The 'poor' Neighbour

#30 Posted by zeemax on August 17, 2007 6:24:11 am



Looks like the thieves are sharing stolen passwords of Pakistani magazines around.


Poor paki cab drivers and 7/11 clerks can't afford 20$/yr? Maybe we can set up a charity or something..all excess money can be used to buy deodorant..

I recently saw a bbc 2 program on Partition, and there was a Lahori man who lived in Lahore all his life before and after partition, he said that the Hindus wouldn't even let Muslims drink water from the same well if they did they attached a pipe and gave it to them thru the pipe... There was a Lahori Hindu describing how his mother would never let her Muslim neighbbours into her kitchen at time of eating and would never eat anything from them, he also said it was this sort of behaviour that led to the creation of Pakistan.

As much as i dont get on with people like Atif and Zeemax, the fact is we are Pakistani and we have our own country and we can debate about how we want it to go, at least we have it and its ours there is no one treating us worse than untouchables... 'achoot se bhi badtar hamey samjha jata tha' were the words he used to describe how Hindus looked at Muslims... Shuker Allah Jinaah came and made our country, now i know for sure Pakistan was never a mistake and it was something that had to happen, look at Gujerat and Kashmir, Allah ka lakh lakh shuker haiN we dont live with that stuff.

This India Pakistan season has been very infomative, you hear the real stories and realise why our country was created. Even now look at how fascist Hindus are here on chowk, not to another race but their own race, Jatt, Rajput, Gujjer and other castes their own kind and look how vile they treated them...

Maybe when Hitler stole the swastika from Hindus to use in his campaign maybe he wasn't too far off from the truth cause this symbol, now, to me represents fascism at its peak...

No wonder so many religions took hold in India, becasue Hinduism as practiced today is itself flawed majorly, it punishes its own people, people are telling Muslims its time for reform and sure enuff it is, we admit that and are talking about it, but i know that Hinduism itself needs major reform, look at all the caste wars, this is the scourge of South Asia. Also the severly insecure 'i am better than you so dont touch me you impure person' attitude of its followers needs to change, until then they will never find harmony in their faith or country... this prejudice is its inherent flaw and it doesnt take a genious to point it out...

its such a shame, the root cause for the break up of India is the fascist faith of Indians... its saddening but now i can understand where all this vile hatred comes from within Hindu Indians...

Pakistan Zindabad!!!

Most Indians completely subscribe to the TNT(Terrorist(pakiland) Nation Theory)..

If it weren't for TNT, the headlines would read british citizens of indian descent blow up subway/ plan to blow up ministry of sound/ plan to poison people/ plan to blow up airlines over the atlantic etc etc.

Ally, if you don't get on with atif and zee, the problem may be at much with you as with them. Those two are among the smartest of chowkies and first-rate people.

Drop the baggage (as much as you can) and look at the world with open eyes. You may find the much-needed dawa-i-dill :)

Aaah!William Dalrymple
wished he had a less taxing last name.

White Mughals: Excellent work , perhaps THE BEST in the faction genre (fact+fiction) in the english language.

City of Djinns:
good primer for those who are illiterate in Urdu, which has wealth of amazing stuff.

Last Mughal: ...ditto...as above. would only excite those who are Urdu challenged.

His book on China , I do want to read someday. Believe that was his first.
________________________________________________________

I tremendously admire William D for his dedication to his work. He lives in Dahlee with his wife. Both are descendents of two of THE most influential figures of pre-1857 Dahlee
Metcalfe & Fraser.

Yet I hold him accountable for this quote by that Kanjaroon:

"As Jugnu Mohsin, the publisher of the Lahore-based Friday Times, put it recently, "After a period of relative quiet, for the first time in a decade, we are back to the old question: it is not just whether Pakistan, but will Pakistan survive?" On the country's 60th birthday, the answer is by no means clear."

