The 'poor' Neighbour

#106 Cobra

I had food stamps like program in mind for very poor. I think it will not be unfair that these poor souls get some benefit from Indian prosperity. By the way I am no bleeding heart Democrat but a conservative Republican :)

ajeya#109:

I agree with quite a bit of what you said.

Pakistan does appear more prosperous, but this prosperity, in my opinion, is somewhat hollow. I think (don't know for sure) that there may be a significant difference between income and production in Pakistan, with inward flows making up for the difference. On a per capita basis, Pakistan gets a lot more from its expats than do Indians. One of the reasons is that a higher proportion of them work outside, almost every family in Punjabi villages has one son in the army and/or another in the Gulf (who are temporary migrants unless those to the Western countries and therefore send most of their earnings back home). In addition, there is what a Pakistani commentator has called the 'manna from heaven'. Pakistan's geopolitical situation has made it a recipient of substantial aid from the US (and from Saudis). But its soft infrastructure is very weak and it generates very low internal savings. In the long run, they need to do something about this.

pardesi, have you heard of this? its a small effort..

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Rural_Employment_Guarantee_Act _(NREGA)

anil #97:....your idea about outsourcing the military is interesting......it is incorrect in the way you have presented it, however, it is accurate, and has been, in another manner.......

pakistan has been sending out thousands of soldiers to the middle east and has built their militaries....this, and not land, is how pakistani military officers used to make their money......land only goes to the very senior officers....

following are some steps that i would take, at a strategic level, if someone was to ask me:

1. build gwadar to its fullest capability, connect it to china, make it a totally free port, and build it out like dubai.....and take control of the strait of hormuz and all the oil flowing through it.....it will pay pakistan government's bills, jsut by itself......just like rumor has it that the dubai airport pays dubai's govt's bill just on its own......

2. open the punjab borders with india, for trade and tourism, and allow indiain punjabis free access to pakistan's punjab, and then extend it out to the rest of india, slowly......

3. build a city called, "new lahore" on the border of india and pakistan, next to lahore......make it the trade center of india and pakistan......allow indian companies to own land and build offices there......it will quickly become the biggest city west of delhi and will dwarf gurgaon and chandigarh etc......connect this to gwadar, as well, and make it a centerpoint of indian trade to the gulf.....

4. give india access to the pipeline network through pakistan to iran and central asia.....indian economy will hit a plateau if it cannot get access to gas from qatar and central asia and iran......at the moment, india uses 1/6th of the gas, from per person, in comparison to pakistan, at the moment......

5. privatize the pakistan defence manufacturing industry and make it the primary source of defence equipment for the middle eastern muslim countries.....

6. make pakistan the banking center for the middle east market - specifically for islamic banking, which is ready to boom......pakistan is the going to be the biggest retail market for islamic banking and for human resources in this area...pakistani banks have been totally restructured in the last ten years......

7. pakistan is one of the fastest booming telecom markets in the world, from the retail side.....it needs to starts building on this and starts to initiate knowledge transfer from the companies selling to pakistan......

8. use the recent boom in the pakistani media to make it the central media platform for the muslim countries and market.....al-jazeera started with an investment of 30 million and now relies on foreigners to run it.....it is the main news source in the muslim world.....i think pakistani media and quickly take that spot and become a the voice of the islamic world, in the international arena, without needeing foreign assistance.......

these are some the things pakistan can do....out of these, pakistan is doing 1 and 6 (to some extent).....pakistan can go head to head with the world, now, in banking, telecom (retail), small arms defence manufacturing and large arms overhauling......if all this can be added to pakistan geographical location of being a center point for logistics and transportation for china and india, it should be set economically for the coming decades.......as india and china grows, pakistan will grow automatically; perhaps faster as it sits at the mouth of the strait of hormuz, and can access the middle east muslim markets also.......

115 Jang,

Thanks. Excellent effort.

#109 Posted by ajeya on August 17, 2007 1:52:53 pm


India has the money and the resources to build new airports, get rid of slums like Dharavi, and improve visible signs of prosperity.


India has more than enough money. There are some things a democracy can and can't do. Let me give you an example. The mumbai municipality wanted to widen the the road opposite my grandparents lane in a central part of bombay. Everybody else took the buyout offer for the land for the road widening. One chawl held out for more than 7 years. The government doesn't have the right of eminent domain like it does here. The chawl residents were promised flats in the new buildings but they didn't want to deal with the higher monthly upkeep costs. In China, 2 people from the chawl's "samiti" would have been shot and the road work would start the next day. Such things are not possible in India.

Unlike China, India can't pass a law preventing people from outside bombay coming into bombay to make a living. With land costs being what they are, the migrants have no choice but to live in dharavi.

