muslims are often denied housing in Hindu-dominated modern residential complexes," he added.




"This communal discrimination against Muslims will not end unless Hindus themselves change their attitude. But we do not see hope of any such positive social change anytime soon."




Muslims who adopted fake Hindu identities believe they did nothing wrong by hiding their original identities.





"Ten years ago, when my house and land in the village was eaten up by a river and I came to Calcutta in search of a job, almost all street shops and restaurants in the city refused to employ me because I was a Muslim," Mollah said.




"Some said their Hindu customers could refuse to eat at their restaurants if a Muslim worked there," he said.




"But I met a Muslim man who worked under a Hindu identity to supply water to restaurants. I followed his advice, picked up a Hindu identity and soon an upper-class Hindu employed me to run a food stall."




Nearly all of Mollah's customers are Hindus and he fears his business would suffer disastrously if his customers found out he is a Muslim.




"I don't think I have done anything wrong because I know how they hate Muslims simply because of their religion," he added.




A federal commission recently found that Muslims "live in socio-economic conditions worse than many so-called backward tribal people," according to commission chief Rajendra Sachar, a former judge.



In the state of West Bengal, where the Muslim community makes up 27 per cent of the population, employment of Muslims in the government sector was below 3 per cent, the Sachar Commission reported.

Some Muslim leaders see education as the key to a better future.





"If the younger generation can educate themselves, it will be difficult for even the most communal Hindus to discriminate against a new Muslim force," said Nazrul Islam, a senior public servant and noted Calcutta writer.



"Maybe discrimination will not be wiped out completely, but an educated and powerful community of Muslims will be able to fight off the injustice, at least to a good extent."



this Article is taken from pakistan greatest forum ...

http://www.paklinks.com/gs/showthread.php?t=261635

Re: # 23 inside india...near UP ..or hyderabad...its the basic right of 200 millions muslims...

Re: # 24 pyarai bhayya...we all want..but our leaders dont do anything constructive..

As i said, it is pointless, dawa!

Dawa behen,

(near UP)

You want all 200 million IMs on the Unplugged section. The chowk server will crash, I'a afraid.

Regards

Re: # 28

dear nb ..why ?

Re: # 29

amma majumdar sahab..its Uttar Pardesh..where muslims are about 20% of whole population...

Re: # 23 inside india:

Sure, lets do it..Hyderabad sounds good..Folio who is a Hyderabadi must be given a high office of honor :)

You must fix yourself a title..Quaid-e-Dawakhana or some jazz like that..

What are you going to call this place..I suggest Pak-e-Delusions..or Dream-on-Pak ver 2.2...

This dishonest write-up is unmitigated trash!

The rise of Hindu militant ideology is a relatively new phenomenon (during the last 20-25 years) although the seeds have been present for a long time. It was the fertilizer of Pakistan-sponsored terrorism in the subcontinent which enabled the seeds to sprout and to take hold - a simple cause-and-effect situation. This foolish "writer" of this stupid crap which would be posted nowhere in the world except at the crummy dung-pile of this website, this writer knows that simple fact but carefully hides it inside the deepest recesses of his rectum.

Did I say that this dishonest write-up is unmitigated trash?! Let me repeat. This dishonest write-up is unmitigated absolute trash!

Not happy? Move to the land of the pure..

http://www.piac.com.pk/

I'm sure if you buy in bulk with Farzana and her ilk, you'll get a good discount.

#2 Posted by dawa-i-dil on August 17, 2007 12:33:34 am


as once russia were broken into 26 pieces by ISI....


That's like Michael Douglas' used condom saying it had sex with Catherine Zeta-Jones.

#35 by arjun2

ROFL!!!

pyari dawi baby.... if you are gutless as a nation... tu phir rona dhona kyoon baby?.... now shabash go get your general undressed phir idhar bhashan daina...

Re: # 35 i dont know these 2 persons...hehehe

Re: # 33 Hussain Abbas has unleashed your whole HINDUTAVA philosophy..now you are angry upon that..pooh

Re: # 32 the same responses when Pakistan Resolution was passed in 1940 at Lahore..but what hapened just after 7 years..you know better...

man whynare you so angry upon giving 200 million muslims thier right of freedom...

