The Transformation of the Punjabi Man: Pashtunization or Militarization?

IB: You are obviously an idiot. :-)

Re: # 194,
Here's an example of how the quotas work: urban Sindh, which is the most literate region of Pakistan, is assigned only 7.6 percent of the jobs. This is only two-thirds of the jobs available to Pakistanis from rural Sindh, which is half as literate, but has a quota of 11.4 percent. The province of Punjab has a 50 percent quota in the civil service. It is the only province where the adult literacy rate is lower than the civil service quota (33 percent against a 50 percent share in the civil service).

In 1983, when the quotas were to have expired, they were extended for another ten years. Although from a legal perspective, this exceptional clause stands lapsed, in reality, these regional quotas are still in use.

Although the aim of the 1973 quotas was to offer better chances to Pakistanis from disadvantaged areas of getting into the civil service, they have clearly not fulfilled their goal. For a Pakistani from Karachi, they have simply bred anger, resentment, unrest and led to stolen job opportunities for the qualified. It is high time the situation is corrected, not only for a more equitable distribution of jobs, but also, for the safety and sanctity of Karachi.

santani: good one. dangar chaarna te randa tarna!! :-)

Re: # 186
Zee Kanjara,

dont mention Aitchison College in the Same breath as Dayal Singh or Govt College, This was acollege of toadies. All my ex relatives from Aitchison College became ex by drinking, Affiming and whoring themselves to death and they were Rai Sahabs, Rai Bahadurs, Sardar Sahab, Sardar Bahadurs and a couple of Sirs.These fkrs also did not really suffer partition the way we did as either their Rayaya or their Muslim friends Khan Sahibs, Khan Bahadurs and Sirs helped them get away to safety with most cash and jewelry intact and on 2 occassions they exchanged land with other such gentry moving west.

Regards
Sanatani

We don't discriminate - whos memon , bangoli or anyone - all have migrated and mqm voters.
Btw, Dr.Farooqe Sattar is a memon - half of my family are memon - all the memons, bohris (n.nazimabadis), khojas ( infact shia community is MQM's largest contributer in terms of votes )
okay now ,
Karachi Stock Exchange - out of 10 board of directors - 7 are what you call Urdu Speakers - rest Memon Speaking .
Chiniotis are not part of any KSE businesses - btw, I know Chiniotis who migrated from Calcutta votes for MQM.
Urdu Speakers - ventured into Leasing and Insurance Comapnies - almost all of them are Mohajir Owned.

Memons contributes largely to MQM funds - AKD, Lakson Group,Dewans,Dawoods,Tapals,Arif Habib,Dadaboys,Kasim Dada,Adamjees,Sheikhanis,Tabanis,the Alam Group,Bawanys,Al Karam Group, Yunus Brothers,Syed Maratib of Packages Group,Hasoo Group, Kalia are the biggest contributors to MQM and supporters of MQM.

Pakistan(s) almost all of the top CEO's are Mohajirs - almost all the new softwares firms, technology based businesses,call centres, scientists and god knows all of us are Mohajirs.

cliftonbridge #174: You are trying to convert the pope to catholicism when you tell me If pakistan is made of pakistanis then there is NO need for the quota system. That is, I am totally with you in opposition to the quota system. I think it is blatantly unfair to discriminate on this basis. And indeed, there are two even broader reasons for my opposing quotas:

1. A quota system often is self-defeating, as I can say from first hand experience with the civil service exam. I saw a few chaps from the so-called "backward" areas (NWFP, Baluchistan) who had just returned from Oxford and Cambridge and were sons of wealthy men and obtained 50th or 60th positions moved ahead of candidates from the panjab who came in 20th or 25th in the exam and who were obviousl from poor families with education in local government schools and colleges.

2. Even more important, the quota system is based on a dysfunctional philosophy of public service. That is, it assumes that the beneficiaries of government services are the government employees, not the nation at large. Thus, the nation ends up getting public "servants" who have the wrong attitude to public service and who did not do as well in competitive tests as others who were rejected.

