The 'poor' Neighbour
William Dalrymple August 17, 2007
#49 Posted by zeemax on August 17, 2007 8:45:01 am
To the 'kanjaroon' who ask whether or if Pakistan will survive (not only that but also continue to prosper) the following should be told with a megaphone between their ass cheeks (Gawd I'm using Echoboom patented prose :)
Approx $65 billion has flowed into Pakistan since end 2001 which has made the consumer, real estate and equities boom possible. Out of that, some $6-7 billion (@ $100 million per month) has been through logistical support payments from USA in the Afghan war(and NOT aid) plus some portfolio investments by emerging market funds. There has beem NIL FDI from USA in all that period and the figures of even $900 million or so last year are the unrepatriated and poughed-back Rupee profits of existing US owned enterprises in Pakistan. So where did the balance $58-59 billion come from, and continues to come ( FX reserves grew by 60% during just last fiscal)?
It all came as FDI by Saudia, Gulf countries, Egypt, and Malaysia plus foreign worker's remittances and reverse capital flight. Instead of stopping, it will increase with Pakistan's disassociating itself from WOT.
To the great disappointment of the Kanjaroon, the economic boom will remain growing and grow even faster once a firm boot is placed on USA's behind plus it's slave kanjaroons.
(Echoboom, please send me the bill for copyright use).
Approx $65 billion has flowed into Pakistan since end 2001 which has made the consumer, real estate and equities boom possible. Out of that, some $6-7 billion (@ $100 million per month) has been through logistical support payments from USA in the Afghan war(and NOT aid) plus some portfolio investments by emerging market funds. There has beem NIL FDI from USA in all that period and the figures of even $900 million or so last year are the unrepatriated and poughed-back Rupee profits of existing US owned enterprises in Pakistan. So where did the balance $58-59 billion come from, and continues to come ( FX reserves grew by 60% during just last fiscal)?
It all came as FDI by Saudia, Gulf countries, Egypt, and Malaysia plus foreign worker's remittances and reverse capital flight. Instead of stopping, it will increase with Pakistan's disassociating itself from WOT.
To the great disappointment of the Kanjaroon, the economic boom will remain growing and grow even faster once a firm boot is placed on USA's behind plus it's slave kanjaroons.
(Echoboom, please send me the bill for copyright use).
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#50 Posted by arjun2 on August 17, 2007 8:47:11 am
#49 Posted by zeemax on August 17, 2007 8:45:01 am
To the great disappointment of the Kanjaroon, the economic boom will remain growing and grow even faster once a firm boot is placed on USA's behind plus it's slave kanjaroons.
If that happens, there will also be a new aviation boom in the land of the pure. You can sell tickets for people to ride on the flying pigs.
To the great disappointment of the Kanjaroon, the economic boom will remain growing and grow even faster once a firm boot is placed on USA's behind plus it's slave kanjaroons.
If that happens, there will also be a new aviation boom in the land of the pure. You can sell tickets for people to ride on the flying pigs.
#51 Posted by arjun2 on August 17, 2007 8:49:23 am
#48 Posted by Naqshbandi on August 17, 2007 8:41:45 am
Yes, Pakistan has got problems--which country doesn't?-
Pakiland's bigget problem - the fact that it's the fountainhead of global islamic terrorism - is everybody's problem...
From people riding the subway to people flying transatlantic to people in london who just want to party at the ministry of sound etc etc...
Yes, Pakistan has got problems--which country doesn't?-
Pakiland's bigget problem - the fact that it's the fountainhead of global islamic terrorism - is everybody's problem...
From people riding the subway to people flying transatlantic to people in london who just want to party at the ministry of sound etc etc...