Re: # 37

No we are seperate as pakistan...

but we want another seperate muslim country inside india for 200 million smuslims...

plz..give them thier right..otherwise india's integrity may be in danger...

#33 Posted by bjkumar,

Interesting you're now talking about 'simple cause-and-effect situation', after having rejected the idea since a few years now :)

If you were to follow the 'simple cause-and-effect situation' a few yards, you would end up on the White House Lawns with Reagan comparing the Mujahideen with the 'Founding Fathers of America' ... !

However you are at full liberty to call whatever you don't like as 'unmitigated trash!'

thanks zeemax..

i have pated your whole 3 thread of unplugged ..there..of mumbai..calcutta..and bashing thread..and amusement thread...

LOL....

#42 Kambakhat Zee (KZ)

KZ, for every effect, if one keeps looking, some cause can be found (or at least imagined). Don't try to dump it into the lap of the Amrikkans - if they took advantage of the Pakistanis - heck, the Pakistanis were far more willing than the worst harlots of the worst red-light areas of Sona Gaachhee and Chaturbhuj sthaan! (My apologies to any ladies from those places.)

The point is and has always been - what is the objective of Pakistan?

From all indications - ever since 1947, it has been to damage India over any kind of pretext one could imagine. Even if such acts cause you grievous damage and only limited damage to your adversary.

You all still keep harping on the same old harp - the bygone days of Islamic glory - which (in reality) were never golden - y'all keep imagining those days returning to the present - with Pakistan proudly leading the procession...

Looking forward to showing the golden green path of salvation to the vast body of mankind....

Pakistan - in its rightful role as the leader of the Ummaah...

You must be KZ!

#39 Dabba

Beta, meri baat suno!

I understand that chowk staff produced you out of its own virtual loins.

But like your country - you still are trivially small - please limit yourself to interactors of your own size - just like Pakistan should limit itself to interacting with small countries - like Mauritus (no disrespect to Mauritus)!

Samjhey, Pakistan ki harrami aulad?!

This article is quite informative and no doubt it is based on objective assessment of the ground realities of India. There is no doubt in my mind that in the coming wars of civilizations, hindu religious nuts will prove to be frontline soldiers of the neo-Imperial west.

#46 Urstruly

Mian, where HAVE you been?!

The war of civilizations already started - it is no more coming! Looks like they decided not to wait for you.

You are sitting it all out - and missing out on all your "fun"!

I understand it may be rather difficult for you to conduct it from that commode seat, of course!

I guess some people have to fight the "war" from a position of disadvantage! :(

#44 Posted by bjkumar is 'unmitigated trash!' :)

And I'm sure if one keeps looking, 'some' cause can be found in the vicinity of the vacuum between the two ears of the poster!

#46 Posted by Urstruly on August 17, 2007 7:00:40 am



There is no doubt in my mind that in the coming wars of civilizations


And you'll be paying for Israel's purchase of 30billion $ worth of weapons...

so, on behalf of the israelis, thanks for that...

Perhaps it would have been reasonable to mention that clearly not all indians are hindu supremists.
But the rise of the religious right is not a myth as i guess we all agree.
Its worth exploring the roots and funding and misery created by this phenomena. I'd reccommend the following:

"In Bad Faith? British Charity and Hindu Extremism" is a meticulously documented record divided into five sections and nine informative appendices. The Report clearly establishes that the UK Charity Sewa International, to which donations of over £4 million pounds were made by the British public in the aftermath of the devastating Gujarat earthquake in 2001, were used to fund the activities of the Hindu extremist group - Rashtriya Swayamsevak Sangh (RSS). This funding was used to promote Hindutva ideology, fomenting sectarian and communal violence throughout India. In 2002, Gujarat became the flashpoint.

We think of him as Saint Alan now, but in a few years he will be known as the reckless Fed chairman who encouraged the creation and use of exotic mortgages that required you to put down very little money, odd creations like the “2 and 28,” an adjustable mortgage with low interest payments the first two years that explode into gargantuan fees for the next 28. Don’t have the money to pay for the 2 before the 28? Go “piggybacking”: Take out a home-equity loan against your new house to meet those minimal payments.

