Independence Thinker

To these venugopals ram rajya can't be anything other than Islamic sharia, and the following cannot be anything other than a call for Hindu fascism..

Ishwar Allah tero naam
sabko sanmati de bhagwaan...

One has no problem with damnrimples and pat frenches talking from their wrong ends, or Muslims not having full information, but one has a right and a need to be concerned about venugopals of the world.

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In any case, here is the picture of the moron, Arun Venugopal:

http://www.newschool.edu/milano/nycaffairs/feet2worlds/theteam.htm l


Debates about Gandhi are important to those who like to engage in them.

We need to be far more concerned about why some Hindus dedicate their lives to spreading hatred and outright lies about Hindus themselves. And, understanding who these people are. My first guess is: these are the Hindus who, for some reason, have become complete outsiders even being Hindu in name.

Nothing wrong in being an outsider. Except that, given the overwhelming dominance of semitic religious mindset, from the outside Hinduism does look like a weird religion, and Hindus a weird people.

Arun Venugopal, reporter
http://www.newschool.edu/milano/nycaffairs/feet2worlds/theteam.html



Arun Venugopal was raised and attended college in Texas, but has lived on and off in India, first as a student and later as an advertising copywriter with Ogilvy & Mather. He worked on film productions in New Delhi and New York before becoming a journalist. He is a reporter for India Abroad and its online counterpart, Rediff.com. His work has appeared in Newsday, The Seattle Times, The Washington Post and Beliefnet, where he was a former editor, as well as Outlook magazine and The Economic Times in India.
He contributed to Voices of Healing, an anthology dealing with 9/11 and its impact on the Asian American community. Arun has a Masters in Media Studies from the New School, and lives in Brooklyn with his wife, writer Meera Nair, and their daughter.

#219

[inveterate hatred of the Jinnah]

Dil jo bhi kahega - maaneNge
Duniya meiN bichara -- dil hi to hai...

re: hamidm2 # 226

LOL. In addition, mem sahib was threatening to start illicit liaisons with the naked man's (handsome and charming?) children. Sahib had to pack up double quick. :)

everybody loves gandhiji

mem sahib: oh virgil, look at that poor naked man starving imself to death - what does he want ?

sahib: the man is an idiot ...... just forget about him .... here, give me a kiss

mem sahib: but just look at him - he looks so weak and scrawny and emaciated and he has no hair and no shoes and people tell me that he hasn`t had sex in forty years .....

sahib (a little irritated): would you want to have sex with a man who looks like him !

mem sahib: no dear - but we are christians and we have to show compassion for these poor starving heathens because god entrusted them in our care ....... what does the poor man want ?

sahib: that idiot wants freedom - he wants us to pack up and go back to england so that he can go back to living in a mud hut with his goat and nieces ........ ingrate ! ....... he doesn`t know how good he has it - electricity, the kutchery, high tea, polo and the hill stations in uti and simla .......... these natives are incorrigible !

mem sahib: but dear, he looks so miserable, so pathetic and look !..... look at all the flies buzzing around him - the poor man doesn`t even have the energy to shoo them away !.......... please, oh please - let him have his independence .... let`s go home - i am tired of living in this miserable place anyway - the summers are awful, and as much as you try you cannot teach an indian cook to make a decent shepherd`s pie ..........

sahib: except jinnah`s cook .......

mem sahib: who is jinnah ? .........

sahib (even more irritated) : i hate that man - he thinks he is better than us ........ give me a kiss....

mem sahib: but dear can we give this poor suffering man his independence .......... look !..... he can hardly breath and his ribs - oh my god ! - look at his ribs ! ....... i think he is dying ..........

sahib (exasperated): okay, okay !........... the idiot can have his independence - serves him right ! ........... now, can i have a kiss

mem sahib: oh virgil, you are so handsome and charming and wonderful ......... i love you

sahib (muttering) : and if i didn`t love you so much i would let that half-naked bugger die ........

I just don't understand - why was Gandhi not given Nobel Peace Prize ? if he was god !
We in Pakistan should start to respect Gandhi - ( with all the strings attached to him ) . It's wrong to argue for the sake of argueing for no reason and pasting responses which are egoistic and nothing more.
My request to HP, Manto and Cliftonbridge and tahmed is pls, kindly ignore this lott of bjkumar/majumdar/masadi - as with even a valid arguement / comment they fail to get light from it.

"On Ram Raja: I see Stuka seeing the dark vision Ram Raja presented by Kaal (i.e. caste suppression) as being the correct definition, while drlokraj/Folio seem to think it refers to good government."

Huh??? It's the opposite...the popular version of Ram Rajya is the latter, to which I and Kal agree upon. The former was simply Kaal's rather dark interpretation and I believe one done in sarcasm.


In addition to what Aleph Null summarizes about attitudes to Gandhi; I would simply add that I lack the intellectual bandwith to comprehend the man. We are all not born to the same IQ and I feel no shame in admitting that the man was either too evolved or too much of a lunatic for me to even begin to comprehend. My view of Gandhi is from the narrow prism of his impact on my community, a very narrow view that deserves no indulgence.

