Please back off, Benazir!

Ras writes:

"And as far as ZAB and the creation of Bangladesh is

concerned, I left there on March 8, 1971. Someday I will

write about my journey from our home to the airport. "


Ras, you need to write about how the majority of Pakistanis rejected Pakistan in 1971 and the reasons for it. Not 'someday' but NOW!

The characteristic of refusing to come to terms with our past, refusing to acknowledge the mistakes, remaining indifferent or ambivalent at best only entrenches negativity. That is one reason why even today we see national leaders like Sharif and BB (quite possibly) not coming clean of their past and may end up repeating their mud-slinging matches of the 90's and continue to undercut each other giving lots of room for back-door wheeling and dealing by the military.

Stories of the events preceding 1971 and the civil war itself should not be left to write 'another day'. 1971 did not result in a 'velvet divorce'. It was a victory for the feudal-fundo-fauji nexus/TRINITY of the West Pakistan elite who could now offset the challenges by eliminating 90% of the middle class vote.

The more we read and understand the nature of this parasitic trinity, the quicker the movement to crush it will become.

To assume that Pakistan will 'reform itself' with the process of time is the trinity's sponsored defeatist argument. It is as Faiz says:

'voh jang ho bhi chukee jis main rakha nahin hai kisee nay qadam...'

I look forward to your piece very soon.

ohkla writes "And notice... how he has run with his tail between his legs....
He has no answer to questions raised in #190 (all factually correct, all loaded, I stand by every word).."

Actually if you see this bast**** ilog he has copy pasted the same allegations multiple times and they have been answered by me multiple times. He has invented them all NONE not one is true, check the previous incident of that and read my answer, though personal stuff is not important, these sobs have mastered the illogical argument technique of Ad Hominem...

hamid writes " unlike masadi who whines about the american elite thousands of miles away, bhutto tried to fix the elite problem at home ..."

That is where you are wrong, the higher elites, i.e. the US elites work thorough the lower ones to keep a nation enslaved, Bhutto was aware of that as well, a constant theme was converting Pakistan from being the "most aligned" to the West to the "least aligned", and recently thanks to Manto who pointed me to a picture on the site bhutto.org, I was able to obtain a pdf copy of his book "If I am assasinated", now wonder of wonders he says the same thing that I have been saying about the Pak Army being the US occupation force in Pakistan, when he states that coup-hegemony (the coup addiction of Pak Army) is what the real hegemony (of the US elite) works through....

tahmed writes " From the man who came up with the land reform program, and who quit in disgust when ZAB refused to let the proposal"

When I am talking about your soul it aint pretty so I have to resort to those words to describe it, that goes for Feroz as well who even after being stumped and answered, still repeats the age old mantra of cowards by denying the answers.

So according to you the man who initiated land reforms as part of his agenda, did one up on Ayub by reducing the size of private land holding by individuals, and further upped it from 1973 to 1977 when the miserable Zia ul Fcuk stopped the program, you'd rather take the word of a person who "quit in disgust". Think about it, Hamid has said it, even though he did a lot of great things the greatest of them all was to infuse the spirt of democracy and worth into even the lowest of the low. Scan world history and let me know who besides the prophets (as a single individual) has been able to achieve that?

If that were the criteria, take my grandfather, who held a very senior position in both the Ayub and the ZAB govts, as part of the civil service and I have never heard him say a bad word about the guy even though he criticizes Ayub and the sickness he infused Pakistan with...But that would be no criteria for a thinking man... catch my drift?

Nanjil- sorry about the language, but these people have dirty souls that want to keep our people enslaved, sometimes I have to show them the real image of their morality. I will try to control myself

re: masadi

How does calling me names makes up for the fact that you have a superior intellect?

As to name calling, I am really disappointed in you. A professor of your calibre should have a more varied phraseology of insults, but you seem to be stuck with just one or two that you keep repeating. I hope you can improve and reach the next level in naming call, because as it is, you are just in the pee-wee league.

Governments are meant to rule and despite what ever the US declaration of independence said, the US government still believes in sovereign power as much as any other government.

Please answer my questions on Bhutto first and then insult me, but make sure that it is more creative than it has been in the past.

Maybe, English is your second language and you cannot think clearly, in that case; I apologise to you - please feel free to call me names in any language in which you are literate.

Looking forward to hearing from you.

Ciao

Bring Benazir back

HP is totally wrong in asking benazir not to come.

Like her father she is the only one who can get back the soldiers, and declare NWFP as an independent country.

From dawn of today


A tribal elder claimed that only 20 militants were able to take hostage over 200 soldiers, 129 of whom were fully armed.

“It is difficult to believe that 200 soldiers surrendered,” he said while talking to Dawn. He said the administration had detained innocent people who were in fact fleeing the area for fear of militants.

Local people said the weather conditions were normal in the region and the government claims that the soldiers were stuck in the area due to bad weather was not correct.

Security experts believe that the kidnapping of such a large number of soldiers would affect the morale of security forces operating in the tribal region.

“So many security personnel getting captured without firing a shot affects the image of our forces in the country and also sends a negative signal to the international community,” a security analyst in Peshawar remarked.