#52 Posted by zeemax on August 17, 2007 8:56:29 am
#44 Posted by KaalChakra
zee, let's not be too harsh on liberals, even if they are Pakistani liberals. They feel too threatened by Islamists. They don't get it that Islamists want (need) Pakistan at least as much as, probably much more than, do the nationalists. What they see as the threat is the first glue. Actually, they see a threat to themselves, which they should, if they have any intelligence. :)
Yes I know Kaal. But I have no sympathy left for them anymore (I did before ... remember my iLogs?) after some of these were heard saying that the Jamia Hafsa people will walk out once their refrigeration ran out and their food stock started to rot.
zee, let's not be too harsh on liberals, even if they are Pakistani liberals. They feel too threatened by Islamists. They don't get it that Islamists want (need) Pakistan at least as much as, probably much more than, do the nationalists. What they see as the threat is the first glue. Actually, they see a threat to themselves, which they should, if they have any intelligence. :)
Yes I know Kaal. But I have no sympathy left for them anymore (I did before ... remember my iLogs?) after some of these were heard saying that the Jamia Hafsa people will walk out once their refrigeration ran out and their food stock started to rot.
#53 Posted by arjun2 on August 17, 2007 8:56:58 am
The forbes list of most corrupt nations is out. congrats pakis..you beat out india..
#1 Haiti
#2 Myanmar
#3 Iraq
#4 Guinea
#5 Sudan
#6 Democratic republic of Congo
#7 Chad
#8 Bangladesh
#9 Uzbekistan
#10 Equatorial Guinea
#11 Cote d'Ivoire
#12 Cambodia
#13 Belarus
#14 Turkmenistan
#15 Tajikistan
#16 Sierra Leone
#17 Pakistan
#18 Nigeria
#19 Kyrgyszstan
#20 Kenya
#1 Haiti
#2 Myanmar
#3 Iraq
#4 Guinea
#5 Sudan
#6 Democratic republic of Congo
#7 Chad
#8 Bangladesh
#9 Uzbekistan
#10 Equatorial Guinea
#11 Cote d'Ivoire
#12 Cambodia
#13 Belarus
#14 Turkmenistan
#15 Tajikistan
#16 Sierra Leone
#17 Pakistan
#18 Nigeria
#19 Kyrgyszstan
#20 Kenya
#54 Posted by arjun2 on August 17, 2007 9:01:33 am
good for the good doctor..
I'm not going to bother with hotlinking the urls..
http://www.rediff.com/news/2007/aug/17ndeal7.htm
What Dr Singh told Bush on N-deal
Prime Minister Manmohan Singh [Images] has made it clear to President George W Bush [Images] during negotiations on the Indo-US nuclear deal that India could not agree to a 'bilateral' Non-Proliferation Treaty or the Comprehensive Test Ban Treaty (CTBT). He also said that it was not in India's interest for Iran to become a nuclear weapons power though it had the right to have nuclear energy as an NPT member.
"I told Bush that I can't be a cheer leader or be part of a war-mongering group. The nuclear dispute with Iran should be resolved through peaceful processes," he told a magazine in an interview.
The prime minister spoke to the magazine two months ago while he was returning from the G-8 Summit. The magazine said its understanding was that excerpts of the interview could be published once the 123 Agreement was reached.
Singh said the US President told him in July, 2005: "Don't expect me to help you to build bombs. I told him I didn't expect the US to do that because with our previous achievements, we didn't need anyone's help."
The prime minister said, "I made it clear during the negotiations that we can't agree to a bilateral NPT or CTBT. We have a unilateral moratorium on nuclear testing and we will exercise restraint".
"We wanted to be transparent because of the deep suspicions about the US among our political, intellectual and scientific class. In Parliament, we drew red lines on the deal that we wouldn't cross. I even told President Bush that just as he has a Congress, I have one too. My commitments to Parliament acted as a disciplining force without which we would have been vulnerable while negotiating with the US later," Singh said.
Singh, who has been under attack from the Opposition and the Left allies over the nuclear cooperation agreement, contended that the deal was a "logical fallout" of the Next Steps in Strategic Partnership that the National Democratic Alliance government headed by Atal Bihari Vajpayee had begun with the US.
"It was an outcome of that process. While we had successfully made nuclear weapons, on the power front there were too many shifting targets. We had set a target of 10,000 MW of nuclear power almost 35 years ago and now we have only around 3,700 MW. The deal would help us meet our targets for nuclear power," he told the magazine.
About the Bharatiya Janata Party, he said, "It requires a big leap in approach and the attitude of the BJP is disappointing. They didn't even believe I would last as the prime minister and some leaders even did havans that I should die on a certain day. But I have faith in a higher force. I believe it was my destiny to be the prime minister. I have the courage of conviction."