Suddenly this "failed" state kind of buzz-words are being bandied around and if one notices such blasphemy is only uttered by the Kanjaroon sect. The reason is that it is in fact their own Kanjar behaviour which is being snuffed out by , mashaAllah, the ones with Hijaabs, Niquaabs, DarRhees, & Shalwaars..the day is not far off when these Kanjaroons would wish that they be allowed to live as muslims or leave Pakistan as Kanjaroons.

Prosperity has nothing whatsoever to do with cell-phones or stock-market indexes. Las Vegas will always be "rich" with its garish neon-signs & Kanjaroon clientele. Kansas will always be "poor" because the son has to look after the family farm & his father & not leave them for a few Dollars more in Kanjaroon-lands.

Cube has a per capita income of $4200 whereas Pakistan's per Capita is $2400.

There is no FAILED STATE ever! It is the failed westerm systems like CAPITALISM & COMMUNISM which has brought misfortune & misery upon billions on this earth. Just imagine the two sects of Darwanism going to two "GREAT" wars [ since when wars are great? simply because the bastards won?] to prove their religion of Darwinism right.

It was just in the 80's when the Banks gloated that it is very safe to lend money to the poorest nations..& in their words "because nations never go broke , like the companies"..

ALLAMA Iqbal saw through this charade . What a guy indeed!

Laakhh Laanut on the Westernism...AaaakHHHH Thhhhhhhooo!

[#34 Posted by Ally on August 17, 2007 7:02:37 am]

The behaviour you describe was seen by my mother in Muslims also. So the problem goes back to long time ealier when Muslims were violent and looted and raped. You cannot wish away human memory. If humans had been reptiles there would not be a problem. But they are not reptiles.

Islam is a jinxed religion. It asks its believer to convert. Hinduism is not like that. In Hinduism there are not one book but many books. When Brahmo movement began there was no consensus as to which scriptures are "true" source of Hinduism. Currently popular sanskrit words are in 4 lines of Bhagavat Gita:

Karmanye Vaadhikaa rastey
Maa phaleshu kadaachana
Maa karmaphal hetur bhoor
Maa te sangostwakarmani

Most of Hindu who manage to become interested in these lines come to know its meaning as best as a Guru can explain and they can understand. These lines mean: On deeds (karms) is your claim and jurisdiction, on their consequences you have none (those being business of mother nature, god etc), neither the realisation that consequence is going to be good must encourage you to do your deeds, nor that consequence is going to be bad must discourage you from doing your deeds (in other words deeds have absolute worthiness which and only which should be object of inquiry). For figuring worthiness of deed you can use your judgement or ask guidance of a guru.

Are Americans justified in being wary of Muslims after 9/11? If they are why should not the Hindus of past be allowed same tendency? Why should a Hindu trust a Muslim after he has killed or raped? If American were reptiles they would forget about 9/11 on 9/12. Americans are not reptiles.

Great article!

If I had written the same in my "A Pakistani American

in India" article, Indian readers would consider it

biased. But in spite of the Indian boom, on the whole

I found Pakistan looking more affluent than India (

neither one is without infrastructure problems).

Will Pakistan Survive? "Inshallah" is the common reply.

Indeed "God Willing" is the predominant attitude there.

What Pakistanis could use is a "Team Management" concept

the one can only hope that they will discover sooner

than later. No more superstars please!

Pakistan's problems are with its high expectations and

little to back them up. It needs to sacrifice in some

areas (we know what those are) and hit its social sector

with as many resources that it can afford.

India is booming,and I for one am happy about it.

But it has substantially more problems.

The Kashmir issue has retarded growth in the region

too long. In Pakistan's case, they need less military

and more people empowerment. The Musharraf regime appears

to be beginning to recognize that.

In either case I found that poverty is the biggest factor.

India's poor are many and very poor. But Pakistan's poor

are not improving their lot because the country is too busy

correcting one political disaster after another.

As they say "Inshallah"...