With so much time available to the mad Mullah for making innumerable long posts to Chowk, a couple of plagiarised phrases here and there are bound to be found true and acceptable.

Hamidm is a decent individual and would not hesitate to give the devil his due... unlike the mad mullah.. for whom the rest of the world comprises of peons of the west.

And notice... how he has run with his tail between his legs....
He has no answer to questions raised in #190 (all factually correct, all loaded, I stand by every word)..

No intellectual honesty... some people.....I tell ya!!!

bhooto gaya, he was interested in only his own glory like every other leader, it is hilarious to sugest he was a great patriot, he back stabbed and misled Ayub, Mujib, Bengalis and Pakistanis, you have to read Khar and Madam durranis revelations about him, according to reports he used to get sons sodomized infront of the father.

Quaid despite all his flaws had a million times more integrity even the Hindians Gokhale and Ambedkar acknowledged that

Re: # 209

Hamidm Sahib:

"...... even though i am ashamed to admit this and it almost makes me want to puke, i must say that i agree with mad masadi on this one .... "

May be Massaddi Mian is very smart, and he knows how to even get you to agree with him.

Can it be, Hamidm Sahib, jhoont nahin bolna?

Z.A. Bhutto remains unmatched as THE leader of Pakistan

since its birth. MAJ was the founder of the country and

should not be compared in leadership abilities to ZAB

because (thankfully for him) he did not have to face the

wrath of powerful undemocratic forces like Bhutto Sahib.


ZAB was the leader of my generation. I still respect him

in spite of his faults. I sure wish that he were

around today to guide my country of origin. Pakistanis

owe him a great deal more than they admit to.


But I would humbly suggest that since neither MAJ nor ZAB

are around today, it is pointless to argue over who was

greater. I say thank God they were around at that time.


What is needed is for Pakistanis to now look at the present

and the future and quit spending too much energy on the

past.

I do not have a dog in this Pakistani power struggle

anymore. My priority is the US elections next year

in which I hope to back Mrs. Clinton. But as CHOWKIES

know in Pakistan my sympathies remain with the PPP.


masadi, I do not know who you are but do try to control

your temper. I myself disagree with ferozk and manto mian

on occasion and with tahmed most of the time but there is

no need to resort to insults.


And as far as ZAB and the creation of Bangladesh is

concerned, I left there on March 8, 1971. Someday I will

write about my journey from our home to the airport.


If you guys think that ZAB was responsible for the break-up

of Pakistan then I have some swamp land to sell you.


ZAB was the experiment did not succeed all of the time.

But do give him a little credit for salvaging the rest of

Pakistan after 1971. Again that is about the past.

The question that comes to mind today is "What now?"


Ras

Re: # 182

You know he is sher but a Kashmiri one, whereas Javed Hashmi is an ethnic Arab as his very name indicates.

Interestingly, Shujaat has tendered him a good advice that he should perform Umra before coming to Pakistan. The catch in it is too obvious. I don't think Nawaz will ever go that way despite his show of religionism.

hamidm #209 I agree that ZAB made poverty an issue in Pakistan, and that goes to his credit. He also made the shalwar kameez a respectable dress by wearing it himself on official occassions, and I used to thank him for that every time I would go to Pakistan in summer.

But words are cheap (as we all know on chowk), and it is results that matter. And ZAB delivered did not deliver on his promise to put poverty on the national agenda. He did this because he either deliberately reneged on follow-up in some matters (as in case of land reforms), or else wrecked key sectors of the Pakistan economy (banking, small enterprise) by nationalizing everything in sight. As for ZAB's concept of "fixing the elite problem", the less said the better - all he did was introduce a wadera form of government.

tahmed mian,

...... even though i am ashamed to admit this and it almost makes me want to puke, i must say that i agree with mad masadi on this one ......... zab was the man who introduced the concept of democracy to the common man in pakistan and gave him back his human dignity - you cannot take that away from the man .......... as my mother (god bless her soul) said when she got mad at the insolent cook or maid, "is kumbukht bhutto nay har dhobi, nai, chooray, chumar aur bawarchi ka damagh kharab kar dia hai !" ......... unlike masadi who whines about the american elite thousands of miles away, bhutto tried to fix the elite problem at home .....

sheikh rashid zindabad ! (i believe that all politics is local)

Your opinion about Bhutto’s polictics is based upon your self-acknowledged gradual political growth and learning the political society of Pakistan.

You have allowed your hindsight evaluation to take precedence over foresight politics of leaders who try to take their society forward.

Political leaders, like Bhutto, who worked for a social change in the makeup of Pakistan at a time of turmoil is rare. The mere fact that Bhutto was murdered under the flimsiest of reasoning by the military junta should be ample evidence of his political genius.

You very well know that politics is not an exact science. Why do you expect Bhutto to be a no-fault politican?

Finally, is it fair to murder a political leader and then malign him?

Re: # 188 Posted by hamidm2 on August 31, 2007 9:13:53 am

[echo,

..... the way i understand it, .............. am i wrong ?]

Trying to understand the mullah is impossible.

masadi:

you make good arguements and you are refreshing. but you can make the arguements without resorting to name calling. it is absolutely not necessary.