On nuclear scientists, he said, "I have a great respect for them. Although they don't have a veto on the deal, I felt we needed them to be on board. They had faced the bad side of the US � the isolation and the suspicion � and I had to take them along. "
The prime minister said he felt dreadful about a world full of nuclear weapons. "Now there are even dangers of a dirty bomb and non-state actors using it. The world could end up with a catastrophe, he said.
Describing Bush as a "very easy person" to deal with, Singh said, "He is very nice to me and of all the US Presidents, he is the friendliest towards India."
Noting that the US had become the "sole superpower" almost 15 years ago, he said, "But all these years, no Indian government had the courage to change our policy towards the US.
"It was felt during the foreign policy review that Indo-US relations were the key in a globalised world and we needed to give them the highest importance," the prime minister said.
"I believe in being friends to all countries and we had to open new pathways to do that. We need to change the cycle. The guiding principle is to resolve disputes without creating fear and uncertainty. On Pakistan and China, we are on track. In Indo-US relations, the nuclear issue was an irritant and the deal works towards removing that. As regards our international status, in major forums now China and India are mentioned in the same breath. That is something deeply satisfying.
But there is no scope for complacency. We can't take our place in the world for granted. We need to work harder, harder, harder, the prime minister said.
I'm not going to bother with hotlinking the urls..
http://www.rediff.com/news/2007/aug/17ndeal7.htm
What Dr Singh told Bush on N-deal
Prime Minister Manmohan Singh [Images] has made it clear to President George W Bush [Images] during negotiations on the Indo-US nuclear deal that India could not agree to a 'bilateral' Non-Proliferation Treaty or the Comprehensive Test Ban Treaty (CTBT). He also said that it was not in India's interest for Iran to become a nuclear weapons power though it had the right to have nuclear energy as an NPT member.
"I told Bush that I can't be a cheer leader or be part of a war-mongering group. The nuclear dispute with Iran should be resolved through peaceful processes," he told a magazine in an interview.
The prime minister spoke to the magazine two months ago while he was returning from the G-8 Summit. The magazine said its understanding was that excerpts of the interview could be published once the 123 Agreement was reached.
Singh said the US President told him in July, 2005: "Don't expect me to help you to build bombs. I told him I didn't expect the US to do that because with our previous achievements, we didn't need anyone's help."
The prime minister said, "I made it clear during the negotiations that we can't agree to a bilateral NPT or CTBT. We have a unilateral moratorium on nuclear testing and we will exercise restraint".
"We wanted to be transparent because of the deep suspicions about the US among our political, intellectual and scientific class. In Parliament, we drew red lines on the deal that we wouldn't cross. I even told President Bush that just as he has a Congress, I have one too. My commitments to Parliament acted as a disciplining force without which we would have been vulnerable while negotiating with the US later," Singh said.
Singh, who has been under attack from the Opposition and the Left allies over the nuclear cooperation agreement, contended that the deal was a "logical fallout" of the Next Steps in Strategic Partnership that the National Democratic Alliance government headed by Atal Bihari Vajpayee had begun with the US.
"It was an outcome of that process. While we had successfully made nuclear weapons, on the power front there were too many shifting targets. We had set a target of 10,000 MW of nuclear power almost 35 years ago and now we have only around 3,700 MW. The deal would help us meet our targets for nuclear power," he told the magazine.
About the Bharatiya Janata Party, he said, "It requires a big leap in approach and the attitude of the BJP is disappointing. They didn't even believe I would last as the prime minister and some leaders even did havans that I should die on a certain day. But I have faith in a higher force. I believe it was my destiny to be the prime minister. I have the courage of conviction."
On nuclear scientists, he said, "I have a great respect for them. Although they don't have a veto on the deal, I felt we needed them to be on board. They had faced the bad side of the US � the isolation and the suspicion � and I had to take them along. "
The prime minister said he felt dreadful about a world full of nuclear weapons. "Now there are even dangers of a dirty bomb and non-state actors using it. The world could end up with a catastrophe, he said.
Describing Bush as a "very easy person" to deal with, Singh said, "He is very nice to me and of all the US Presidents, he is the friendliest towards India."
