The 'poor' Neighbour

anil #97:....your idea about outsourcing the military is interesting......it is incorrect in the way you have presented it, however, it is accurate, and has been, in another manner.......

pakistan has been sending out thousands of soldiers to the middle east and has built their militaries....this, and not land, is how pakistani military officers used to make their money......land only goes to the very senior officers....

following are some steps that i would take, at a strategic level, if someone was to ask me:

1. build gwadar to its fullest capability, connect it to china, make it a totally free port, and build it out like dubai.....and take control of the strait of hormuz and all the oil flowing through it.....it will pay pakistan government's bills, jsut by itself......just like rumor has it that the dubai airport pays dubai's govt's bill just on its own......

2. open the punjab borders with india, for trade and tourism, and allow indiain punjabis free access to pakistan's punjab, and then extend it out to the rest of india, slowly......

3. build a city called, "new lahore" on the border of india and pakistan, next to lahore......make it the trade center of india and pakistan......allow indian companies to own land and build offices there......it will quickly become the biggest city west of delhi and will dwarf gurgaon and chandigarh etc......connect this to gwadar, as well, and make it a centerpoint of indian trade to the gulf.....

4. give india access to the pipeline network through pakistan to iran and central asia.....indian economy will hit a plateau if it cannot get access to gas from qatar and central asia and iran......at the moment, india uses 1/6th of the gas, from per person, in comparison to pakistan, at the moment......

5. privatize the pakistan defence manufacturing industry and make it the primary source of defence equipment for the middle eastern muslim countries.....

6. make pakistan the banking center for the middle east market - specifically for islamic banking, which is ready to boom......pakistan is the going to be the biggest retail market for islamic banking and for human resources in this area...pakistani banks have been totally restructured in the last ten years......

7. pakistan is one of the fastest booming telecom markets in the world, from the retail side.....it needs to starts building on this and starts to initiate knowledge transfer from the companies selling to pakistan......

8. use the recent boom in the pakistani media to make it the central media platform for the muslim countries and market.....al-jazeera started with an investment of 30 million and now relies on foreigners to run it.....it is the main news source in the muslim world.....i think pakistani media and quickly take that spot and become a the voice of the islamic world, in the international arena, without needeing foreign assistance.......

these are some the things pakistan can do....out of these, pakistan is doing 1 and 6 (to some extent).....pakistan can go head to head with the world, now, in banking, telecom (retail), small arms defence manufacturing and large arms overhauling......if all this can be added to pakistan geographical location of being a center point for logistics and transportation for china and india, it should be set economically for the coming decades.......as india and china grows, pakistan will grow automatically; perhaps faster as it sits at the mouth of the strait of hormuz, and can access the middle east muslim markets also.......

pardesi, have you heard of this? its a small effort..

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Rural_Employment_Guarantee_Act _(NREGA)

ajeya#109:

I agree with quite a bit of what you said.

Pakistan does appear more prosperous, but this prosperity, in my opinion, is somewhat hollow. I think (don't know for sure) that there may be a significant difference between income and production in Pakistan, with inward flows making up for the difference. On a per capita basis, Pakistan gets a lot more from its expats than do Indians. One of the reasons is that a higher proportion of them work outside, almost every family in Punjabi villages has one son in the army and/or another in the Gulf (who are temporary migrants unless those to the Western countries and therefore send most of their earnings back home). In addition, there is what a Pakistani commentator has called the 'manna from heaven'. Pakistan's geopolitical situation has made it a recipient of substantial aid from the US (and from Saudis). But its soft infrastructure is very weak and it generates very low internal savings. In the long run, they need to do something about this.

#106 Cobra

I had food stamps like program in mind for very poor. I think it will not be unfair that these poor souls get some benefit from Indian prosperity. By the way I am no bleeding heart Democrat but a conservative Republican :)

Ranjit:

"The new areas like Gurgaon and Noida are doing really well"

I visited Noida last year in July. It had rained in the morning for a couple of hours. I had to visit the NOIDA authority's head office. The building was like an island. All access to the building was closed. The car had to stop 500 metres from the building. Therefrom, I took the only transportation that could traverse in those conditions, a cycle riksha. When I got off the riksha, I had to fold my trousers above the knees, take my shoes in hand and show myself at the reception in that state. Had to repeat the same process walking from one wing of the building to another.

