The Transformation of the Punjabi Man: Pashtunization or Militarization?

zee as far as i know thats exactly the complaint right?? are you saying money comes back and is filtered out elsewhere??

between not getting enough money from the central govt and huge immigration to karachi which bursts the seams of its infrastructure karachi is in bad shape alright.

#125 Posted by cliftonbridge,

Yeah. Who else could call the Karachi High Court lawyers 'Luchey Lafangey', and backtrack the next day and try to say he was misquoted out of context. What can be out of context in 'Luchey Lafangey'?

#129 Posted by cliftonbridge,

Ok ... lemme say this clifton. Nothing's wrong with the federal pool. All provinces get their due share from the 'federal' revenues (except Baluchistan which gets a bit more), but there're 'provincial revenues' as well, and Karachi's are the largest amongst all cities. These are taxes such as property taxes, road taxes, vehicular taxes, octroi, and such. These amount to billions.

Where do these go?

Actually these are all pilfered, while in case of say, Lahore, these are spent on developmental projects. That's where the difference lies.

Besides ... there's no immigration in the defence/clifton areas stretching the infrastructure ... but these are just as bad as sohrab goth :)

zee the populatiion of defence has doubled in the past 10 years ...as you know the new phases did not even exist ten years ago.

re corruption ...i cant prove this but the MQM has not been accused of largescale financial corruption as far as i know ...what am i missing?

oh and if you have the stats can you tell me what lahore gets back from the state and what karachi does? i know that lahore is the single biggest beneficiary from the central govt i dont know the figures.

cliftonbridge #115 You make a very good point - the dakoo (mugger, robber, whatever) cares only about getting your property. He doesnt care about your accent, your religious or political views.

Similarly, the investor cares only about getting his investment back plus profit.

The thief thrives in a lawless society, and investors run away from it.

So, the real enemies of any society are those who create lawlessness. So, once again, we come back full circle to the importance of the rule of law. And the fact that our military generals and too many political leaders consider themselves above the law when they are in power makes them the real enemies of society (regardless of ethnicity etc.)

At the time of partition, Karachi was already a well developed and recognized hub of economic activity.
British spent about 250,000 pounds sterling on it, as early as 1866-67. to develop its port , which was a decision which proved on the dot, especially after the opening of Suez Cannal
and by 1914, the grannery of Punjab was exporting the produce throgh Karachi, Hell they even had Banking services then, with financial transaction covering from Japan to Australia to the England itself.
Karachi was then, among the top 5 Elite cities, which Had then the most modern mode of public transport , yes the monsterous TRAMS....which then were the most modern mode of Public transport, no matter how disasterous they proved later on.
Mohammed Ali Jinnah was especially admitted to the Sind Madrassa , for its High standard of education.
so there is no argument that Karachi was already a develped and cosmopolitian progressive and vibrant city.
Hell they even had the only PIANO repairing/ manufacturing
company in the whole India loated at Karachi...!!
so the bottom Line , Migration or influx did not improved anything, on the other hand, it could be said, conditions regressed.
Now comming back to the 65% Revenue Fallacy.
here is in a Nutshell what I found.

any one can go to http://www.cbr.gov.pk/YearBook/
and download their year books.
the latest are in pdf as well as have excell sheets with all the figures and facts in it..

here are a few points I got from it

1- for FY 2005-06 the collection was 713.4 Billion Rs, and accordingly 9.25% of the GDP.

Now GDP is a crude measure of the wealth of a Nation, not the Reveneu, revenue is just like blood circulating in the body, which keeps the body working.
and there is a difference between Collection and Generation.

Also CBR collects 90% of the Federal Taxes.
through
1- Direct taxes
2- Customs
3- Federad Excise and Duties
4- Sales Tax

Direct taxes are
a) Income tax which accounts for 93-94% of direct taxes
the figure for 2005-06 is 209.7 Billion.

b) captal Value tax
c) Workers welfare Fund
b and c account for 6.81 %

They collect through 5 regions, Regions and their collection figures for 2005-06 are

COLLECTION
REGIONS

1. NORTHERN REGION, ISLAMABAD 73,081 34.8%
2. EASTERN REGION, LAHORE 19,418 9.3%
3. CENTRAL REGION, MULTAN 10,722 5.1%
4. LTU, LAHORE 5,828 2.8%
5. CORPORATE REGION, KARACHI 33,708 16.1%
6. SOUTHERN REGION, KARACHI 29,812 14.2%
7. LTU, KARACHI 37,166 17.7%
T O T A L 209,735

LTU= :Large Tax Units.

from the above figures, its is clear, its the Corporate regions , no matter where , whether in Karachi, with already established industrial Units in it, or islamabad, where there is practically no Industrial Units, which forms the basis of these TAX COLLECTIONS.