Ras

Uh-oh...this won't go down well with the kuldip nayyar clones and the reality-challenged pakis

Undersea play: BSNL, MTNL to link Pak, Iran

TNN[ FRIDAY, AUGUST 17, 2007 01:37:09 PM]
NEW DELHI: Public sector BSNL and MTNL plan to provide international connectivity to telcos in Pakistan, Iran and Bangladesh by allowing operators from these countries to link to its upcoming submarine cables to Europe and South-East Asia.

Millennium Telecom Ltd (MTL), the JV company formed by the two PSUs will build the undersea links which will connect India to South Asia and West Asia and later expanded to the US and Europe, respectively.

MTL has also appointed UK-based Dataware Ltd as the consultant for phase I of the Rs 1,800-crore cable project and France’s Axiom as the phase II consultant. The phase I consultant will examine the feasibility of the project and the return on investment while the phase II will provide assistance to MTL till the completion of the project, company sources said.

According to BSNL executives, the eastern leg of the cable which terminates in Singapore will have branches to Bangladesh, Myanmar, Andaman & Nicobar Islands, Thailand, and Indonesia. As per the plans, the Western link to Europe will touch United Arab Emirates, Saudi Arabia, with branches to Pakistan Oman, Iran, Qatar and Kuwait.

While the cable will primarily be used for carrying voice and data traffic from India to these countries, it will also enable telcos from these countries to carry their traffic to Europe, Singapore and other countries which the undersea link touches. Sources said that MTL has already initiated talks with these countries for landing station rights for the submarine cable project.

At present, though both BSNL and MTNL have international long distance licence, they depend on private undersea operators to carry most of its traffic. Private players like Bharti Airtel, Reliance Communications (Flag Telecom) and Tatas-owned VSNL all own undersea cables.

A top source in the ministry for communication and IT told that the government was clearing the decks for BSNL to foray into global markets by floating an international subsidiary called BSNL Videsh. According to sources, in the first phase BSNL Videsh will oversee the PSU’s ILD operations.

The government wants this subsidiary to be modelled on the likes of Tatas owned VSNL and be a major player in the international undersea cable space. Sources also added that BSNL Videsh would act as the business arm of MTL, which would be the infrastructure service provider.

According to the agreement between both the PSUs last year, BSNL and MTNL had given an undertaking that they would use MTL’s infrastructure for a minimum period of 20 years. The deal, also stipulates that in case of disinvestment of equity, the first right of equity will be given to the other partner. It also states that the MTL board will be the sole authority dealing with “all matters relating to contract and speedy implementation of the project”.

#37 Posted by echoboom,

Reproduced for your amusememnt :)

#16 Posted by zeemax on August 17, 2007 4:48:47 am
Jugnu Mohsin, the publisher of the Lahore-based Friday Times, put it recently, "After a period of relative quiet, for the first time in a decade, we are back to the old question: it is not just whether Pakistan, but will Pakistan survive?"

Jugnu Mohsin should be asked the following in response:

1) If Pakistan doesn't survive, will it disappear in thin air? Or will there be something else in it's place? India? China? Afghanistan? Iran? Or what?

2) If Pakistan does survive, will the people like Jugnu Mohsin who have permanent residences in New York but run Pakistan, survive?

#39 Posted by Ras on August 17, 2007 8:13:37 am


The Kashmir issue has retarded growth in the region too long. In Pakistan's case, they need less military and more people empowerment.


Really...the "kashmir problem" hasn't stopped india from growing at 7%+ in the last decade and half and 9%+ for the last three years. Pakis would have us believe that if Kashmir was resolved(i.e. status quo altered in Pakiland's favor), poverty would be eliminated from south asia.

OTOH, your use of islamic terrorists to fight your fight means you're having to use white phosphorus on school girls, hand over pakis to the US for a trip to club gitmo, use artillery and helicopter gunships against pakis and in general having to grease up and bend over to foreign powers..

