India: The Empire Strikes Back

Re: # 66
T-Ahmed , yaar I agree with a lot of things CJ is doing but the missing persons - most of them are hardcore terrorists - fanatics who are danger to society when they are allowed to mix with the society.

Actually, it is very hard to find any reasonably educated interpretationist Hindu, the last one having apparently died when Gandhiji stopped advocating return to the varna system.

So may be we shouldn't dismiss beej's attempt entirely, if he could just explain it....

Beej Babu,

Quran is supposed to be the simplest of all the messages that every illiterate bedouin was supposed to understand.

Your "signal loss" theory does not make any sense. Every true momeen is clear about it's verses. To think that by some stretch of imagination you would be saved from the fate that awaits an idolator would be fooling yourself.

re: beej # 62

beej babu, don't you think most people assume at least that much? :)

laddu and I have serious and very significant differences in our opinions, but both of us, and many others on chowk, will agree with you that human beings essentially are not born differently just because they are born in different households.

BJ Bhai read this-

"Ayaan Hirsi Ali: "Human beings are equal; cultures are not. A culture that celebrates femininity is not equal to a culture that trims the genitals of her girls...A culture with courts that punish a husband for forcing his wife to have sex with him is not equal to a culture with a tribunal that decrees a young woman be gang-raped for talking to a boy of an allegedly higher caste....A culture that insists on holding open a position for women in its Supreme Court is not equal to a culture that declares that the testimony of a woman is worth half of that of a man"

Re: # 62

I think you would appreciate that I am mature enough to understand the difference between ISlam and muslims.

Islam is a cult. Muslims are born into it and are victims of it.

Dhimmitude ensures that the cult is NEVER criticized by Dhimmis like you. Muslims are as human as any one of us idolators - it is Islam that turns them into what they are.

I would recommend that you read the Quran and Shahi Hadiths carefully if you need to understand the difference between the two.

The Chief Justice's fight begins to bear fruit...

'Illegally held' Pakistanis freed

Pakistan's security agencies have released three illegally detained men in time to meet a Supreme Court ruling.

The head of Pakistan's main security agency had been told he faced jail if one of the men was not produced in court by Tuesday.

Hundreds of people have gone missing in Pakistan since 2001.

Human rights agencies say that many are being illegally detained by the security agencies, which often deny any knowledge of their whereabouts.

Missing

Abdul Basit, Aleem Nasir, a German national, and Imran Munir, a Pakistani-Malaysian national, were reunited with their families late on Tuesday.

The missing people's case came into the spotlight in late 2006, when Chief Justice Iftikhar Mohammad Chaudhry started regular hearings and ordered senior government officials to produce those in illegal detention.

...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/6957986.stm

First there’s shining India – then there’s a rising one and now Great Indian Empire – Indians live in limbo. In a country which houses more then 350 million people earning less or a dollar a day; 250 million earning couple of dollars – god knows how many homeless people – farmers committing suicides – there’s no trickle down effect to this day. What’s there to be proud off?

On Moguls, why are we Pakistanis defend them? Moguls did not cared about the so-called ‘Muslim Cause’ – they were only interested in there luxurious lifestyles and expansion of property – yes, Moguls or the elitist were the biggest feudal of sub-continent by taking money from us and not actually sharing the money or investing back on infrastructure. Same goes for the Hindu and Sikh rulers of the sub-continent.

I remember going to Fatehpur Sikri – Moguls moved capitals just because of Sheik Salim Chishti and then moved back – show’s the maturity and brains of moguls which ruled us.

India is a huge country – a civilization – we in Pakistan share history , It’s better now to move away from our past (learn a lesson) and just move on . Pakistani’s Agree or Not – India is a power in Asia to recon with – I just hope the poor gets to share the wealth both in India and Pakistan.

First there’s shining India – then there’s a rising one and now Great Indian Empire – Indians live in limbo. In a country which houses more then 350 million people earning less or a dollar a day; 250 million earning couple of dollars – god knows how many homeless people – farmers committing suicides – there’s no trickle down effect to this day. What’s there to be proud off?

On Moguls, why are we Pakistanis defend them? Moguls did not cared about the so-called ‘Muslim Cause’ – they were only interested in there luxurious lifestyles and expansion of property – yes, Moguls or the elitist were the biggest feudal of sub-continent by taking money from us and not actually sharing the money or investing back on infrastructure. Same goes for the Hindu and Sikh rulers of the sub-continent.

I remember going to Fatehpur Sikri – Moguls moved capitals just because of Sheik Salim Chishti and then moved back – show’s the maturity and brains of moguls which ruled us.

India is a huge country – a civilization – we in Pakistan share history , It’s better now to move away from our past (learn a lesson) and just move on . Pakistani’s Agree or Not – India is a power in Asia to recon with – I just hope the poor gets to share the wealth both in India and Pakistan.

William,

In spite of the negatives of British rule and the

horrendous conduct visa vi partition, the culture

which is Urdu blossomed in misery and defeat and found

a voice in the work of Mirza Asadullah Khan Ghalib and

others.

Ras

#56 laddu

[Say that more clearly without wasting too much of band width that Islam is indeed the most racist of all the cults and has relegated slavery and second grade citizen ship to dhimmis and prescribes death to idolators.]

Laddu dear, sorry I can not say that.

I do recognize that there may be people here who will read – in some of what I have written – some of the material that you have written above. There is little I can do to stop that. (BTW, many of my “harsh” comments actually result from real anguish at the state of affairs!)

One needs to make a distinction between (1) what is written versus how it is interpreted, (2) if the interpreter has a stake in skewing that interpretation, (3) if the interpreter has the expertise and background to communicate the material correctly, (4) if the target audience has the ability to understand what is being communicated, (5) if the listener actually practices all that he/she hears.

My own understanding is there is “signal loss” at every one of the stages – but most of it happens in stage five. Because of all that, most practitioners of ANY faith do not really pay too much attention to what their religion (theoretically) says – and are too busy just meeting the (mundane) needs of life. The essential humanity of every human being remains the same. People – at least those who have a need for spiritual sustenance would reach into their own Books and take what THEY are looking for – because from a basket of whole bunch of goodies, it is possible to draw out virtually every surprise (pleasant or otherwise) one could look for. It is up to the individual to exercise good judgment – if they do not, they lose out.

Gandhiji believed in that essential sameness and goodness of mankind – if others (like Jinnah) do not believe it and want to make a distinction among people, they can do that but I do not have to agree to their mistaken thinking – whatever credentials they claim!

Simply said, it will be a travesty to dump the whole burden on every person (man, woman, and child) of any group of people and paint them with one brush.

masanamuthu, now THAT is a beautiful and wonderful name. Masan, you should consider letting mr pimple use your name, for sufficient consideration, of course.

what's up with so many Dalrymple articles in chowk?..

This guy is fit to be a court historian for Mughals. He would have felt happy with a harem of some sorts..

He believes the "White Mughals" had a nice time by going "native" with a big harem and hundreds of servants to fulfill their wishes and longs for those days when there was supposedly intermingling of cultures..

Echodada #55

White Moghul. That's the beginning and that's the end.

(For all its successes, the British civilization always remained a mercantile one. It left many yearnings unfulfilled.)

beej, Hope chowk staff overlooks that gustaakhi.

But I just find dalyumple a very strange name, and can't imagine why any half decent person with a quarter decent morals would not abandon it for something normal, like beej bihari, patna wale. Hard to take someone of that name seriously :(

Kedarnathji, I am somewhat contrite abt quoting an email sent by an unknown dickhead. Feel like HP of Chowk. Sorry.