Noting that the US had become the "sole superpower" almost 15 years ago, he said, "But all these years, no Indian government had the courage to change our policy towards the US.
"It was felt during the foreign policy review that Indo-US relations were the key in a globalised world and we needed to give them the highest importance," the prime minister said.
"I believe in being friends to all countries and we had to open new pathways to do that. We need to change the cycle. The guiding principle is to resolve disputes without creating fear and uncertainty. On Pakistan and China, we are on track. In Indo-US relations, the nuclear issue was an irritant and the deal works towards removing that. As regards our international status, in major forums now China and India are mentioned in the same breath. That is something deeply satisfying.
But there is no scope for complacency. We can't take our place in the world for granted. We need to work harder, harder, harder, the prime minister said.
#55 Posted by cliftonbridge on August 17, 2007 9:02:19 am
kaal hoping for the end of malnutrition is not a crime :)
#56 Posted by zeemax on August 17, 2007 9:05:13 am
#48 Posted by Naqshbandi,
Why not take the army in and forcibly take over their land?
Nice Sufi thought :) Even I did not support forcible occupation of the library by Hafsa but obviously you did!
Or is it simply that all you folks are twin-faced hypocrites?
Why not take the army in and forcibly take over their land?
Nice Sufi thought :) Even I did not support forcible occupation of the library by Hafsa but obviously you did!
Or is it simply that all you folks are twin-faced hypocrites?
#57 Posted by Ranjit on August 17, 2007 9:11:51 am
The author's points about the difference in visible affluence of the two countries should be taken seriously. India certainly faces a massive infrastructure crisis and our political bickering is severely slowing us down, which ultimately impacts our economic prospects. The Delhi airport stinks of urine even to this day with worn out carpeting and third class furnishings right from the jetways to the terminal. The area outside Delhi airport is a zoo with a free for all among ten thousand vehicles. Even in posh parts of Delhi, there are severe power shortages and water shortage. Roads are in crappy conditions. On my visit to Delhi, we drove from Delhi to Hardwar. The road trip was a nightmare, especially in the western UP section after Ghaziabad. In the areas near Muzaffarnagar, Meerut etc, the highways have craters like it is in a war zone or something.
The new areas like Gurgaon and Noida are doing really well, but in these cases, most residential complexes and high rises are using their own power systems and water supply. I think the key lies in privatization. All utilities, roads etc should be privatized. I remember the phones used to be really bad until the telecome sector started booming with all the cell phone companies. Now phones are not an issue any more. The same needs to happen with all utilities.
Unfortunately the communist parties, who are part of the ruling setup, will not allow any infrastructure improvements at all. They resist anything that allows India to improve, even by a small measure. It is very frustrating to see India being held hostage by elements who are determined to keep us in a crappy state. The sad part is that people now have money in India. The place is flourishing but the infrastructure just does not improve. Thats why anyone coming from outside feels that there is more visible poverty. Its a frikking shame.
The new areas like Gurgaon and Noida are doing really well, but in these cases, most residential complexes and high rises are using their own power systems and water supply. I think the key lies in privatization. All utilities, roads etc should be privatized. I remember the phones used to be really bad until the telecome sector started booming with all the cell phone companies. Now phones are not an issue any more. The same needs to happen with all utilities.
Unfortunately the communist parties, who are part of the ruling setup, will not allow any infrastructure improvements at all. They resist anything that allows India to improve, even by a small measure. It is very frustrating to see India being held hostage by elements who are determined to keep us in a crappy state. The sad part is that people now have money in India. The place is flourishing but the infrastructure just does not improve. Thats why anyone coming from outside feels that there is more visible poverty. Its a frikking shame.
#58 Posted by dawa-i-dil on August 17, 2007 9:15:35 am
Re: # 31 zeemax
hehehehe...i add it now....people are curious to know..about you..who unleashed the "beauty" of shining india...
hehehehe...i add it now....people are curious to know..about you..who unleashed the "beauty" of shining india...
#59 Posted by cliftonbridge on August 17, 2007 9:16:24 am
ranjit , seriuosly , i heard dehli put in a bid for nascar, my friends from dehli say the same thing about dehli roads ...is there a scheme to improve them?