What's ironic is that the paki policy of using islamic terrorism in kashmir has had a major blowback effect that has led to the military taking over the government in pakiland...

Einsteinwallah:

Yaar! you can only sell if you have something worthwhile. The people are always looking for something to better themselves. It is called "growing" up...and not all conversions are at gun-point or by promising good-health /or education. The present day conversions to Islam in the land of the enemies of Islam , and exponentially post-911, is a fact one can deny only at the peril of getting completely discredited.

Of course Hinduism does not convert..but it smothers by its bear-hug..hinduism does not convert, it CANNOT convert even a dalit; their station is determined ordained for their entire generations..it metamorphosizes the other.

It is century 21, do you know where all the Buddhists are?
No they did not convert; they reverted. RIGHT?..Only in India , you say!

zee, let's not be too harsh on liberals, even if they are Pakistani liberals. They feel too threatened by Islamists. They don't get it that Islamists want (need) Pakistan at least as much as, probably much more than, do the nationalists. What they see as the threat is the first glue. Actually, they see a threat to themselves, which they should, if they have any intelligence. :)

'In Pakistan, the literacy figure is under half (it is currently 49%) and falling"

this is a pivotal concept for pakistan.

Not mentioned in this article is the fact that child malnourishment is actually higher in India than africa (source BBC news 8/13/07 indian independance article).

This is a pivotal concept for India. Unless it does a better job of supplying basic food and amenities to its most marginal and despised segments of society, that part of society will be prey to a wide spectrum of diseases including kwashiokor, cretinism etc and arjun will continue to post tripe on chowk.

Someone's really gotten after arjun :)

Zee:41
Yeah saw that & I thought wow! ESP!

thanks.

On the ground, of course, the reality is different and first-time visitors to Pakistan are almost always surprised by the country's visible prosperity. There is far less poverty on show in Pakistan than in India, fewer beggars, and much less desperation. In many ways the infrastructure of Pakistan is much more advanced: there are better roads and airports, and more reliable electricity. Middle-class Pakistani houses are often bigger and better appointed than their equivalents in India.

Moreover, the Pakistani economy is undergoing a construction and consumer boom similar to India's, with growth rates of 7%, and what is currently the fastest-rising stock market in Asia. You can see the effects everywhere: in new shopping centres and restaurant complexes, in the hoardings for the latest laptops and iPods, in the cranes and building sites, in the endless stores selling mobile phones: in 2003 the country had fewer than three million cellphone users; today there are almost 50 million.

Mohsin Hamid, author of the Booker long-listed novel The Reluctant Fundamentalist, wrote about this change after a recent visit: having lived abroad as a banker in New York and London, he returned home to find the country unrecognisable. He was particularly struck by "the incredible new world of media that had sprung up, a world of music videos, fashion programmes, independent news networks, cross-dressing talkshow hosts, religious debates, and stock-market analysis".

I knew, of course, that the government of Pervez Musharraf had opened the media to private operators. But I had not until then realised how profoundly things had changed. Not just television, but private radio stations and newspapers have also flourished in Pakistan over the past few years. The result is an unprecedented openness. Young people are speaking and dressing differently. Views both critical and supportive of the government are voiced with breathtaking frankness in an atmosphere remarkably lacking in censorship. Public space, the common area for culture and expression that had been so circumscribed in my childhood, has now been vastly expanded. The Vagina Monologues was recently performed on stage to standing ovations.

Little of this is reported in the western press, which prefers its sterotypes simple: India-successful; Pakistan-failure.

--an excellent, balanced and fair article. Yes, Pakistan has got problems--which country doesn't?--but as Dalrymple says the reality on the ground is much better than in India. But he has correctly identified the main problems pakistan has although to ask whether it will survive is just hyperbole. THe question is, 'What can be done to solve these 3 issues?' Especially breaking the back of the feudal landlords...

I had hoped that Mushy would have taken on these parasites but he has disappointed. Why not take the army in and forcibly take over their land?