Where did the money come from? Banks lent it, mortgage brokers lent it, and even home builders themselves got into the act. The housing markets were so hot the lenders barely had time to check if their buyers were deadbeats, cheats, speculators, or actual honest-to-Betsy hardworking people who wanted nothing more than what Tom Joad wanted 70 years ago. Oh, and the buyers didn’t have time to check out the terms, either; the value of the houses was going up too fast. Gotta close now! Nor did the regulators tap the brakes—whoops, there were no regulators. If something went wrong, who cares? The buyers could always sell their ever-appreciating home to the next guy on the reservation list or the ten after him. The builders, brokers, and bankers then shipped these mortgages east to the big Wall Street firms, which bundled them together and merchandised them as high-yielding bonds often backed up by nothing more than the full faith and credit of, well, no one.

Sorry folks... # 51 was mistakenly posted here... It was to go to iLogs... editors... if you read this kindly delete these two posts

#50 Posted by cliftonbridge,

This is nothing. Don't you know the story of how they stole money from even their war dead by over-invoicing the import cost of the coffins?

www.google.com (Kargil Coffins Controversy)

#53 Posted by zeemax on August 17, 2007 8:09:13 am

india overpaid for coffins and you saved money by abandoning the bodies of your soldiers on the mountains of kargil...when kashmir becomes pakiland in 2010 like you predicted, their bodie will go from rotting in India to rotting in the land of the pure..

I heard that. But my link is worse because the financial heri pheri led to people being mauled and raped and dismembered.

Re: # 45 post by bj kumar
Dabba

Beta, meri baat suno!

I understand that chowk staff produced you out of its own virtual loins.

But like your country - you still are trivially small - please limit yourself to interactors of your own size - just like Pakistan should limit itself to interacting with small countries - like Mauritus (no disrespect to Mauritus)!

Samjhey, Pakistan ki harrami aulad?!

***************************************

hehehe..thanks for the compliments...

but tell me..when and how will be the transfer of muslim population to UP will take place..i want just peaceful migration...
and more...all muslism should allow to have this share inside india land...as its thier basic right...

how can you negate the rights of 200 millions muslims...

Re: # 23
Chennai before you comment look at your own back yard first, An RSS "Shakha" is not any better or worse then a madrassa teaching the distored version of religion and history.

In the words of an Indian legal scholar Girish Patel:

"I still remember going to a local shakha(branch, a youth group of the Hindu right.....formed on Indian version of fasisct Hitler's Youth Wing). When I was eight or nine Ahmeddabad. They drew young people in through innocuous exercise programs, so called non-political stunts; culturally, everyday there is a shakha meeting, excercises, morning prayers, anti-Muslim indoctrination, and their version of history (showing Hindus to be victims of Muslims and their pure culture from Vedic times destroyed therefore, its time for revenge and wash away the pysche of hindu inferiority complex thus empowering them with hate).

Re: # 57 true..with sticks in thier hands and wearing khakhi neekars...

Excellent article Hussain sb. You've lit quite the fire in the lalas' dhotis.

aww..manto is here, trying to prove his anti-indian credentials to the pakis in the hopes that they'll treat his ahmedi rear as muslim..

Re: # 33

BjKumar: It seems to me that I have hit a raw nerve in you. Are you a closet hate monger yourself and are reluctant to come forward for the sake of civility?

When I wrote this article I knew the response will same as yours simply because truth hurts. If chowk is such a miss-guided forum what are you doing here? Don't you have a RSS "Shakha" to run or better yet have tea with Praveen Togadia and discuss the good old days of Vedic civilization.

The phenomena of hate was around in the 1920's in the form of RSS and Hindu Mahasabha followers they shed enough blood in 1947 riots and like a virus it went dormant to rise again under the virulent guidance of BJB's fascist agenda of eliminating whatever is left of Muslim economic and power structure and drive them to a point where they become docile enough to accept any historical untruth as the ultimate truth as is accepted by not only the illiterate Hindus of India but also the hater mongering pusedo-intellecual Hindus also.

ISI and RAW cannot be blamed for every ill of each other’s country. Intelligence agencies cannot formant hate unless there is injustice committed by the local government in this case BJP and its Saffron brigade has done enough to choose its own poison.

awww..arjun is trying to be more hinduvta than the hinduvtas ...arjun churches are burned when good men say yes master to a bad master.

Re: # 3

Harish,

The head of East German intelligence agency, "STACI did say that the first brick was taken out of the Berlin wall when Pakistan with American aid started the Afghan-Soviet war.