BTW i have also heard that the dehli subway is still pan free and urine free months after its inaugaration ...so clearly there is hope.
BTW i have also heard that the dehli subway is still pan free and urine free months after its inaugaration ...so clearly there is hope.
#60 Posted by dawa-i-dil on August 17, 2007 9:17:26 am
Re: # 32
post by zeemax...
Haha Dawai-Dil ... you're the limit ... You labelled the links:
"nude pics ..plz...girls are not allowed ...."
LoL
mai nai kaha masoom choti chothi bachiayya hai..kahee shining india kee beauty ko daikh kar dar na jai....
post by zeemax...
Haha Dawai-Dil ... you're the limit ... You labelled the links:
"nude pics ..plz...girls are not allowed ...."
LoL
mai nai kaha masoom choti chothi bachiayya hai..kahee shining india kee beauty ko daikh kar dar na jai....
#61 Posted by chaltahai on August 17, 2007 9:30:52 am
ranjit, the lala who has a pan after lunch at Nirulas in Connaught Place and spits out the juice allover the walls nearby would dare not do that at the Maurya Sheraton. Why?
#62 Posted by Ranjit on August 17, 2007 9:35:33 am
Re:clifton
I hate to say this but basically North Indians have a very poor civic sense. Whether it is collective hygiene or upgrading infrastructure or general cleanliness, they have a very high threshold of tolerance for a crappy situation. In fact, they positively wallow in filth. It must be a legacy of past subjugation and acceptance of lousy conditions as destiny, that there is very little outrage at horrible conditions.
We went to Hardwar since it is a hindu pilgrimage on the banks of Ganga. It is termed as "Devbhoomi" or the abode of Gods. The natural beauty there in terms of the river and the surroundings is awesome. However, the man made filth there will make your stomach turn. The Ghat on the banks of Ganga is just gross. It is filthy beyond imagination. Garbage is piled up all over the place, flies are swarming, people urniating or doing nature's call, it is just appalling. Its not that people are poor. Most people coming there are probably middle class or lower middle class hindus. But there is absolutely no maintenance and it is filthy to the core. We took one look at it and decided to get the hell out of it as we scooted back to Delhi.
I hate to say this but basically North Indians have a very poor civic sense. Whether it is collective hygiene or upgrading infrastructure or general cleanliness, they have a very high threshold of tolerance for a crappy situation. In fact, they positively wallow in filth. It must be a legacy of past subjugation and acceptance of lousy conditions as destiny, that there is very little outrage at horrible conditions.
We went to Hardwar since it is a hindu pilgrimage on the banks of Ganga. It is termed as "Devbhoomi" or the abode of Gods. The natural beauty there in terms of the river and the surroundings is awesome. However, the man made filth there will make your stomach turn. The Ghat on the banks of Ganga is just gross. It is filthy beyond imagination. Garbage is piled up all over the place, flies are swarming, people urniating or doing nature's call, it is just appalling. Its not that people are poor. Most people coming there are probably middle class or lower middle class hindus. But there is absolutely no maintenance and it is filthy to the core. We took one look at it and decided to get the hell out of it as we scooted back to Delhi.
#63 Posted by dawa-i-dil on August 17, 2007 9:36:20 am
Re: # 61
he will spit it on Pahr Gunk..lodhi Colony......Qarol bagh..as theseare mulims areas...
amma yaar..he can also spit in Mir Fathaullah Khan Phatak..Gali qasim Jan...Mohallah Balli Maro....
i mean in front of Ghalib haveli..as he was also muslim...
he will spit it on Pahr Gunk..lodhi Colony......Qarol bagh..as theseare mulims areas...
amma yaar..he can also spit in Mir Fathaullah Khan Phatak..Gali qasim Jan...Mohallah Balli Maro....
i mean in front of Ghalib haveli..as he was also muslim...
#64 Posted by dawa-i-dil on August 17, 2007 9:38:27 am
i dont know namak haram kee haveli ..is now muslim area or hindu...
but Chandni Chowk all shops are now indians..as muslims are socially boy cotted in markets..and have to close thier shops...
but Chandni Chowk all shops are now indians..as muslims are socially boy cotted in markets..and have to close thier shops...
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