Independence Thinker

er Harish, you should settle this by showing us where manto abused you or your family members...when he "started it" as you claim. Otherwise you should just slug it out without trying to paw and claw at the moral high ground.
Instead of wasting time quoting irrevelant stuff about manto from other people, just show us the money quote.

Here is what people really think:

Post by shobig_sifar on Aug 24, 2007 1:31:33 am

give credit where it is due. I and Manto have had clashes of sorts and hardly ever had an agreement over anything, as is the case with him and Atif payee, but I can vouch he is not the sort of guy to imbue family members into his personal cyber-scuffles. Harish, on the other hand has been consistantly and appallingly abusing Aisha, despite his potential to have a clean and intellectual discourse.

Yaar... may God help you and help those you are quoting.

#353 Posted Yasser

You will keep hoping and praying and wishing that some how some anonymous nick will "expose" my "hypocrisy".

I don't have to pray. It is already happening. And the surprise is, your own compatriots are even more vitriolic than any Indian can ever be. Some of the threads exposing your utter hypocrisy left even me (who's quite familiar with your attention-seeking antics) shocked.

God save people who have the misfortune of being associated with a disgusting person like you.

And even god cannot save those unfortunate enough to be associated with a caricature such as you.

Harish mian,

You will keep hoping and praying and wishing that some how some anonymous nick will "expose" my "hypocrisy".

God save people who have the misfortune of being associated with a disgusting person like you.

#350 by Ranjit

For god's sake, you are two educated professionals with liberal values. Why does it have to descend to such virulent personal hatred and vitriol, especially attacking mothers and sisters?

Yaar Ranjit, I fully agree with you, but please check the 50-odd posts and see who started the whole mother thing. Yasser mian is frustrated because his attempts to pin me down have boomeranged on him, and so he probably thinks baiting me by abusing my mother will rile me up sufficiently to respond even more vulgarly than him, which could then be used as a case against me. All it has proved is Yasser mian's dubious credentials. Please also visit UP and check how other Chowkies are exposing his shameless hypocrisy.

Ranjit,

This is a very good question and should be addressed exclusively to this fellow Harish mian who really isn't worth my time given his disgusting habits.

This disgusting fellow with "liberal values" abused the hell out of my family because he doesn't find my views palatable. He says I abused him first but beyond trying to show him that such abuse indicates a deep seated insecurity and possibly a broken home ... I have not responded in kind.

Now he keeps saying I abused him but you can view the evidence in 326 and 301-305. If he feels I abused him or Aisha did... he should produce evidence. But he has none... so he is acting the only way he knows how to...

I wonder if some people are so devoid of humanity as to completely abuse others for having points of view contrary to each other. You and I have had many disagreements... how many time have we started abusing each other's mothers and wives?

Harish and Manto,

Guys, I dont mean to interrupt your mutual lovefest but this is really juvenile and disgusting, especially on a public forum. For god's sake, you are two educated professionals with liberal values. Why does it have to descend to such virulent personal hatred and vitriol, especially attacking mothers and sisters? Why cant you treat each other with at least some decorum? If you cannot behave rationally, why not ignore each other? If educated people cant have a decent conversation, what hope is there in the subcontinent?

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Know this

And in the future no this: just because you call your mother a bitch and a whore in love and affection doesn't mean every woman in the world is going to accept this kind of abuse.

Harish mian,

The said Ilog is still there and is in response to your ilogs. You can check the dates. You are abusive liar and you've been proved as one. Now keep going in circles.

Untill and unless you can produce our "abuse" against you, you don't have a point.

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You are right. I was merely trying to point out the hypocrisy in his reprimand to folio, when he himself is a 100 times more abusive without provocation.

In retrospect it was a collossal waste of time induling a fool like him.

Manto,

Why are you even arguing with this guy? If a dog barks, you don't bark back. Give him his due in life: Ignore him.

PS: For your sake, I sincerely hope you don't actually believe what you wrote in #340... because you ought to be locked up in some sort of an insane assylum.

Harish mian,

The burden of proving your assertion lies with you. I have already proved my assertion that you are an abusive person and you've admitted it. Now your assertion that you were provoked into doing it needs to be proved.

If you think this is an idiotic argument, you might want to consult "Indian Evidence Act" to see the procedure for yourself. According to you the entire Indian legal system is also idiotic.

#339 by Yasser

Yasser mian, squealing like a pig won't help. If you really had any evidence to prove that it was I who started the abuse, you would have produced it by now. Instead, first you claimed that it was I who started it in #271, then argued that since I accepted having abused you and the female Yasser, it was upto me to prove that I was provoked into doing it. Now what kind of an idiotic argument is that? You accused me of starting the whole thing, it is upto you to prove it.

harish mian,

You are beginning to sound like the biggest idiot on here.

You've accepted that you are abusive. Your abuse has been listed. Now you say you merely "responded in kind". Fair enough, it is now for you to prove that you responded in kind.

Therefore show us examples of this... and the best way to do this ... is to produce specific evidence of abuse by myself or Aisha.

#337 by Yasser

Apparently your countless ilogs with the flamboyant use of the word "bitch" and "whore" completely unprovoked is NOT evidence enough.

You do know who I used those words for, don't you? Looks like your frustration at having been caught with your pants at ankle-level has left you close to nervous breakdown. The references to red light areas means not just that it is your place of birth and residence, but could also be the place of the family trade, so why should you be upset at such words? In fact you should be pretty comfortable with them, shouldn't you?