It’s on public record and since you claim to be an educated man look it up or do I have to help you their too. Since inventing false Hindu histories is easier then exploring the factual truth.

#61 Poonchh-kata-Wolf (PkWolf)

Abey chowk-tawaif ki nazaiz aulad! Tu ssaala chowk ka paida kiya hua harrami hai! Like most chowk “writers” you have no clue about writing. You could not write sense if your saala jihadi-ass-kissing mouth depended on it!

That is why, ssaalaa, in seven whole years you can only excrete TWO write ups – including the present – your current pathetic specimen!

I am sorry you had to exert so much that all your crap came out in form of those lousy two pages! You must have worked REALLY hard! Hey, it is hard work for Pakistanis – ANY work is hard work for that country – they are so much better at running that mouth!

Keep trying betta – someday you may be able to put two meaningful words together!

And some day you may even develop a bit of courage to tell the real truth about all the nefarious acts of inciting and promoting terrorism that the crappy land of the Pure (sshiitt) has been dishing out to the whole world.

Hey, even dumb, dumb dogs can occasionally develop courage – at least for a minute or two! :)

So there is always hope for you.

EVEN you!

#61 Poonchh-kata-Wolf (PkWolf)

(add-on)

Try not to look for RSS, etc. under every bed! You might find a bunch of those people under the sheets with your significant other! :)

Re: # 61

Pakwolf:

The RSS and Mahasabha were present in 1920s, no doubt, but the ideological fermentation of Hindu fascist ideology took its root way earlier i.e. during and after the war of Independence of 1857. The Muslim defeat, as a matter of fact near decimation, at the hands of colonial aggression provided the necassary impetus to the Arya Samaaj movement which saw an opprotunity to forcefully convert the defeated Muslims into Hindusim. They are the one who started the Shudhi and Sanghtan movements which sought eithr to expel Muslims from Hindustan or to convert them by force. Luckily, the first world war started and british needed peace in their occupied colonies. I think RSS, Hindu mahasaba, and Jan sangh are all spin offs of the Arya smajh.

#66 Urstruly

Sir, while you are here, could you please enlighten the vast masses of innocent chowkies if Manto can be considered truly a Mussalman and therefore qualified to be called an equal citizen in the land of the SOUPER equals?!! Thank you.

Pak Wolf, are you a nitwit? STASI is the east german secret police. Staci is the waitress at Spearmint Rhino in Vegas.

#68 Posted by chaltahai on August 17, 2007 10:38:39 am

[Pak Wolf, are you a nitwit?]

Kambakhat Chaltahai, do not hurt his feelings! What are you trying to do - getting rounded up by the PETA?

BJ i am a little tired of the same stupid question being asked by hateful pakistani's and indians alike (you may not be hateful but the question is hateful)

Manto is shia just like the future PM of pakistan. Now please get off his ass.

#70 Bridge

[Now please get off his ass.]

Bridge, don't get too protective of HIS ass - Miss Ayesha may get upset! Pakistanis do not tolerate competition too well. :)

Besides, I was not REALLY expecting an answer from the maulana - he has made himself amply clear on that issue only about a thousand times.

I was only intrigued by this meeting of minds between the maulana and the Manto on this write-up!

Sometimes, I feel that the "great" Hindu Right is the ultimate uniter of the baagh and the bakree - especially in the land of Pakistan! :)

Abbas Sahib:

Hindu right was recently thrashed in U.P. when Mayawati came to power. Electoral math of India is such that leaders of this group cannot assert too much power outside few homes and families in their neighborhoods.
Maulana Abdul Kalam Azad laid foundations of India’s modern education system. Yasser has pointed at numerous times that this Maulana was a right wing religious person.

Yes, Murli Manohar Joshi tried to change textbooks, and introduce Astrology as a subject for IITs. He did not last one full-term.

Most middle class Indians have seen the benefits of meritocracy in education. They watch. A watchdog group recently analyzed IIT entrance examination results to see if there was any bias. A population mass equal to the U.S. today aspires to send their students to study at the university level. The force of this change is building a tsunami. Right wing nuts have no chance against these forces which are creating middle class. Middle class is no longer limited to cities, but is present in small towns and villages also.