..and obviously, it then boils down to the FACT, where the Corporate Headquarter is locacted, which makes into that regions collection.


...This by no Means , undermines the IMPORTANCE of Karachi, like I said, it was already an important City, even around the so called War of Independene which was then 1856,...and in 1866-67 British were spending a Lot and Lot of money on it.

....the conclusion is, its sheer exeggeration, these figures of 65% Collection.

Excluding the Corporate collection from Karachi's figures
it boils down to about....31-32%, that too if we include the LTUs....and lump in the Collection from Hyderabad, Sukhar and Quetta in....which have been done in the Classification of Southern Region.

But still 31-31% is a pretty large figure, it means the whole rest of the country, with Export oriented Industries
located all over punjab , Sialkot, Wazirabad,Gujrat, Faisalabad, Sheikhupura, Mian chanoon,....etc...etc.etc...
and not doing what they should have been doing.


...I would request more seasoned persons like Zeemax,to have a more elobarate analysis in this regard.

yes I know, Income tax is not the only Head, for Tax Reveneu Collection.

it actually account for about 30% of the total Tax Reveneu
But I choose , this head as a representaive for all other taxes too, and also , because it was for this head, region wise break up figures were available...

#133 Posted by cliftonbridge,

Karachi alone gets to keep close to 15% of half of Federal Sales Tax (now GST) collected by it, which amounts to about Rs. 30 billion from Federal Pool, in addition to its share of all the provincial taxes which I detailed before. That's a lot of money.

... I mentioned only sales tax because that's the largest component of Federal Revenue :) But there are others ...

Lahore would be getting a lot less in Federal because of no ports, though a lot more provincial share because of the province's population (upon which the NFC award is based). But that isn't the point. The point is you can see whatever is earned being spent in Lahore, but not in Karachi.

Enough of your ( Zeeman / Aquaris ) B.S!
Same Punjabigardi / False Stats at best.
Punjab eats everything up through Punjabigardi NFC Awards ; Punjabi Arguement being that distributioin of funds should be based on population and not poverty.Which is Dadagardi we call it 'Punjabigardi'- Punjab drinks and steal water apart from having a firm control on establishment division.

a) Port Revenues Goes to the Fed's
b) Highway/Toll Collection Revenue Goes to the Fed's
c) It is only during under Mushraff that not even a fair but something is given to Karachi for development.
d) Stamp Duties goes to Fed's
infact everything goes to Fed's - Fed's are Punjabis in Islamabad .

Contribution - depends not just how much tax is collected ( according to your formula / states you guys mentioned
CORPORATE REGION, KARACHI 33,708 16.1%
SOUTHERN REGION, KARACHI 29,812 14.2%
LTU, KARACHI 37,166 17.7%
Total = 50% of total tax collections / then Money from Ports, Customs ( who said you build ports in Karachi - it's a Karachi Property ) , CVT amounts to more then 70%.

Compare that to Punjab - a population of more then 7 cr. how much tax do these folks give?
2. EASTERN REGION, LAHORE 19,418 9.3%
3. CENTRAL REGION, MULTAN 10,722 5.1%
4. LTU, LAHORE 5,828 2.8%

That amounts to only almost 20% of total tax collection from people who are actually 70% of Pakistan(s) population.
So how dare you say that Lahore/Punjab gets nothing!

Bottonline: Punjabis through Punjabigardi eats up half atleast 60-70% of Taxes and Actully contributes 20% .

Well considering the quality of construction in Karachi in respect of the recent collapse of the bridge it's worthwhile think twice before spending at least in a large amount in Karachi

LOL

How would you explain

1. NORTHERN REGION, ISLAMABAD 73,081 34.8%

The notion that Punjab -- the land of five rivers -- is stealing water from its own rivers is at least absurd. Isn't taking water from own rivers Punjab's right?

Re: # 140-
it was your Punjabi Fauji Bhais ( NLC, FWO ) who built the bridge - lesson learnt and no contract will be given to Faujis.
At a same time - MQM introduced a plan that only people with Karachi Domacile will be given jobs atleast in government jobs ( which is a welcome sign) .


Corporate giants milk Karachi - Karachi is the biggest market with the biggest middle class with buying power . That why Corporate HQ's are in Karachi - apart from the banks HQ's . Islamabad is all fake - madeup - all moved from Karachi.

That Karachi has the 'biggest middle class' tells us merely how right the decision of settling down in Karachi of the immigrants from the villages of U.P. and Bihar was. Thanks to Karachi's economic potential and ever vibrant economy they could get the fruits of living in a big city and now rank themselves as the 'biggest middle class'.