Now it is up to you to prove that you were merely responding to provocation.

Not a single post of yours proves that it was I who started it all. All you've been CP'ing are my old ilogs with abuse, which I didn't even deny. But your claim that you were forced to abuse after I started it, still needs to be proved. Here's what you said in #273:

"You know full well that we've never abused you and any indirect insinuations I made to your family were after your hurled abuses at Aisha."

In the absence of such proof, I'm forced to conclude that in addition to the other questionable things you indulge in, you're also an inveterate liar and need some serious therapy.

Harish mian writes:

"having to grope for evidence to prove your claim"

Apparently your countless ilogs with the flamboyant use of the word "bitch" and "whore" completely unprovoked is NOT evidence enough. I suppose this how you address your mother at home in which case you must be informed that these are indeed derogatory words...

Mian... the evidence I have produced is damning. See post 326 again. Now it is up to you to prove that you were merely responding to provocation. The burden of proof lies with you.

The very fact that you can't produce a single post from us with the kind of abuse that you have resorted to is itself damning evidence of your culpability.

Harish mian,

Your language and my language is there for everyone to see.

As for "started the cycle of abuse"... the question would come up if I or Aisha had similarly abused you. We haven't and despite your tall claims, the only evidence we have is of your abuse.

You kept abusing us for expressing our point of view. Infact you declared that the reason you act the way you do is to shut us up.

Good luck.

Harish mian,

Your language and my language is there for everyone to see.

As for "started the cycle of abuse"... the question would come up if I or Aisha had similarly abused you. We haven't and despite your tall claims, the only evidence we have is of your abuse.

You kept abusing us for expressing our point of view. Infact you declared that the reason you act the way you do is to shut us up.

Good luck.

#332 by Yasser

The kind of unprovoked and unrestrained abuse that you are capable of, makes me wonder if you were brought up in the red light district.

And the kind of uncouth language that you have used on this very board makes me wonder if you were born and still live there.

We could have buried the hatchet.

Oh how very magnanimous!!! Thanks, but no thanks.

But you are so devoid of humanity and a sense of integrity that you have chosen to make this into another useless sparring match, despite having all the evidence in your face.

If the fact that 50 posts later, having to grope for evidence to prove your claim that I started the cycle of abuse represents a victory, then I'm happy to be the loser. Go ahead and celebrate it.

"Frustrated are we"

Yes. Frustrated as to how people like you can be so utterly and completely dishonest.

Harish mian,

Because I am honest man I admitted "indirect insinuations in response to your abuse" and here is another indirect insinuation. The kind of unprovoked and unrestrained abuse that you are capable of, makes me wonder if you were brought up in the red light district.


All you had to do was apologise for your abuse... and had you shown me where I had similarly abused you I would have apologised as well for such a slight- though good luck finding any. We could have buried the hatchet. But you are so devoid of humanity and a sense of integrity that you have chosen to make this into another useless sparring match, despite having all the evidence in your face. To me this represents the true of face of Gandhiism and its followers.

Rest assure nothing I can write can match the abuse you are capable of.


-YLH

#329 by Yasser

It turns out that not only are you butt ugly, blind and abusive, but God hasn't given you much of the grey matter either.

Hahahaha! Frustrated, are we? The fact that you slip down further and further on the abuse scale proves that your arguments are getting nowhere.

There is no question of that when only you have been resorting to such abuse.

Yasser, once again you leave me with no option but to catch you with your pants down in full public view. Here's what you wrote in #273 on this very board: "You know full well that we've never abused you and any indirect insinuations I made to your family were after your hurled abuses at Aisha." and it is an altogether different matter that you and the female Yasser abused me in your ilogs, but since you cleverly deleted them out, we'll leave it at that. But you still don't seem to have any evidence that it was I who started it off.

"All I'm asking you to do is to proof of your claim that it was I who started the whole thing."

It turns out that not only are you butt ugly, blind and abusive, but God hasn't given you much of the grey matter either. Started what first? There is no question of that when only you have been resorting to such abuse.

The question of who did it first would emerge if either Aisha or I ever brought ourselves down to your pathetic level.

"All I'm asking you to do is to proof of your claim that it was I who started the whole thing."

It turns out that not only are you butt ugly, blind and abusive, but God hasn't given you much of the grey matter either. Started what first? There is no question of that when only you have been resorting to such abuse.

The question of who did it first would emerge if either Aisha or I ever brought ourselves down to your pathetic level.

PS: Just posting them in italics doesn't make it new...just as packing stale food in a brand new silver foil doesn't make it any fresh..LOL!

#326 by Yasser

The only evidence we are looking for is your claim Aisha or I abused/provoked you... which sadly you haven't been able to produce.

Aww Yasser mian, must you produce everything that you and the missus stand for? All I'm asking you to do is to proof of your claim that it was I who started the whole thing.

Clearly, the fact that you must have to post these ilogs again and again shows that you have nothing new. Can't help it, can we?

Dear Harish mian,

Did you read posts 300-305 which quote your ilogs? Are you blind as well?

