The Transformation of the Punjabi Man: Pashtunization or Militarization?

I agree with viqram on most points. However I remember the karachi of the late eighties and nineties and i can not agree that karachi has taken a turn for the worst. We were the most dangerous city in the world back then worse than lebanon ...even thought the rest of the world is more violent now the absolute death count has thankfully plummeted considerably since then.
There are sadly few memories of the 1950's pakistan when muhajirs were truly grateful and sindhis were truly welcoming ...instead its all the recent memories of ethnic strife that has occupied collective conscious....when this generation of politicians (products of a very divisive age) die out i think the future will look a lot better. Economic progress nearly always improves the social landscape, karachi is moving forward and inshallah some day the stupid divisions that are so important today will no longer be important.

#94 teshah sir i have no idea what you are saying. What are you saying?

sorry one more thing i forgot to mention was that the KSE started by none other that ZAB himself was the best performing SE in the world 4 years running 2002-2006 and a strong contender again this year!
GA sindh!

Re: # 76

Of course it is! What is incurable is the disease of feminism 'zan-mureedi'. The fact is the woman is a sub-human creature and the feminist who licks its uni worse than animals.

Re: # 49

How can you say that? SA can never be a Punjabi, I bet?

teshah: a woman is a sub-human creature? how did you reach this interesting conclusion?

#97 if mqm had not introduced its stupid politics in karachi, karachi could well have filled the niche that dubai is now playing. karachi was already the hub of international traffic back then, and a cosmopolitan city that all Pakistanis were proud of. Now it is a place for people to avoid (I once had an option of an overnight stopover at karachi or delhi, and figured i would rather take my chances going from the airport to the hotel in delhi rather than karachi). I hope it comes back to being a normal city again - but that will not happen as long as mqm continues its insane politics.

chachoo it isnt over till its over - have faith. The MQM isnt going anywhere but their blood lust and destructiveness could well be tamed...i have hope. Honestly your chances of not getting shot in karachi are currently better than they have been in the last 20 years ...so long as you arent imran khan :)

"Pashtoons treat women as if they are slaves / toys – they keep them veiled, backward; the reasoning given is that – women can not be trusted. It’s a known fact that Afridi Tribes in Swat and in NWFP sell there women for as much as Rs.300000-500000."


Damn, that is expensive...in Bihar a woman is cheaper than a goat...approx Rs2000

I see the 70% club is active again :-) Where's their Co-Chairperson Tazeen?

A very thoughtful article by Daniel Berk with new ideas which are rarely found in Pakistan these days. In particular the piercing analysis of the Deobandi thought and of other religious schools and their ability or inability to spread in the context of Pakistan. These lines of interpreting the religion by different schools that were unveiled by Daniel Berk are very helpful in understanding the problem of their appeal for different groups. His thesis that the primitive Pashtun culture was the right ground for the seeds of equally primitiv and modernity-hating Deobandi thought explains unequivocally the appeal for this religion that the Pashtun man and all other premodern people have.

Someone here commented that poor people in Punjab weren't aware of the philosophies that were mentioned by Daniel Berk and so they're not following these philosophers. Certainly. But these philosophies explain their behavior and the question why certain developments and a particular mindset developed in one region and not in the others. In my opinion their is a differnce between the object of observation and the observer and the chaotic and unsafe life in Afghanistan ascertains the case made by Daniel Berk.

I wonder what some adherent of these religious schools would say to this analysis, which stands these schools in a different and so far unknown light making them appear not so holy as they've always been pretending to be. For example Daniel's point about the Brelvi schools's obsession with the Christian image of Jesus and inventing the unfounded concept of the presence of the Prophet in the context of Melad should make the Brelvis think about their religion and the absurd arguments they usually give. And the Tableeghi with their focus on overt change and adopting Arabic culture in order to get benefits from God find themselves compelled to answer.

But I don't know why people are not talking about his views. instaed they're talking about one another and the hateful and dreadful Karachi politics aimed only at killing and destructing. Have they really read his article?

#92
"Anyway, I think that the MQM is making a big mistake by siding with Mushy and PPP".

That is true; and before this they have, in turn, sided with both PPP and PML-N in turn - with disastorous results for Karachiites in both instances.

However, there is a more fundamental problem with MQM; and that is its approach to politics based on terror. While I feel that there is a definite need for a political party which reflects the values and vision of the people who migrated from India, such violent tactics do not align with either the mainstream mohajir values or vision for Pakistan. At best, it respresent the crass street level politics (dadagiri) prevalent in the less educated segments of the Indian subcontinent.

Furthermore, this approach cuts at their claims to struggle for democracy and equality, which sound just like emptys slogans. For instance, with refernece to the turmoil in Balochistan, they repeatedly hollered that they would leave the coalition with the govt if matters were tackled by force and violence instead of through political negotiations; they never delivered on those shrill claims, even when Akbar Bugti was killed.

One is forced to conclude that their support for Musharraf is unconditional; and based solely on the consideration that he happens to be a mohajir. Despite all their claims to the contrary, they remain the mohajir qaumi movement, at least to this date.