Muslim Indians, when identified as a group, are not a par with others. This group has been deprived of leadership for two previous generations, my parents generation - who actively participated in the independence movement, and my generation - I would call them as shell-shocked muslim Indians. Enough of living this in past and take the present is my advice. Community based, and faith based initiatives to start education should be seized now. Muslim Indians are capable of leading the rest of muslims elsewhere what should be the modern education for faith based initiatives.

Middle class India did that through private enterprise in education when it discovered government schools were not providing right education. There are mosques in the community with all the amenities. These are not used for most of the time during the day.

You would serve a better cause when you start an initiative and provide modern basic education to kids from the community. Raising red-herring no doubt serves a purpose, which is far miniscule compared to preparing tomorrow’s India for tomorrow’s challenges and opportunities. No one else will prepare but the community itself.

Heh, heh, good article Abbas sahib !

It is a shame that indian muslims have to live amongst the infidel. And on top of it they have to suffer from discrimination and abuse. Its intolerable !!

You are so correct that the only way to go forward is for them to have a civil war with their hindu neighbors (disgusting idol worshippers!) and form their own country. This will make them educated, good citizens, prosperous and advanced. The whole region will prosper.

BTW, what is the best way of killing an infidel? Should their throats be cut while they are alive - like Daniel Pearl? Or should they be offered a chance to convert in front of witnesses and then, should they refuse, be stabbed to death. Please give this miserable polytheist some guidance about his future.

lol...beej once again may i remind all that manto is shia. Thank you lets move on.
Beej in general re goat and garden , i think you may be onto something.

Bridge, you misunderstood me again. (At your age, it is probably understandable! In fact, it is quite understandable for anyone over ninety five.)

I meant Baagh as in tiger! :)

interesting article Hussain Abbas.

What is the value of Muslims in BJP? consider the 200 million population sems to me that there is only Mukhtar Abbas Naqvi representing all in this party?? I always wonder who are the leaders represents this Muslims of India in various parties.

i dont think extreme hinduvawadis are on the rise..prolly the other way, but more general hindus are definately not as tolerant as before. i recall chatting with an elderly muslim gentleman in 1988 who used to work with Cipla (drug giant) and he was very comfortable in rooting for pakistani cricket team openly in the midst of his mostly hindu collegues and also say while he enjoys living in mumbai, pakistan concept somehow plays with his heart-strings. i dont think he would be able to say such things anymore..hindus are not as tolerant as they used to be.

bj "baagh" is just not fitting for a sher :) why not just call it pumpkin?

The growth of Hindu fundamentalism was inevitable given the patriarchal (mai-baap) nature of the Indian state. Muslim and Christian fundamentalism is also (and has been) on the rise in India. As of now, most of this fundamentalism is confined to the middle class (with foot soldiers being drawn from the lower class). It will soon spread to the lower classes also given that the powers that be are only interested in glittering buildings, gdp growth rates and constitutions. I wish two things happen:

1. The fundamentalism spreads to more and more identities - dalit, brahmin, oriya, malayalee, shia, sunni, whatever you have.

2. Each of these fundamentalist indentities get very powerful - politically, economically and socially.

#58 Posted by dawa-i-dil

Re: # 57 true..with sticks in thier hands and wearing khakhi neekars...

Dawa-i-Dil ... just for you. A gift for www.alldost.com. Check UP!

#74,

Cut them with sworda then take their wives as concubines or sale them as slaves along with their children.

GT, what a comical scenario. Nothing of that sort will happen. You remind of the Keisghur kid..and the band of anarchists trolling the US at the turn of the century. Awaiting the impending implosion..they ended up blowing themselves up with faulty ideas. Some of them even slept with communists..but that is a different disease all together

#83 Posted by chaltahai

Except note that identities in the US are more powerful in the US than in India. Heck gays have more say in the Us than dalits in Rajasthan.

#84 Posted by GT on August

[Except note that identities in the US are more powerful in the US than in India. Heck gays have more say in the Us than dalits in Rajasthan. ]

That's because Gays have organized themselves at the grassroots level and have tried to influence policy, idiot, not because of "rights" handed to them by the government.

Let me tell you this once and for all. Do not have any doubt about this. You are NOT an intellectual. You will never be. This thing doesn't happen by trying. It's not your fault. Either you are or you are not. Stop your pretentious pseudo-intellectual garbage.