The shining India didn't appear too shining that day.

"The reason this is so easy to do in countries like Pakistan and China is that they are ruled by dictators, and they can do what they wish. In India, there are many internal political forces to contend with. Many successive governments have tried to remove the Dharavi slums, but the opposition and entrenched political interests would not let this happen. The commie party of India vetoes every legislation that aims and eradicating visible signs of poverty. Their constant refrain - spend that money on poverty-reduction programmes instead."

Add Sonia's Congress to that.
Calcutta - has improvement programs,
Delhi has improvement programs
Bombay - zilch.

DM, in addition to what others have written..India has one of highest savings rate in the world, the lowest debt/equity ratio at the corporate level and cash rich balance sheets. India is a victim of building consensus..and consensus takes time.

#102 Posted by dost_mittar

["There is far less poverty on show in Pakistan than in India, fewer beggars, and much less desperation. In many ways the infrastructure of Pakistan is much more advanced: there are better roads and airports, and more reliable electricity. Middle-class Pakistani houses are often bigger and better appointed than their equivalents in India."

This is what I have been telling arjuns of chowk for a long time. ]


The outward show of poverty that India has can be obliterated in 6 months to a year. India has the money and the resources to build new airports, get rid of slums like Dharavi, and improve visible signs of prosperity.

The reason this is so easy to do in countries like Pakistan and China is that they are ruled by dictators, and they can do what they wish. In India, there are many internal political forces to contend with. Many successive governments have tried to remove the Dharavi slums, but the opposition and entrenched political interests would not let this happen. The commie party of India vetoes every legislation that aims and eradicating visible signs of poverty. Their constant refrain - spend that money on poverty-reduction programmes instead.

But otherwise, India is getting mush more prosperous than the outer appearance suggests. The good thing is that the infrastructure changes will happen, albeit slowly.

And coming to the comparison with Pakistan, while I am glad that their infrastructure is good (as it should be in any country), the comparison with India based on outward appearances is not an accurate one. As I said, with political will, India can change her outward appearance almost overnight, but for Pakistan to achieve the same level of technological prowess, democratic institutions, and educational institutions will take much longer. There is really no comparison between the two when it comes to these indicators of progress. And achieving what India has achieved in this regard will be much harder work than getting foreign/domestic contractors to build highways and public facilities, and to sell cellphones.

Well,Mr.Dalrymple has rightly pointed out the flaws that Paki govt. has today.....unfortunately Pakistan has had many rulers but no leader in these sixty years.Its the lack of ownership which is responsible for the retarded development of Pakistan as a nation....but having said tht i wud say tht not a single country on this earth is perfect.First of all,a country is known by its people...Pakistan is a beautiful country;with resilient and talented people.I dont know abt others but for me it really doesnt matter if the govt is military or civil as long as its taking my country forward.

An Optimistic Pakistani

Zeemax, what does DIA investing into India has your panties in a bunch?

Pardesi, I hate to break it to you but there's no such thing as free lunch.

#103 Posted by chaltahai,

Ok. So you're a ch'tya just as I had always thought.

End of discussion.

Education vs. Infrastructure

If there are two neighbors and one is spending his money on educating children and investing in business while the other is spending on home furniture and fancy clothing, the second one will look more prosperous. First one has brighter future though.

Having said that, India must provide reasonable healthy meals for the poorest of the poor, specially now since it can afford it. That will be a good investment.

Zeemax, are you on crack? there are PE and family offices in mooslim lands in the gulf all jerking off to put money into the INdia infra opp. Abraaj, Invesco, Prince Waleed trust, DIA and even mohammed's dead ghost is chomping at the bit.

"There is far less poverty on show in Pakistan than in India, fewer beggars, and much less desperation. In many ways the infrastructure of Pakistan is much more advanced: there are better roads and airports, and more reliable electricity. Middle-class Pakistani houses are often bigger and better appointed than their equivalents in India."

This is what I have been telling arjuns of chowk for a long time.

... #100...

But don't expect too much from private equity. It doesn't invest in infrastructure. I doubt any foreigner will in today's conditions. The Sharifs could do it when they recognised the global recession of the time and how to use it.

But we can discuss it.