MQM is relevant, but it needs a different leadership and approach.

cliftonbridge #104 thanks for the assurance that chances of my getting shot in karachi have become less. i shall work diligently to further reduce them by picking up a solid local accent next time i am in karachi and saying this loudly when i get off at karachi airport: "bhayya ham bahut buray badmaash hain!! hamaray saath too too main main ho gai to ham aap ko bahut boora bhalla kah dain gai!! aakhir, ham koi aesi waesi khet ki mooli nahin hain - ham tow lucknow kay baankay hain!!"

Voqram, Pakistan was not made for the Sindis alone, it was made for the muslims / minorities of South Asia. Why should any Mohajir be greatful to any Sindi/Punjabi/Phatan - we came and bought our own lands ,invested and made lot of people in the civilized which otherwise would have been below poverty line to this day. Sindis should be grateful - that it's because of us (Urdu Speaking aka Mohajirs) that industrialization came to urban areas of Sind - and lot of Sindi's benefited from it.
Sindi's got ignored because ( I will be honest ) they happens to be one of the laziest / laidback people you could ever come across . Most of the Sindis working in Government Institutions – are politically thrust in by PPP government during Sr.Bhutto and then during Benzair Bhutto’s tenure ( we have PIA and Sui Southern Gas Company Cases ) where lot of the jobs given was to Sindis ( mostly who got fake degrees).

Yes, I do agree with MQM's in some ways violent approach - but that is due to Jamat-e-Islami ( which I agree with ) and ofcourse, the Pakhtoons of Karachi (ANP) . It was Pakhtoon Criminals during 12th of May apart from MQM – who came out of there holes .

On Akber Bhugti - MQM was in debt since Bhugti gave refuge to lot of MQM workers - during 1992 operations but after repeated Pleas from MQM - he didn't understood. I personally agree to the killing of Bhugti.

I think its better to be in government and oppose policies specially looking in the context of Pakistani Politics – and MQM has learned a lesson after boycotting at least two elections. Keep in mind - with all the ills of MQM - MQM wins - will win because
people are scared of Jamat-e-Islami which is against Mohajir View of Secular Pakistan.
Plus MQM has the best grass root contacts and co-ordination with her voters in Pakistan maybe in whole of South Asia.

I do agree that MQM - needs a good leadership - but MQM can not afford to forget the sacrifices of people like Babur Ghori, Wasim Akhtar, Rauf Siddique and alikes...
As far as Altaf Bhai is concerned I agree he's a cartoon
Character - but comeone what he say's is right (although
I seriously think he needs abnormal).

THANK YOU MQM


From Dawn of today

KARACHI: Shock and awe

By Shahid Iqbal

KARACHI, Sept 18: It is not easy to hold someone up at gunpoint on a crowded public bus, but it’s happening more and more often in Karachi – often with tactics that shock you with their brutality and awe with their audacity. The key to success lies in inspiring fear in not only the victim but the witnesses as well.

This I learnt, to my cost, on Monday when at about 1.30pm, I was in a bus making its way slowly along Sharea Faisal, navigating the endless traffic jam that has become a regular feature of one of the city’s busiest roads.

The bus was crowded to capacity and people eagerly eyed every seated passenger in the hope of getting a seat. The man to my left got off the bus and his place was taken by a well-dressed young man in his late 20s.

Without preamble, the man turned to me and commented, apparently casually, that I reminded him of the killer who had murdered his friend in Lines Area and that he had been looking for me.

My heart turned cold with fear but he put me at my ease by saying: “I know you’re not the man who killed our friend.”

The next moment, he became threatening again and leaned down to show me a TT pistol holstered in his sock. Instructing me to refrain from attracting attention, he indicated that the man standing in front of us and another behind my seat were his colleagues, and armed.

By now, I was in the complete grip of dry-mouthed fear.

The man demanded my wallet and cellphone, both of which I handed over. He calmly opened the phone up and returned my SIM card, then riffled through the wallet and took out all the currency, giving me Rs50 for what he called “travelling expenses.”

I was warned that my life depended on keeping quiet about the incident and not approaching the police later. “I need only two minutes to complete the operation,” he assured me, adding that the bus was being followed by his colleagues in a private car. To prove his point, he called his cohort in the car and forced me to talk to him. A voice told me to cooperate with his friends on the bus and I had no option but to agree.

Frozen in a tableau of fear around us were the many other male and female passengers, all of them watching the drama but cowed into passivity. With their eyes upon us, the man subjected me to a body search, either in the search of more cash or to confirm that I was not armed.

Advising me to report my cellphone as lost, the man looked into my eyes and warned that I would never recognise him. He riffled through my wallet again and made a show of studying and memorising the home address recorded on my office ID card. He also found a cheque and told me that we would now go to the bank where I would hand over more cash. Upon being reminded that the banks closed early because of Ramazan, he returned the cheque.

After that, he stood up, shook my hand and disembarked, smiling with satisfaction.

As for the people left on the bus, everybody avoided my eyes and nobody made a single comment. The fear that has been instilled into every citizen prevented these people from trying to stop the crime — it is this fear that makes criminals successful.

Re: # 111 abnormal urstruly, it's like calling every Muslim a Terrorist !!! whats it to do with MQM?
Infact as a law enforecement officer, I could assure you that it's Punjabis/Afghans/Pakhtoons/Hazari and some Sindi Balochis are involved in street crimes.