Here are some more of your ilogs...where you show us what your mother taught you:


Deluded B!tch by harish_hyd Oct 27, 2006 05:43 am Views: 7
Please leave Yasser alone by harish_hyd Sep 29, 2006 12:19 am Views: 4
Enjoy this, b!tch!! It could be YOU by harish_hyd Sep 20, 2006 05:41 am Views: 4
Frustrated and Unemployed in Lahore by harish_hyd Sep 15, 2006 04:28 am Views: 4
Caste-free Pakistan by harish_hyd Sep 15, 2006 04:00 am Views: 4
No Title by harish_hyd Sep 15, 2006 03:55 am Views: 4
Tag Team In Action by harish_hyd Sep 15, 2006 03:00 am Views: 1
B!tch starts bitching by harish_hyd Sep 15, 2006 02:43 am Views: 1

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#307 Posted by harish_hyd on August 22, 2007 10:39:51 pm
Hahahaha!!! Yasser getting desperate. You can go on posting my ilogs just because unlike you, I do not delete the offensive ones. But does it in any way prove that you do not belong to the Hamdani family? I doubt...LOL!
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#306 Posted by harish_hyd on August 22, 2007 10:37:32 pm
#301 Posted by Yasser

Do you want more of what your mother taught you?

Yasser mian, and if your mother had taught you any common sense, along with decency and honesty, you would understand that my ilog in in response to one by the female Yasser. Any outsider who's reading this ilog can clearly notice that. And unlike you both, I do not delete my ilogs to hide proof of such foul and vulgar language that seems quite common in the Hamdani family. Once again, you've only proved my point that my posts/ilogs have always been in response to provocation from you and the female Yasser.
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#305 Posted by MantoLives on August 22, 2007 10:36:35 pm
Here you are back to showing us what kind of family you are from:

http://www.chowk.com/ilogs/54115/31575

Knight jumps to the rescue of damsel in distressPosted: Oct 29, 2006 Sun 10:36 pm Views: 1
If anyone is more likely to have been abused, it is Yasser’s mother..and we all know why. Perhaps also the reason why an Arab name was given to a Paki Muslim...oops Ahmadi...er Sunni....er Ismaili...phew!!!!


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#304 Posted by MantoLives on August 22, 2007 10:35:16 pm
Here you are thinking every woman in the world is like your mother:

http://www.chowk.com/ilogs/54344/31575

Feeling better now, b!tch?Posted: Nov 7, 2006 Tue 03:45 am Views: 2
When there is no good news to share about your country, what else can you do to make it look good? When the US audaciously bombs your country anytime it wants to without bothering to so much as apologize, you need something to reassure you that you indeed belong to a sovereign country and not some banana republic that lives on the crumbs thrown at it by its master

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#303 Posted by MantoLives on August 22, 2007 10:32:48 pm
And here you are protesting that you look like your father instead of your mother:

http://www.chowk.com/ilogs/56323/31575

At least I don’t look like a whore. That is what I would call audacity.

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#302 Posted by MantoLives on August 22, 2007 10:29:05 pm
Here is another... where you assume that everyone in the world follows the Gurumoorthy success ethic:

http://www.chowk.com/ilogs/56318/31575

Insecurity is when a Madarssah-educated nouveau-riche son is proud of his father’s supposed achievements, boasting to all and sundry (funny when this is such an anonmymous forum where no claim can be verified) that his dad drives a better car than Azim Premji, whose net worth would be enough to purchase every woman in this chutiya’s family a million times over.

The only evidence we are looking for is your claim Aisha or I abused/provoked you... which sadly you haven't been able to produce.

-YLH

#321 by Yasser

What? Still no evidence? Yet another post goes wasted. Like I said before, all it proves Yasser mian is that you have been caught with your pants down and are now desperately looking for some cover. But coming from such an illustrious lineage, you shouldn't be ashamed at all, no?

Masadi mian,

We went through the discussion in detail and you failed to answer my points. So there is no point really in going in circles.

In my view, you are as disgusting and distasteful a liar as Mr. harish hyd of India... and utterly incapable of civilised academic dialogue based on facts.

Manto writes "Masadi mian,

An Indian poll recently conducted polls in Pakistan and India. One poll was about the founding fathers:

Jinnah's approval ratings in Pakistan 97% in India 43 %"

One things third rate lawyers should never do is throw out polls to social scientists as "proof". What kind of nonsense is this "approval rating"- approving of what? Of course they are going to approve just like the poll that Zia ul Haq conducted asking Pakistani's if they "wanted Islam"- what were they going to say? That the Church of MAJ has taboo attached with rejection is why you get these high poll numbers, dig a little deeper with REAL questions and you'll get to know just how deep the resentment is with lackeys of the West...

"PS: And I don't need to prove to anyone about how I was provoked. I know it, you know it, and the female Yasser knows it. That's all that matters. "

Yes we do. You got "provoked" because Aisha expressed her point of view about India. How dare she!!! How dare she provoke you by saying India has abject poverty. She deserved worse abuse than that... that woman!

Dear Harish mian,

You did not respond in kind. You being from where you are not used to women expressing their point of view. Hence you resorted to abuse.

Lets get something straight. My objection was to your hypocrisy in your post addressed to folio. You are the last person who ought to be giving moralistic lectures to anyone.

Otherwise your abuse doesn't bother us. I take it as evidence of your family background and dubious lineage.

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#318 by Yasser

The fact that you've not produced a single piece of "abuse" from us proves that you started it.

Hahahaha! So why do you think I would dig out your posts? You started the whole discussion about how I abused the female Yasser in #268. I did not go around to people crying that I was abused. It was you who said in this post:

"... ironic to see Harish mian, who has been hurling similar and worst abuses at Aisha Sarwari for expressing her point of view"

and then in #273:

"You know full well that we've never abused you and any indirect insinuations I made to your family were after your hurled abuses at Aisha."

I already said I RESPONDED IN KIND. Now show us proof that I started it? Come on, don't waste my time with your moronic (non)arguments.

