The Transformation of the Punjabi Man: Pashtunization or Militarization?

#308 Cliftonbridge
"Also moderate karachiites dont think that JI is a good representation of muslims specially not after the sunni shia genocide".

Bibi, that is fine. But you don't overlook killing of people in cold blood because you think they are not good representation of muslims. What is the difference between that and what goes on with the killing of barbers and hijabless women in the north?

Furthermore, the shia sunni genocide is more the work of outfits like sipah-e sahaba, sipahe mohammad and lashkare jhangvi, not JI.
Nor is this sectarian killing limited to Karachi only.

viqarm #306 I dont care if your beliefs are pure as a freaking snowflake. You called me a racist, and then failed to produce anything I wrote when I told you to back your words with anything I wrote. You are welcome to stop wasting your time. Have a nice day.

#306 tahmed: You haven't the faintest clue about my beliefs and, at this point, you shouldn't have any illusions about where I think you can park your opinions.

Feel free to think whatever you like, express whatever you like, correct whatever you like, and - if you can - do about it whatever you like. I does no bother me. I I have no wish to further waste my time with you.

Viq ...thats the thing with MQM they'd kill ANYONE to stay in power. They killed MQM (H) the most gleefully, but they are equal opportunity with PPP ANP IJI etc ...i am not sure they hit JI/supporters because they are anti religion ..they hit them because JI is number 2 in karachi.
Also moderate karachiites dont think that JI is a good representation of muslims specially not after the sunni shia genocide.

Tahmed i AGREED with you on the quota system i didnt ignore you!!!you missed my post i guess.
Feudalism only works for the feudals thats is true but do you see anyone trying to dismantle that self destructive system? why not? on the contrary do you see people voting for feudals time after time? Feudalism is very much alive and kicking chachoo whether you like it or not.
And as for patronizing the urban middle class ...only three groups of people can take control of karachi ..feudals (PPP)..sectarian bomb blasters (JI) or the facist MQM chauvanists. The urban middle class is directly opposed to and threatened by the feudals...we lived under the active genocide committed by IJI (who routinely killed INNOCENT NONPOLITICAL CITIZENS AND BLEW UP MOSQUES) and that leaves the bhatta khors. Guess who gets the 7 million karachi vote? Guess why?
You want to say its racism because you dont like the MQM ...but you know thats a cop out.

As for women leaders chachoo please ...individual pakistani women can be truly outstanding many are ..the most outstanding pakistani woman is def. asma jehangir..that doesnt mean the status of women in pakistan isnt crap. Please just look at the education rates EVEN AS A RATIO of women : men to know the whole story.
Lahore and isloo are diff and prob similar...but overall as you move north from karachi to Charsadda female literacy drops from 85% to 0.85%....you cant sugar coat this one and pretend there is no cultural difference (i am again not saying GENETICS but culture which is an active decision) Please dont call me intolerant for not being tolerant of the pathetic status of women in Pakistan ...and i cant pretend its not miles better in karachi (pretty bad still by many standards).

#302 viqarm: I didnt say I didnt understand you. I was correcting you on your belief that Freedom to Lie is one of your basic rights.

#302 tahmed: What is it in "you can think whatever the hell you like" that you don't understand?

further to #303: the way i see it - on 1, there is no shortage of women leaders in Pakistan, from BB on down. I dont see any women leaders in mqm other than men. nor are women's issues (of the kind that human rights activists like asma jehangir at the forefront in Pakistan) something that mqm is noted for. While no doubt there are primitive customs in many parts of rural Pakistan, but I dont see these as issues for mqm.

on 2., do you seriously think anyone other than feudals is in favor of feudalism in Pakistan? and the quota system I have already explained at length to you, and you ignored it, so I wont waste any more time.

on 3., please dont patronize the sind middle class. They have become the middle class through their own efforts at education, not due to mqm patronage.

cliftonbridge #296 On these "strengths" of mqm, you wrote


1. by pakistani standards very good to women and minorities
2. right about the quota system and fedualism
3. the only ones who give a fig about the urban sind middle class

How did you arrive at these conclusions?

viqarm #300 a free country does not mean you can accuse someone of racism without being able to back it with anything, as in your case. all this means is that you dont have any problem lying.

#295 Cliftonbridge

"I agree with all of this except i wasnt aware that MQM was thought to be anti religious in karachi (by the taleban standards yes) ...not sure thats quite right".

Dr. Sahiba, I can assure you I am no taleban/JI/JUI . But MQM does seem to be extra kind towards this variety, as I am sure you well know from the carnage of the minibus near KU last week.

#288 TAhmed
"If you have a problem with being considered a liar as well, then I suggest you back your accusation that I am a racist by cutting and pasting anything I have written that strikes you as being racist".

You can suggest whatever you want. It is a free country, and I have no use for your suggestions.

I never suggested that feudal system is better than fascism. Both are evils. Both make slaves out of free human beings stripping them of their human dignity. I refered to DAWN's report becaus some MQM voice was showing 'grief' for people living under feudal parts in Pakistan. I don't think human dignity is in any way safe in the streets of Karachi where the riffraff holding guns are marauding.

oh i see...i did not say that criticising MQM was unjustified specially re violence. However when MQM supporters say that the feudal system is like the caste system they are right and i read YOUR comment on the dawn report to imply that since karachi is violent that means human rights are better under the feudals.
Thats not true unless you dont consider women and poor people human.

Bridge Sahiba,
My last post was about MQM agents marauding the Karachi streets and that can be allocated to no. 1 in the list nicely provided by you. That means this humble person was not doing any unjustified critic.

zahid yaar please stick to the genuine criticism of MQM of which there is plenty.

1. Violence
2. Chauvanism (ethnic)
3. Maybe corruption (though i need to be conviced on this)
4. Fukkin fool altaph pai

and please be honest about their strengths

1. by pakistani standards very good to women and minorities
2. right about the quota system and fedualism
3. the only ones who give a fig about the urban sind middle class

when you start with the racist stuff that unlike HP's stuff isnt even vaguely entertaining or thought provoking it gets too much for me ...and lastly yaar i am behan not bhai.