Re: # 64

BjKumar:

You represent the current intellectual dwarfinism and rigid dogmatic attitude prevalent in Indian Hindus today. Rather than having a scholarly discourse which you seem utterly incapable off, you come down to the level of a gutter mouth ranting about things which have no bearing at the issue on hand.

I feel no compulsion to come down to your level of ineptitude, you are blinded by right wing ideology and therefore, behaving like a thug who has nothing to offer except obscenities which you are quite unimagintive at.

Welcome to the world of a modern day Hindu fascist wanna be intellectual who believes personal insults will take away attention from the discussed subject need I say more your verbosity speaks volume about your state of mind.

Re: # 73

Re: # 73

Mr. Anil I agree that Muslims in India need to get their literacy rate up to compete with the general population. The question is how much of historical inaccuracies still exist in text books that being fed on to the younger generation preaching hate towards minorities.

Mr. Girish Patel says that the powerful Hindu right has inserted its own view of the nation and of religious issues, Admiring references to fascist leader Hitler and "achievements in the social science text books.
Surely that should be a matter of grave concern for Indian intellectual community.

Take example for Pakistan we are labeled as a country run by fundamentalist but not once in it's 60 years of existence has the country ever had a religious party win an election to elect a prime minister Indian BJP has been able to do that on Hindu propaganda machinery.

N.W.F.P and Baluchistan got a religious party leaders elected as an aftermath of 9/11 and American war in Afghanistan otherwise they didn't have a prayer. Pakistanis are more liberal than Indian Muslims and you ever doubt that claim. You can visit Pakistan and see for yourself.
Having brought up in Lahore capital of Punjab province.

We are one of the most laid people. Simply because of our history which has great influence of Sufism and that thought process has deep roots in our society and this keeps the fringe elements of fundamentalists at bay.

Re: # 74

Mr. Mishra:

Sarcasm seems to be your weapon of choice but sadly the only chink in the armor it has managed to create is in your mental capacity.

You clearly represent the mindset of a fanatical Hindu who believes that their safety will come once the Muslims of India are in complete control mind and body. With 120 million problems at hand you have your work cut out for you.

Never once did I proclaim any religious bigotry towards you on the basis of Islam. It’s you own mind set which is obsessed with the pre-conceived notions of a false sense of history that has been fed to you and that leads you think that every one across the border has nothing better to do but attack India taking the occasional general out of the picture who does not represent the will of the masses. You cannot say the same for BJP's violent agenda which has full support of people like you.

Now why would we want to be any part of a country which has millions of impoverished and illiterate people.

Hindus among themselves commit enough violence to judge any other religion. Brahmans raping untouchables, North Indians think their Gods and temples are better than the Dravidians in the south and vica-versa. Shiva temple worshippers attacking jain temple worshippers because their God is better.

At least reach a national religious consensus, who is holier than the other and then point fingers across the border. Violence in the name of religion can never be justified and Hindus do not have a clean slate either just because an average BJB thug holds a primitive weapon such as a trident or a sword its effects on an unarmed Indian muslim can be devastating.

Re: # 82

Cobra:

And the pearls of wisdom full endlessly out of your mouth....just when I though an Indian cannot full deeper in the hole of ignorance you just manage to go down even deeper may be this way you might end up in Rishikash.....I guess there is light at the end of your tunnel of ignorance.

Pakwolf, don't get angry yaar. This was a stupid article so it was a fitting response IMO.

IB, (to continue from another discussion) hope you visit this board. After a couple of days, you might, possibly, come around to the view: Indo-Pak relations are not normal. Hindu-Muslim relations are not normal. (No, to blame everything on kargil, or any one thing, is too naive.)

Leaving aside a couple of real elites (who live safely inside their big houses) here and there, our mututal expecations have to be very very very low (if progress is any objective). Let's check back here in a few days. Best regards.

Anyway, Mr Abbas,ideally I would not like Hindus or Muslims to yell obscenities at Pakistan because while I agree it may make them feel better in the short term, it does not solve anything.

Hussain Abbas,

Yaar, I am sorry I twisted your tail so much! At least I thought it was your tail – without the realization that I was simultaneously twisting the vital appendage next to it. :(

Seriously, you will become a better writer if you learn to obtain some balance in your stuff.