Dear Harish mian,

If you were "retaliating", where is the evidence that something provoked you? Did Aisha or I ever call your mother or any other woman a "bitch" or a "whore" or a "slut" or anything of the sort?

The fact that you've not produced a single piece of "abuse" from us proves that you started it. Aisha's ilogs as well as posts and my ilogs and my posts are there to which you responded.

You know we did not start it. We did not even respond in kind. Yet instead of apologising for being abusive, you are going in circles, making adhominem accusations without any real basis.

My contention that you are a bloody hypocrite stands PROVED.

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Harish mian,

You are a joke. I've produced atleast 10 ilogs where you are showing us your family background and you've produced not even a single ilog/blog with any abuse from us.

All you could come up was some blog about misquoting Gandhi which I've shown is from an Indian book published by JNU Press. I stand by the quote because it is not some anonymous blog but an actual published piece of work by an Indian publisher.

So it is proved that you are one of the most abusive people on this website who can't take a counter argument without resorting to vilest abuse.

Now it was upto you to produce a single piece of evidence against us... ilog, post, blog etc and we've not deleted anything as God is our witness... you've failed miserably.

What I don't understand is why you are so insistent on lying. You know... God knows.. I know ... that what I am saying is true. Why not prove to me that you are a human being by admitting that you made a mistake and that you are sorry.

#314 by Yasser

Please tell me where in this ilog are we abusing you?

Yaar Yasser, that was a blog, not ilog. Sorry for the confusion. But in that post, where did I claim that you were abusing me? All I'm saying is that you have abused facts (which BTW is nothing new), and whoever wrote that blog has duly recorded it. And after that, if you still feel others see you as honest (and bringing in God as witness, as if he's gonna come down and testify for you), you're only deluding yourself.

But really, you're flogging a dead horse. I don't know what it is that you are out to prove. If you're bent on proving that I abused you and the missus, I already said that I have and it was in retaliation to abuse from you. If there is anything left to be proved, it is that I started it. Sadly, you've miserably failed to do that after almost 50 inane posts. So until you come up with something concrete to prove that I started it, I will respond at my own sweet will and time. I'm not going to match you word for word in idiocy, because no one can match you when it comes to it. But your dishonesty is starkly exposed and your "reputation" for spinning facts has spread far beyond the small confines of Chowk. Have a nice one!

Harish mian,

Please tell me where in this ilog are we abusing you?

The quote I got was from Dr. Ajeet Javed's book and was a different one but that is a different issue. 'I am a Hindu first and hence a true Indian' (Secular and Nationalist Jinnah by Ajeet Javed Singh Page 187, Jawaharlal Nehru University Press)

But how does it give you the right to abuse other people and their families?

#312 by Yasser

As god is my witness, we didn't delete or change anything. You can go look at it. You got banned.

Here's the ilog I found about you and the female Yasser:

-------------------------

http://arunsmusings.blogspot.com/ 2006/01/on-quote-from-gandhi.html

On a quote from Gandhi

The Pakistani duo of Aisha Fayyazi Sarwari and Yasser Latif Hamdani are of the apparent opinion that sufficient repetition can turn anything into fact. An instance is the quote they attribute to Mahatma Gandhi:

'I am a Hindu first and hence a true Indian'

More accurately, the quote is

"There is undoubtedly a sense in which the statement is true when I say that I hold my religion dearer than my country and that, therefore, I am a Hindu first and nationalist after. I do not become on that score a less nationalist than the best of them. I simply thereby imply that the interests of my country are identical with those of my religion."

What is the nature of his religion and his nationalism?

I can neither serve God nor humanity if as an Indian I do not serve India, and as a Hindu I do not serve the Indian Mussalmans.

To understand the crusade against Mahatma Gandhi, one has to understand that he is a bulwark of modern Indian secular democracy. Those who would destroy it must diminish Gandhi. This is as true of the rabid Hindu rightwingers in India as it is of Pakistanis.
----------------------------

After this, do you expect anyone to take your word honestly? "God is my witness".....LOL!!!!!!

Dear Harish mian,

As god is my witness, we didn't delete or change anything. You can go look at it. You got banned.

You are basically devoid of humanity. You abused Aisha because she dared to express her point of view. How dare she ... that woman. I've proved with evidence what kind of disgusting and filthy background you hail from.

May God help those who have the misfortune being associated with a disgusting freak like you.

#309 by Yasser

Yasser mian, if I were a liar, I would have deleted my ilogs to cover my tracks, like you have done. But no, I stand by everything I said, and I believe in responding in kind. Too bad you love to dish it out but can't take it. Tough luck!

#303 by Yasser

And here you are protesting that you look like your father instead of your mother:

No Yasser mian, in fact I was being compared to something else instead of you-know-who, and I was feeling better about it, which is what I expressed. But you wouldn't know now because you thought you were being smart by deleting your khandaani ilogs.

Harish mian,

The only reason you felt so much liberty in abusing us was because we did not respond in kind. We don't believe in abusing women...

Had you even an iota of shame you would have accepted and apologised the liar you are.

Harish mian,

Aisha's ilogs are there. May God if there is one strike down the liar here.

Why don't you produce some evidence of where she or I abused you? You are the most disgusting person I have come across... a true Gandhian and a true liar indeed.

Here are some more of your ilogs...