India has good reason to be proud of the educational system and now the increasingly entrepreneurial culture that's an integral part of Indian society. Now there are people(and they know who they are) who will tell you that an educational system is no big deal but as the experience of other countries in the neighborhood shows, you can't build an educational system overnight and go from madrassahs to IITs. The other countries even tried to come up with a program to fill the phd gap with India..chalk that up to neighbor's envy...that, of course, didn't go so well...

This other country: In 1998, I heard an inteview by one of it's minister's mocking the ambassador car he saw in India. Less than 10 years since, India makes and exports cars and Chennai is a major automobile hub...Now this other country: it just assembles CKD and SKD kits..oh..it also has an indigenous car called the maybe..as in maybe it's a car maybe it's a golf cart...

#116 Posted by bulleya on August 17, 2007 2:24:08 pm


4. give india access to the pipeline network through pakistan to iran and central asia


Captain clueless...I know pakis are cartographically challenged but even you should be able to pull up a resource map of central asia to see where the real reserves of gas are and how far those areas are from the land of the pure..

there's also this other pesky problem of a sovereign country of afghanistan..now that your buddies the talibunnies don't control afghanistan, aren't you presuming they'll look favorably to the land of the pure sending islamic terrorists into their country...

Arjun,

Petroleum reserves are in Central Asia and Siberia. If not from Afghanistan they can come through Iran.

Re # 98

Cobra:

These are outlandish, and certainly out of the box at the very least.

Separation of power is a big problem, military keeps coming in civilian pants or whatever else.

Punjabi muslims and Pathans have a highly respected martial history, and probably get restless if their fighting machinery is not well oiled and frequently exercised.

haha arjun what happened 2 u - r u chikin - go ahead name this other country - dont mind zina
btw did u c the front page story in nyt a few months back abt this woman who refuses 2 sell her house & there is development all around her & shes counting on the publicity 2 keep the governments paws off her - this was china in case u r wondering
i hear injun pols can do whatever they want - y not the gummit

does the 'poor' neighbor here refer 2 inja

Re: # 116

Romair:

You must present this blueprint to Prime Minister's Office in Islamabad. Even Arjun could only find issues with #4, something that may no longer an issue after such an integration of economies take place. This will require radical thinking in terms of economy in Islamabad. Even though historically, that part of South Asia played similar roles - food bowl, cross roads and military resource.

You can quantify each of the points in terms of contribution to GDP. I do believe decline of nation-state in favor of regional economic blocks.

#123,

"I do believe decline of nation-state in favor of regional economic blocks. "

Are you harboring the dreams of Akhand Bharat under the guise ;)

{{Amid all the hoopla surrounding the 60th anniversary of Indian independence, almost nothing has been heard from Pakistan, which turns 60 today}}

Bill, no offense but that is plain stupid!

There was actually a grand Pakistan Day parade in London followed by a well-attended concert in which several Pakistani musicians including Ali Zafar, Najam Shiraz and Hadiqa Kiyani mesmerized audiences with patriotic and pop numbers. There were of course celebrations across Pakistan, but this London celebration was all the more epochal because this is where British citizens of Pakistani descent blew up the underground in July 2005. Many whites turned out in great numbers to show their solidarity with the real Pakistan. The entire ceremony was televised live on Geo TV.

Next time, please take your blinkers off before writing gibberish like this.

Rafia #108: "Pakistan is a beautiful country;with resilient and talented people." Yes indeed. And these people make up for the poor government. And like you, I too know that Pakistan will keep moving forward.

Pardesi #104: It is not mere glitter, rest assured. And on education, one significant point the writer missed is non-government schools. NGO and other private schools have flourished in Pakistan through private efforts. In fact, the big change in Pakistan over the past 20 years is that even in the remotest parts of Pakistan people have become aware of the importance of education. So, it is not mere glitter in Pakistan.

Bulleya:116

You excitement, your optimism almost a pollyana seems contagious...and dangerously so.

While admiring the creative streak in you, please remember that the Pre-1857, pre-1757, ANDS pre-1657 little by little everything was being outsourced to the company...and the company had guns & ammunition & technology to enforce its "writ" all over the land.

If one cannot defend oneself, outsourcing is the first step towards leaving the palace affairs to the servants..litlle by little servants start dictating when, why, & where the Master spends his days.

In fact allowing the chowkidaaars, the cantonment Kuttaas, to manage our affairs is one key reason for our decline. Sometimes "OUT"-sourcing is done "inside" also.

THre is an old classic "The Servant" with Dirk Bogard..excellent movie by all counts..and there is a lesson in it for all..though it is addressed to the British aristocracy as to why the empire fell ( very subtly..no empire scenes there..it is NOT a historical movie)

Re: # 124

Cobra sahib:

Get lost is what comes to my mind.

If Akhand Bharat is all that you can think, your figment of imagination is very stale. Your sense of smell is all dead, and therefore, I cannot even say smell the coffee.

The world has moved way beyond your thinking.