You know what I mean – try to keep your prejudices out of your writing! Try to search and put in some facts, too – not just the crumbs that the media hand-feeders offer you in return for your everlasting gratitude!

Then your NEXT article may be worth reading – which, at your current rate of production, should be here any time now by 2014.

PS: the "wolf" is canine breed so take no offense at being called the same!

The author should have examined at least some of the vast amount of the vigorous debate on the subject of bias in Indian textbooks (from both sides) before writing this article.

pakiwolf

dude - you are 5 years late about the rise hinud right wing... their peak has come and gone...

But I am not sure why you are so upset about this... even at their peak - RSS managed to kill couple thounsand muslims.... but you pakis have killed a million bongs, thousans balochis... you continue to kill hundreds of muslims even today....

Compared to you guys, RSS is chump change... so why so much whining, chest beating... :)

...the situation of indian muslims is, in opinion, the achilles heal of india......indian muslims are, on the whole, out of th loop, in the current economic development taking place in india.....

i am not sure what the reason behind this is...perhpas it is the social setup of any third world country, which has minority religious communities......perhpas it is the fault of the muslims, themselves....

......however, when one group becomes richer, and another remains where it was, it creates huge gaps of discontentment......this is exactly what happened to pakistan, in the decade of 60s, when pakistan was booming economically, yet bengalis felt they were being left behind....

.....this is definitely true in IT......indian muslims in the IT boom of india, are almost non-existent......specially in the very senior ranks......i have looked at the top twenty leaders of quite a few indian companies and companies founded by indian in usa, and have seen literally no indian muslims......in many cases, i am the seniormost muslim, in meetings with them.....

the only exception are the odd azim premjis......however, even they are, themselves, entrepreneurs.......

this problem is further amplified by the india-pakistan problems........in fact, the biggest beneficieries, in my opinion, of the solution of indo-pak problems, like kashmir etc., will be indian muslims.....and in the long run india......

BAN RELIGION!
CELEBRATE LIFE!

romair

this has been explained so many times... to understand the situation - look at other minorities like sikhs, christians - their economic success surpasses the majority hinuds...

Also - indian muslim as a group is not homogenous - the south indian, gujrati muslims are much more successful... northy muslims are not - but then so are northy hindus... north is pulling down india in every possible way - so too muslims when looked as a whole group...

Muslims in general have not put too much emphasis on education - that's an age-old cultural problem across the board... hence low representation in IT... you won't find that many muslim engineering students in colleges either...

The fault in most part is with the community... sure, systemic flaws are there, discrimination exists in various forms, but that's not the reason for this level of sorry state of affairs in muslims...

The reason why pakis do not have an IT industry also explains why you don't see too many muslims in IT in india, or anywhere else for that matter... lack of interest in secular education...

that's a problem in almost all muslim communities across the world... you don't see too many centers of excellence in learning in arab world either - despite the boatloads of money they have... brit-pakis have the same problem, they live in filth and ignorance in the middle of one of the best cities of the world...

mohar11
While percentage-wise Indian Muslims don't do as well as the other Indian religious communities in higher education, they do as well or better than Pakistanis.

Pak college grads = 2.33 million out of 132 million pop.(1998 census)
Indian Muslim college grads = 2.38 million out of 138 million pop.(2001 census).

Re: # 98
mohar
how is that possible that gujrati muslims are doing well, all the reports are that they are victims of modi's discrimanatory policies.

There goes Sadna with her age old propaganda that has been refuted several times.

Forget that you are comparing 2001 and 1998 or 138 million Indian Muslims to 132 million Pakistanis (inclusive of all religious communities)... forget that the college graduates amongst Indian Muslims were manifold in 1947 ... whereas Muslims in Pakistan region were still stuck in agriculture and soldiery... these are all inconvenient facts that blow a million holes in Sadna's ignorant arguments.

Lets just consider for a second that yes Indian Muslims are producing just as many graduates as Pakistanis (inclusive of all communities).... one wonders what then is the percentage of Indian Muslims employed in commerce, medicine, law, IT, the armed forces etc? We have a conclusive figure vis a vis the Indian Army ... 14% Muslims (that too according to the government census) with less than 2% representation. This trend follows in more or less all fields.