Deluded B!tch by harish_hyd Oct 27, 2006 05:43 am Views: 7
Please leave Yasser alone by harish_hyd Sep 29, 2006 12:19 am Views: 4
Enjoy this, b!tch!! It could be YOU by harish_hyd Sep 20, 2006 05:41 am Views: 4
Frustrated and Unemployed in Lahore by harish_hyd Sep 15, 2006 04:28 am Views: 4
Caste-free Pakistan by harish_hyd Sep 15, 2006 04:00 am Views: 4
No Title by harish_hyd Sep 15, 2006 03:55 am Views: 4
Tag Team In Action by harish_hyd Sep 15, 2006 03:00 am Views: 1
B!tch starts bitching by harish_hyd Sep 15, 2006 02:43 am Views: 1

Hahahaha!!! Yasser getting desperate. You can go on posting my ilogs just because unlike you, I do not delete the offensive ones. But does it in any way prove that you do not belong to the Hamdani family? I doubt...LOL!

#301 Posted by Yasser

Do you want more of what your mother taught you?

Yasser mian, and if your mother had taught you any common sense, along with decency and honesty, you would understand that my ilog in in response to one by the female Yasser. Any outsider who's reading this ilog can clearly notice that. And unlike you both, I do not delete my ilogs to hide proof of such foul and vulgar language that seems quite common in the Hamdani family. Once again, you've only proved my point that my posts/ilogs have always been in response to provocation from you and the female Yasser.

Here you are back to showing us what kind of family you are from:

http://www.chowk.com/ilogs/54115/31575

Knight jumps to the rescue of damsel in distressPosted: Oct 29, 2006 Sun 10:36 pm Views: 1
If anyone is more likely to have been abused, it is Yasser’s mother..and we all know why. Perhaps also the reason why an Arab name was given to a Paki Muslim...oops Ahmadi...er Sunni....er Ismaili...phew!!!!

Here you are thinking every woman in the world is like your mother:

http://www.chowk.com/ilogs/54344/31575

Feeling better now, b!tch?Posted: Nov 7, 2006 Tue 03:45 am Views: 2
When there is no good news to share about your country, what else can you do to make it look good? When the US audaciously bombs your country anytime it wants to without bothering to so much as apologize, you need something to reassure you that you indeed belong to a sovereign country and not some banana republic that lives on the crumbs thrown at it by its master

And here you are protesting that you look like your father instead of your mother:

http://www.chowk.com/ilogs/56323/31575

At least I don’t look like a whore. That is what I would call audacity.



....

Given that Amansandhu could not produce her evidence... I hope you will produce something to prove me wrong.

Here is another... where you assume that everyone in the world follows the Gurumoorthy success ethic:

http://www.chowk.com/ilogs/56318/31575

Insecurity is when a Madarssah-educated nouveau-riche son is proud of his father’s supposed achievements, boasting to all and sundry (funny when this is such an anonmymous forum where no claim can be verified) that his dad drives a better car than Azim Premji, whose net worth would be enough to purchase every woman in this chutiya’s family a million times over.

http://www.chowk.com/ilogs/54350/31575

No Yasser, I was only comparing the "strong Paki b!tch...er..woman" to your mother, and boy, do they compare well! In fact, it is hard to tell one from the other.

...

Do you want more of what your mother taught you?

Harish mian,

That is your stock answer. I am just amazed at your shamelessness. Did you not use words like "whore" and "bitch"? I don't know about the Gurumoorthy house hold, but everywhere else these are considered derogatory, sexist and outright offensive.

If you could show a similar attack on you or your family by Aisha or myself, you would have a point.

#298 by Yasser

That was really lame.

Sure..when everything else fails, this is the stock answer you're left with. BTW, I found an interesting blog which exposes your "honesty". Wanna take a look?

Yaar Harish mian,

That was really lame.

Masadi mian,

An Indian poll recently conducted polls in Pakistan and India. One poll was about the founding fathers:

Jinnah's approval ratings in Pakistan 97% in India 43 %

Gandhi's approval ratings in Pakistan 29% in India 85%

So your wishes are not going to come true.

Your failure to argue with facts and to repeat the illogic of the Mullah freaks who called Jinnah kafir-e-Azam in the 1940s shows your desperation.

So keep repeating your lies. Pakistanis are done believing liars like you who are their biggest enemies. And I speak for the common man... not you.

#292 by Yasser

Don't tell me that you are the genius who is advising Nawaz Sharif to deny the undertaking and agreement that he signed and which was presented before Supreme Court today.

Nope, how would I do that? Neither am I a Paki nor am I a lawyer, both of which you however are. So it must be you who brilliantly advised him.

You and your missus deserve every bit of abuse I've hurled ... and then the counter-accusation ... because I've only responded in kind.

It is quite clear that your simplistic "I only responded in kind" is no where to be found in 271.

Yasser mian, you must be blind as a bat to deny what is written right in front of you. In this department, you even beat Nawaz Sharif hands down.

Manto writes on another board "Is this guy Masadi for real?"

Yes, I am for real and I am the worst nightmare of a-holes of the West that want to perpetuate the same old MAJ BS in this country to take it further down even deeper into the gutter than it is in right now. What I do know for sure is that the fate of the Indian Muslim was a direct consequence of the majority collectively punishing a minority because of the greed of one man, the MAJ BS, a reaction to obtaining a non-viable country that was to become a whore of the West, thus causing debilitating suffering to the Muslims of this region both inside and outside India.

Today, I had to get some papers Xeroxed, so I went to a corner shop. This guy walks in and asks the shopkeeper, "When is Shab e Miraaj?" The shopkeeper says, "People of an enslaved nation do not partake in these things, I am worried about load shedding and you are asking me this question. People who are enslaved cannot have a religious identity." Then he turned to me and said, "kyun saab jee, theek baat hey?"