Re: # 163

Kauriya,

Lakh laant teenon. I agree Panjabi's are Dangar's Jad Lord Linlithgow si Vicerai he was interested in Promoting Dairy farming (Having huge Dairy herds in his estates in North England a and a substantial share in another one in New Zealund) so he asked the officialdom to find out India's most progressive dairy farmer. One Datar Singh of Lyallpur was adjudged the best and the Vicerai gat him knighthood and overnight Datar Singh become Sir Datar. Te Panjabiyan ne ki keeta unhani likhi Kavita:

Sir Ho gaya Datra Dangar Char Char Ke,
Onhe moh lai sarkar guppan maar maar ke,
Na kAdi parhiya Na Kadi Likhya,
Akhan ho gayya Char Randa Tar Tar Ke.

Datra (affectionate for Datar) became Sir by grazing cattle,
He wooed the government by talking balderdash,
Neither did he study nor did he write,
He has become 4 eyed by staring lustfully at women.

Poor Datar wore specs.

But I do not agree with you on Maharaj Adhiraj Ranjit Singh.
So shall await your article.

Regards
Sanatani

jayp: I am glad you read my posts. Such loyalty... :-)

viqarm #181 So, you have failed my challenge to identify any factual error or flaw in the reason I reach the conclusion, and conveniently skip that part with a "clever" remark (i.e. calling it "amusing").

Ignoring the inconvenient facts I present, you jump to the obvious implications of the arrogant, petty-minded attitude of you and your kind (i.e. mqm supporters) and ask me some questions. That is fine - I find your questions quite easy to respond to and so have no need to avoid them with "clever" remarks:

You question: Now why single out the mqm over here?
My answer: Because mqm before May 12 and after May 12 remains the only party other than the "Kings party" to side with Musharraf.

Your comment: mind you I am among those who detest mqm's politics?
My answer: you may detest its "politics". But you have the same mindset - i.e. ethnic chauvinism and belittling of the rest of Pakistan.

You drag in Zia to try and back your shameless support for dictatorship on the basis of ethnicity by pretending that the rest of Pakistan shares the same narrow-ethnicity based mindset as mqm and its supporters. There was no democracy movement under Zia. Nor was there an equivalent of the spectacle of May 12.

And dont try to overcome your weak arguments (as per above) with hollow rhetoric about my education and parents.

You write "I am just a street ghoonda "

You couldnt even get this right. I said your mindset is that of a street ghoonda, or rather an mqm street ghoonda. You are obviously a babu who sits before a keyboard who merely has the mindset of a street ghoonda.

I mean, J-man "sacrificed" so much to get you pakiland - the dude went from being a secular good cultured brown-sahib to a frothing-at-mouth complete lunatic - he turned all his principles up side down and inside out to get you the land - and this is what you have turned into... fighting amongst each other, killing each other in droves...

Unbelievable :)

zeemax is right in underlining the age-old educational tradition and infrastructure in Punjab. Lahore has certainly been the literary center of Pakistan and it had that literary significance even before the partition. Karachi's oldest college is probably D.J. and even that was not built by the MQM! Neither was N.E.D. Both existed before the MQM clientel came to Karachi.

Another important point picked up and expanded by him was the contribution to the business activity in Karachi by the MQM clientel, which is not so impressive probably because of their culture which groomes people for administrative jobs and not for risk taking entrepreneurship. That mindset misses the entrepreneur spirit which is the hallmark of Memon and Punjabi busines community. Here a look at Daniel Berk's description of the ingeniousness of two small Punjabi towns would be self-explaining.

It brings us once again to the question of why the MQM clientel living in smaller cities of Pakistan couldn't utilise their 'abilities' to convert these small cities into flourishing economies?

I don't get it - aren't you pakis supposed to live happily ever after - forever free from hinud domination and what not!!!... what happened?...

looks like - the earlier whine about "hindu domination" has now been replaced by even shriller cry about "punjabi domination" :)

#185 Posted by Sanatani,

Yes but we have a tight lid on them now. But you're right ... just see what this mojo musharraf did ... and would have continued to do if his leash was not snapped by Punjabis ... i.e. the Punjabi lawyers' movement spearheaded by Punjabis !