Masadi you creep !!!! (Utterly & Completely Respected)

So you are still trying to spread your bullshyte notions that have been rejected by the rest of the civilized world!!!!

Will you never learn ???

Don't you remember the hiding you got on faithfreedom.org( at the hands of Ali) ???

Don't you remember the disciplinary meetings in the US University just before they deported you in spite of your pleadings???

Don't you remember your abject surrender and begging/whining tone in which you implored for a second chance to be allowed to stay in the US????

Don't you remember the unceremonious manner in which you were comprehensively rejected and kicked out of the US??

Don't you remember the impish grin on the face of the US immigration (INS) official as you were dragged kicking and screaming to the airplane????

Don't you remember the "evil" students in your Pakistani college who made open mockery of the ideas you tried to teach them???

Don't you remember the management committee meeting which unanimously declared you "unfit" to train young Pakistani students???

Don't you remember how you were thrown out of that college and the security staff alerted to never let you enter again ???

Don't you remember how all your pleadings for "outstanding claims" were met with derisive laughter???

Don't you remember how the Chowk staff has consistently refused to publish your bullshyte articles???

Don't you remember how even lulu.com would not accept your "works" any more???

And now, you have found a one-man audience in the intelligent MADani.

Perhaps now you have reached the peak of your career.

Rejoice in your success.....

The raving lunatic Okhla is lying about everything (except chowk censoring my articles) in the below reproduced BS diatribe, in fact it is quite pathetic that idiots like him have to invent bs to discredit my quite well established, well argued posts....like Madani sahib said these bastar** are just jealous because they cannot approach my posts except by inventing lies. Btw nobody deported me from the US or fired me from any US university, I came back to Pakistan of my own volition, away from the land of cheerful morons like okhla, slaves yet happy in their enslavement....Now go eff off okhla....

Re: # 102

PS: They don't do as well or better as per Sadna's claim.

Pakistani 1.76% in 1998 is number greater than Indian Muslim 1.72% in 2001.

And given that Indian Muslims had a much larger number of graduates than Pakistanis had in 1947... the trend shows a remarkable improvement in Pakistani number and a remarkable stagnation in the Indian Muslim number. We shall see the 0.04% gap growing much higher now.

#105 Posted by MantoLives on August 18, 2007 2:08:07 pm

Two words: Azim Premji....

Horror of Horrors !!!
Masadi is being taken seriously by the Minister for education !!!!
Masadi is submitting reports to the government!!!
Higher education in Pakistan shall henceforth be on lines suggested by Masadi!!!


Pinch !!! Wake up !!!! Pinch !!!

We have only Masadi's word for it.

It must be as true as the remainder of his bullshyte , viz his 'students" conducting "research" and publishing "papers" in his "institute". Masadi working towards the "Nobel Prize". Lulu.com being a better publisher than Springer Verlag, McGraw Hill, Prentice Hall etc.

Some prople will believe anything.....

Let us hope that as and when the tottering government falls and the Ministers and their lackeys are executed (nay, shot on the streets like rabid dogs)-- a few particularly sidey llackeys are not allowed to escape.

One thing that really boggles my mind is the question why Hindu religious nuts have beef with Muslims residing in India. How could Muslims as a decrepit minority group whose destitution is far worst than that of Dalits be such a threat to Hindu nuts that they would not have mercy on 10 year old girls and burn them alive in front of their families. Such hatered and such insecurity has some deeper foundation and I cannot put my finger on it.

If Pakistanis want to take comfort in a 0.03% difference between college gradudates produced by a 97% majority versus those produced by a 14% minority, let them be my guest.

Sadna..

If that were true, why would you try and switch numbers cleverly in your ilog?

And what is this emphasis on 97% majority when you are comparing all Pakistanis to Indian Muslims?

For one thing Pakistanis (and that 100% population since the number is inclusive of Non-muslims) who started from scratch and had a much lower literacy rate than Indian Muslims in 1947 have done well to CROSS the number of Indian Muslim graduates... or maybe Indian Muslims have done really badly.

Secondly why don't you produce some job placement numbers as well?

So in other words not only is the Pakistani number of graduates(inclusive of all communities) absolutely higher than the Indian Muslim number... but when it comes to job placement, per capital income etc there is