I said "bilkul theek" and I am happy that the people of this nation are finally waking up. Then they guy who asked the "Miraaj" question asked the shopkeeper, “Then why did Quaid e Azam make Pakistan", and the shop keeper says, "Quaid e Azam ney jhak maree thee". I laughed as I left the shop on whose wall was the "jhak man's" photograph and said, " Soon the people of this nation will rise up against the BS of both the Quaid and the Mullah variety, enough is enough, the time of our liberation is nigh, one that involves social justice for all". No lackeys of the West like the MAJ will be tolerated, new currency will be printed. Enough of the same old BS. The High Priest of the Church of MAJ and all its franchises and whore houses will be shut down. Then will the humanity in Pakistan rejoice......Inshallah

Gandhi was an influence on Bhagat Singh but Bhagat Singh became unhappy after he called off a campaign after Chauri Chora violence. Bhagat Singh and his compatriots became centre of attention of Indian youth of their time when Jatin Das died as a result of complications arising out of forced feeding to hunger strikers.

After Jallianwallah Bagh Massacre days of British in India were numbered. But after Gandhi if anyone could be credited with winning India freedom it was Bhagat Singh.

Serious historiography is difficult. It is difficult to fully account for "worth" of any one person or group when we try to assess contribution made by them to independence. But after Das's death and transportation of his body by rail many Indian youths were roused to take part in independence struggle.

Subhash Bose may have never tried to tap animocity of Japan and Germany if those external factors did not exist. But Bhagat Singh would have become revolutionary regardless of whether there was communist revolution or whether there was a Gandhi and whether Gandhi was pacifist or not.

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Harish mian,

Don't tell me that you are the genius who is advising Nawaz Sharif to deny the undertaking and agreement that he signed and which was presented before Supreme Court today.

This is what you wrote in 271:

You and your missus deserve every bit of abuse I've hurled ... and then the counter-accusation ... because I've only responded in kind.

It is quite clear that your simplistic "I only responded in kind" is no where to be found in 271.

#290 by Yasser

You are being clever by half. That you hurled abuses is there by your own admission.

Here's what you wrote in #273: "You know full well that we've never abused you and any indirect insinuations I made to your family were after your hurled abuses at Aisha."

Yasser: You abused me and female Yasser.
Harish: I only responded in kind.
Yasser: Prove that we abused you first.

What kind of logic is that? Aray bhai, first you accuse that I abused you both, to which I say that I only responded in kind. Then you ask me to prove:

1. how I started it all?
2. how you are innocent?

Which one is it? It is rather strange that the one who accuses me of abusing him and his missus wants me to prove my innocence. Make up your mind and fast. I wouldn't want to engage in this discussion forever with someone who doesn't even know what he wants. If it weren't so pathetic, I'd die of laughter.

Dear Harish,

You are being clever by half. That you hurled abuses is there by your own admission. Had you not abused Aisha or myself, you would have said: "I have not abused you or Aisha".

Therefore your 271 amounts to admission and you know it is true. Your "in kind" statement doesn't make sense since Aisha has never abused you ever nor have I in the first instance.

So we know the following:

1. You have admitted to abusing Aisha and myself.

2. You have claimed that you abused us only in response to our abuse towards you.

3. You have not produced any evidence for 2.

#288 by Yasser

Therefore you need to prove your accusation since my "accusation" stands proved by your own admission/confession.

Yaar Yasser, I said #271 that I responded in kind to what you said. If you feel you and the female Yasser haven't abused me in any way, then what does "in kind" mean? Let me make this simpler for your mediocre brain: if X praised Y and Y responded in kind, it only means that Y praised X as well. OTOH, if X abused Y and Y responded in kind, it means Y abused X in response.

So the fact that you're squealing like a pig with its head cut off is because you know that you both abused me and were being crybabies when I responded in kind. If OTOH, you feel you haven't done anything to deserve the abuse, you have nothing to worry about. But all the kicking and screaming points to only one thing: you got more than you bargained for.

Yaar Harish mian,

Are you having problems comprehending what is being said?
My accusation that you have resorted to worst kind of abuse is proved by your words:

You and your missus deserve every bit of abuse I've hurled, because I've only responded in kind.

The claim that you've resorted to abuse was not DISPUTED by you. You came up with excuse that it was Aisha who started it. Therefore you need to prove your accusation since my "accusation" stands proved by your own admission/confession.

Now please see that the burden of proof lies with you. You may seek legal opinion from your finest "solicitor" friend on this.

-YLH

PS: the fact that you have to drag my family into this whole thing once again proves that you (and the female Yasser) deserved every bit of abuse I've hurled at you.

#285 by Yasser

Therefore the burden of proof is on you to show where Aisha abused you or your family to earn the abuse to which you responded in kind. Unless you produce this - my assertion remains unchallenged since the only admitted truth here is that you've resorted to abuse.

Abay Yasser, even an illiterate Abdul would tell you that since it is you who made the accusation, it is YOU who must prove it. Nowhere in the world is the accused asked to provide proof of his/her innocence. The onus of proving the accused's guilt solely lies on the accuser. Such shocking ignorance, coming as it does from someone "working for one of Pakistan's top law firms" is to say the least, astounding.

Dear Harish mian,

The problem with people like you is circular logic or lack thereof.

What am I supposed to prove? It is you who were supposed t prove that we abused you or your family.