#145 Posted by cliftonbridge

Clifton Grill ... so you want a fight? Ok you got one! Wait to be BBQ'd:

... that means the most "able" ethnicity is constantly getting a raw deal from the most populous ethnicity. I think thats hard to deny....

Firstly, federal pool of revenue HAS to be divided up according to population because if Government revenues are not going to be spent on population, what else are they supposed to be spent on? Lemons? :)

Secondly, what 'able' are you talking about? Isn't it a fact that the VERY BEST Surgeons and Doctors in Karachi are ALL Sindhis? They're all Tunios and Jokhios and Soomros ... etc ... since you're a doctor you would know that from the legendary neurosurgeon Dr. Jumma to the cardiologist Dr. Abdul Haq (recently departed) the best doctors in entire country are ALL Sindhis ... !!! And the fact is that the Sindhis great professional skills were not even seen in Karachi before ZAB opened medical colleges all over Sind interior and gave them a chance. Now they dominate the Karachi medical scene, and quite justly!

Thirdly, what 'able' contribution do karachiites have in major national achievements? Zero ... zilch. The best poetry & literature in URDU has been from Punjab. The gallantry in armed forces has all been from Punjab. The world champion Hockey team was from Gujjar Khan and of-course you know where the cricket team always came from (except Miandad). And to top it all, the historical achievement in international sport where Pakistan did not let anyone near the top 10 for no less than 20 years running was in Squash whose players came from a small village near Peshawar. One after the other. And one of whom (Jehangir Khan) is ranked in entire this part of Asia as being one of 50 greatest sports personalities of ALL time.

Able? Really? Whom?

Fourth, it is a myth that the mohajirs were more educated than the Punjab at the time of partition. How so? You mean with the century year old Punjab Uni, Government College, Aitchison College, Diyal Singh College, MAO College, and scores of others having existed in Lahore from decades to a century at the time of partition, Punjabis were not educated? Crazy ... It's just that Liaqat Ali Khan inducted every barely literate mojo from UP into Govt jobs ... that's all ... from where they made a record achievement of mismanagement and were pushed out in due course .... and now that's their only beef because all they are good for is 'naukar shahi' so they jump up and down for quotas to be fixed for them. Why? They've been proven to be incompetent.

Lastly, you make a biggie out of the Karachi stock exchange. Do tell me that in all the companies listed on it, how many are enterprises of Urdu-speaking and how many are those of Chiniotis, Memons, Khojas, Ismailis, Parsis ... etc .. ??? I will tell you. Almost Zero %.

Of-course you would at-least know that ALL the major brokers in KSE are Memons ... or Sindhis or Chinioti Punjabis etc. I haven't seen a single Urdu speaking.

Mojos just have a chip on their shoulder. All they are good for is being whining little twits. They should learn to compete instead of trying to get another Liaquat Ali Khan in the shape of Altaf Pir Saheb to get them job quotas !!! They even got Karachi with a port as a gift by Liaquat Ali Khan which they don't appreciate. What if the Mojo camps and the PIB Colony etc had been set up in Samma Satta near Chhanga Maanga?

So there. C'mon ... make my day !!! :)

Oh Zeemaxya,

Eh mohajar choti galtiyan karde hain. First small mistake caused 2 million deaths (Partition), 2nd small mistake 3 million (Bangladesh). Am I glad that these fkrs do not do big mistakes it would be the end of the Bhartiya Subcontinent as we know it.

Regards
Sanatani

#182 by zahid_e_khushk

Salim (# 123) shifted unjustifiably the focus to the failure of the Muslims in U.P. and Bihar leaving the more or less equally backward Hindus in the same states unmentioned who certainly don’t stand under the suspicion of being the ‘fifth column of Pakistan’ and so couldn’t explain the underperformance of these two states.

Yaar allow me to please interrupt. Muslims in Bihar and UP are backward simply because more or less, all people there (Hindus, Muslims, Christians, tribals) are backward. This has nothing to do with religion or geography, except to the extent that their poverty is partly due to the lack of resources and more importantly, proper governance.