Ranjit bhai,

There have been a whole number of posts on UP lately on MAJ (pbuh) lately with Manto mian (and his supporters) claiming that he was a certified kanjaroooooooon while Atif (and his cohorts) claiming that he was a mujahidooooooooon.

Regards

#219 Posted by ANull

So this ahole is now reduced to writing a summary of what other commentators had to say about Gandhi.

One thing I must say that his one observation is right. This is a sub par article. I am told that Dr. Dalrymple now lives in India and writes for the Hindu regularly. Obviously, the land has some impact on the him. He now merely writes to make a few bucks here there on the cheap.

I am off to Montreal in couple of hours will take up this later.

#218 Posted by MantoLives on August 19, 2007 10:52:08 pm


That accusation is better levelled against Jawaharlal Nehru who stuck to power like a leach for 17 years and died in office.


Yeah...he's guilty of giving india a reasonable start to a democratic future and guilty of providing the impetus to the setting up of the IITs..

jinnah should be so lucky...

Re:Manto
Dude, why dont you submit a comprehensive article to chowk on Jinnah? I have seen more articles and discussions on Gandhi on chowk, while very few articles seem to focus on Jinnah. It would be a good learning experience for all Indians.

Another article on Gandhi - and a mediocre one at that.

To me, what is far more interesting than the article is the range of reactions to Gandhi the man and myth and to associated ideas like his notion of Ram Rajya. These can be viewed as responses to a sort of online Rorschach test: each respondent perhaps conveying more about his worldview - his loves and hates, his hopes and fears, his overpowering obsessions - than about the ostensible subject.

Thus Romair/bulleya sees in Gandhi the man who would have insisted on plebiscite in Kashmir and political devolution in ‘South Asia’ – never mind the absence of evidence for such a claim. Arjun is utterly indifferent to Gandhi and his peculiar notions but pleased at the soft power that he has given India and the grief he has caused Pakistanis down the years.

Kaalchakra, that sly, connniving brahmin, tries his devious and ironic best (aided by Folio and mohar) to convince naïve and trusting momins that Gandhi’s Ram Rajya actually means good governance rather than revival of a casteist Hindu fundamentalist theocracy where kshatriyas would once again rule, fanatic brahmins would actually operate the levers of power, lower castes would be put in their proper place, and Muslims (sufi or otherwise) and other mlecchas be relegated to untouchable status. But he cannot hope to deceive HP, that gifted online sleuth and googler extraordinaire.

Hamidm takes umbrage at the man’s sartorial style, homely looks and and futile asceticism. Aslam644 flaunts his achievement in publicizing Gandhi’s nocturnal experiments with nieces and other nubile women. Maulana echoboom seems to have forgotten that he claimed Gandhi for Islam not so long ago. Naqshbandi declares Gandhi a devious pervert and quack, a mushrik deluded by his ego into seeing himself as a high-ranked spiritual being, one of the forty false messiahs prophesied to appear before the End of Days.

Masadi sees Gandhi as a man who, whatever his personal quirks and eccentricities, popularized the notion that the masses of India must have a voice in their government and thus was responsible for whatever little democracy exists in that country today. Ras Siddiqui in his naivete calls Gandhi a well-intentioned man to whom even Muslims owe a great deal. Bjkumar continues his foolish adulation of Gandhi and inveterate hatred of the Jinnah.

Last but not least, for Mantolives, Gandhi is the epitome of evil, the witch doctor who politicized religion, the racist casteist Hindutva-fascist Hindu fundamentalist bigot and hypocritical fraud who tried to the very end to deprive Muslims lead by QA MA Jinnah of their due. His influence penetrates everywhere like a foul miasma. His spectre, alas, still haunts South Asia even after it was supposedly buried in the rubble of Jamia Hafsa.

PS: I just read Pardesi's post about George Washington walking away after victory against the British.

There was no United States of America in its present sense before 1789.

The articles of Confederation was basically a number of independent states with their governors as head of states.

And like Jinnah - who wanted to retire to his house in Bombay- it is true that Washington wanted to retire to his estate... but he did not.

He was not invited by the constituent assembly as Pardesi tries to spin it... George Washington was the Prime Mover of that constituent assembly. It was he who moved to and was the prime mover of the new constitution.

You may want to read his biography here:

http://www.whitehouse.gov/history/presidents/gw1.html

George Washington was no drama and comparing him to Gandhi -someone who was NEVER any serious contender for power nor would have gotten any since he was more of a symbol than anything else is an insult to the memory of George Washington.


Similarly Jinnah who died 13 months later can hardly be faulted for not giving up power. That accusation is better levelled against Jawaharlal Nehru who stuck to power like a leach for 17 years and died in office.

God save us from the Masadi-BJKumar alliance against reason and truth.

tahmed,

I am bit surprised by your insistence on George Washington not holding power after the US.

George Washington served two full terms as the first President of the United States. That is 8 years. Jinnah died in 13 months.