The fact that you abused Aisha again and again on your ilogs and other places is NOT even disputed. You've admitted it and you were banned from this website for abusing people.

You wrote: You and your missus deserve every bit of abuse I've hurled, because I've only responded in kind.

Therefore the burden of proof is on you to show where Aisha abused you or your family to earn the abuse to which you responded in kind. Unless you produce this - my assertion remains unchallenged since the only admitted truth here is that you've resorted to abuse.

The truth is that you know as well as I do that neither Aisha nor I ever abused you and the only reason you resorted to showing us your family background was because you were frustrated - as usual - and had no counter-arguments to Aisha's ilogs about India (which did not mention you by the way).

Repetitively claiming that you abused us only because we abused you first without providing evidence for it is a rather shameless way of arguing.
-YLH


PS: Amansandhu promised three hours ago that she was looking it up and will show it. She has failed to produce evidence and she has failed to atleast apologise for her lie.

Yaar Yasser, on this very board, your propensity to resort to abuse at the drop of a hat is there for everyone to see. And instead of going on and on squealing like a pig, why don't you just prove that it was I who started the abuse? The fact that 10 posts later, you have absolutely nothing to prove your claim is rather revealing in itself, isn't it?

Apparently, your mother didn't see it fit to teach you basic honesty. Or is that a trait totally missing from your family?

PS: Aman, you don't have to stoop down to Yasser's level. All you have to do is call him by his first name, his parents ensured that every time you do that, you've responded in kind :-)

aman,

I hope you will have enough integrity to admit that you were wrong in claiming that if at all you don't find it.

Re: # 279

Sadly Harish mian that is not true. I did not complain to Chowk staff.

You were banned because instead of countering Aisha's ilogs about Indian poverty with logic, you started hurling abuses and showing off your family background.

You are such a liar. You admitted to abusing us in 271 giving the excuse that we deserved it. Then when you couldn't come up with any concrete reason for why we deserve it, you are asking me to give you proof. Shame. Check your ilogs... you will find ample evidence, if you haven't removed it already.

-YLH

YLH

PS: Your addition of the word "fuck" to what I actually called you shows that even you don't think dumbass qualifies as an excuse.

Ok, Manto I am looking it up, you will see it soon.

Re: # 275

Dumbassandhu,

The only person on a high horse here is Harish mian. No amount of abuse on his part can stop Aisha or myself from expressing our point of view.. all it does is prove a point about Harish mian's family background.

My issue was with Harish mian's self righteousness, hypocrisy and double standards. It was he was sermonizing Folio (and someone ought to have but not Harish mian who is as bad if not worse than Folio).

If we were to take that (dumb) as a standard of abuse, poor Harish mian would be banned from this website. However... my comment was with regard to specific abuses, in front of which even Folio's abuses against Hamidm are merely child's play.

And while you and I call each other names all the time, all Aisha was doing was posting news items about India... the same way arjun-m does. But because Arjun-m is a man, he cannot be targetted for his gender.. but Harish mian chose to target Aisha, presumably because his mother failed to instill any respect for women in him.

-YLH

PS: Your addition of the word "fuck" to what I actually called you shows that even you don't think dumbass qualifies as an excuse.

#274 by Yasser

Harish mian, for its worth, was duly banned from Chowk for several days on several occasions for indulging in such abuse.

And the only reason you weren't is because you lick Chowk staff's boots, of which there is ample evidence. Or you would have to be banned every couple of days.

And sure, we all know your family background, please don't get me started with that.

#273 Posted by MantoLives

You are a shameless human being. You know full well that we've never abused you and any indirect insinuations I made to your family were after your hurled abuses at Aisha.

Yasser mian, you accused me of abusing you and the missus. Stop squealing like a pig with its head cut off and show proof. Otherwise, it only proves my earlier contention, and that too on this very board, that it is you guys who started the abuse and you fully deserve any retaliation from my side.

I am free this afternoon, I will look it up, its about time Manto came down from his high horse

What you wrote Manto, is here,on chowk, in print, In the meanwhile start looking for excuses

Manto, I will look it up, and oh by the way isny calling me dumb abuse. Talk about double standards

dumbassandhu,

I called you a dumbass, because you are. I did not use the word "fuck". That is a lie.

Harish mian has called me such things for a long time and I don't even consider such banter abuse. It is the vilest abuse that only someone with a questionable family background can throw up that I have objected to.

Harish mian, for its worth, was duly banned from Chowk for several days on several occasions for indulging in such abuse.

Harish Mian,

You are a shameless human being. You know full well that we've never abused you and any indirect insinuations I made to your family were after your hurled abuses at Aisha.

The reason you resort to the vilest abuses against Aisha was only because of what she wrote against India. She had not abused you or your family or anyone else. So your comment is a lie and may God help people like you who are such blatant liars.

Manto, you have hurled abuses at me expressing my point of view, calling me a dumbass fuck.

#268 by MantoLives

... ironic to see Harish mian, who has been hurling similar and worst abuses at Aisha Sarwari for expressing her point of view.

What part of "You don't hit back in the same coin until someone has provoked you by insulting/abusing you or your family members personally." did you have trouble comprehending? You and your missus deserve every bit of abuse I've hurled, because I've only responded in kind.

laddu, no gate-crashing. We are having our own party, open to all. The only requirement is you must love partying.

Those who come because they are called will be strictly prohibited from entering.

Re: # 266

Hey,

But how are you going to get past the idolator beheader and intercessor who would ensure that you do not get the ticket to Allah's rave party.

While what folio did was abhorrent... ironic to see Harish mian, who has been hurling similar and worst abuses at Aisha Sarwari for expressing her point of view.

Something ought to be said about double standards.

Re:GT #239,"... it is best for institutions to be a-religious"

GT, there is no such animal.

masadi

It's possible the middle classes brought a democratic mindset in Europe, but in India, at best they provided democratic leadership, refining, defining collective visions and aspirations (not a mean factor by any stretch; but they worked on existing material, did not furnish the material itself).

One may even argue, on a hunch, that in the economically/socially harsh conditions that India faced, middle classes would choose undemocratic/particularistic solutions. I have seen that happen, personally. Anecdotal evidence, but there may be something to it.

---------------------

harish, folio

Good job, guy :)

We horrible Hindoos enjoy hamdim's presence, even learn from him. On judgement day, we will plead on his behalf, that he be permitted to enter the good places, along with us. :)

Re: Aslam and others

Those who are suggesting that the "Middle class" is somehow responsible for setting up the foundation of democracy in India are talking BS, without popular support the Middle Class is always coopted since they are employed by the vested interests who contour not only their personalities but vest them into maintaining the status quo, not to mention that the Middle Class wasn't of much significance in independence era India as a bullwark against colonization...

#263 by Folio

Yaar if there is anyone you need to apologize to, it is hamidm2 mian. You don't hit back in the same coin until someone has provoked you by insulting/abusing you or your family members personally. That's all I'm saying.

Sorry Harish, That's all based on his previous accounts of his family history, which he bragged abt as a matter of pride. I just added zing to it to make it even for his piece on Gandhi.

Btw, Do I have an option to delete a post?

If so, Chowk Staff pl do DELETE the post 'Everybody Likes Hamid2'.

#230 by Folio

Yaar Folio, that was in bad taste and without provocation. Hamidm is irreverent of everything emanating from South Asia, but that does not mean you get personal with him.

#253 dont worry yar..there was a civil war after the prophet died..but later the kaliphas created a great islami empire..alls we got to do is wait for that kalipha after this temperory civil war phase is over and then everything will be just fine.

IB #254 One can always point to something that someone didnt do, or some fault in someone. That does not change the fact that the Chief Justice has stood up for the basic rights and freedoms of the people of Pakistan that Musharraf and his agents were only too happy to try to take away from them.

And the vast majority of the people of Pakistan understand that. Even if you chose not to.

GT: You seriously underestimate Abdul. He is as smart as you or me or anyone else. As proof of this: I remember reading a column in the Washington Post where the columnist predicted that the Chief Justice would not find much popular support given that issues like habeas corpus and the right to vote were beyong the understanding of the average person in a poor country. Events proved that columnist wrong.
Conversely, Musharraf's lie that he could not act against maulvis of lal masjid when they were intimidating shopkeepers and others in Islamabad was proved when in fact people heaved a sigh of relief when he finally cracked down on the maulvis. Two days after lal masjid, there was a large public gathering - as part of the democracy movement, with lal masjid remembered only by maulvis.

Same in India - BJP made a big deal about "India Shining" and BJP leaders like Advani tried to play on hindu nationalism. And ended up losing elections, because the indian abduls too saw through this crap.

So, have more respect for the poor people of South Asia. And just be glad that you and I are more fortunate than them - but God gave them a brain like he gave you and me as well. Never forget that.

Re: # 253 Why Jinnah archives are still not opened ? any reason. hope soon made open as with time paper slowly disintegrates. May be under some scholars international group should compile and and gop should subsidise so even poor people can study selected works of Jinnah and gone by era.

Tahmed sahib:

You ask:

"So, why not call a spade a spade in politics, and call good governance as "good governance" rather than as "ram raj" or "islamic state"?"

I would gladly follow your prescription. But there is a slight problem. Suppose I am fighting an election and I am telling abdul that I will implement "good governance". He asks me "what is good governance". I tell him "well it means secularism, balanced budget, free trade etc. etc.". He is not very convinced. Instead I say "good governance induces ram rajya". Now you got the sucker and his vote (or even his laathi) :)

Point is you simply cannot leave religion out in South Asia today. Maybe, in some distant future.

I do not understand why these guys are struck up in Gandhi and Jinnah.

Too much of obsession with political leaders and "Prophets" makes a dis passionate evaluation of their contributions at a hind sight difficult. That makes us susceptible to making the same mistakes in the history agan and again.

Pakistan needs to kick out all the references ot "Islam" or the so called "Islamic principles" from its constitution if it is to turn into a modern democracy - otherwise they would keep on repeating the nonsense that has been carrying on since the last 60 years.

At a hind sight Jinnah's ghost also needs to be exorcized from Pakistani minds because he also strenghtens the notion of Islam as a foundation of that nation.

On UP, Saleeeeeeem has made an observation: Gandhi and Osama belong to the same spectrum but stand at opposite ends.

There is something about this statement which rings true, but I do not know what. Anyone cares to explain?

Saleeeeeeeeeem?

Re: # 250 tahmed bhai,
don't you think CJ is biased? there's a case by Air Marshal (r) Asghar Khan - which provides evidence that ISI distributed money to Nawaz Shairf,Javed Hashmi,Qazi Hussain Ahmed, Fazul-ur-Rehman and lot of other politicians. Why is CJ not going against them? Don't you think CJ's involvement in missing cases is hurting National Security?
Why are we such a emotional country? CJ is fooling everyone!