Please back off, Benazir!

Re: Masadi # 151

I disagree, with you. There are certain principles that cannot be compromised. There is no reason to limit or even end civil rights even if there an invasion about to happen, as in the case of Cuba and the United States. For example, during the Second World War, the British courts and legal systems were operating even as German bombs were falling over London.

I believe, since you indulge in banal insults, sarcasm is something you are not quite familar with and if you re-read my post, you will notice the acidic sarcasm in my questions.

I agree, with you that Bhutto was the first one to champion socialism in Pakistan and he did appeal to the people. I have nothing against a leader appealing to the people. My only requirement is that such a leader be true to the nation and Z. A. Bhutto was only true to his own ambitions. My impressions of Bhutto are not based on historic books, but from talking with the people, who worked with and knew him. I can vouche for his intellect and vision and I do think, given the balance of facts, that he was a political genius, when it came to the messages of packaged appeals to the people.

Bhutto, was also an evil genius, because his only character flaw, and the biggest, was that he could not hide his meglomania. His popularist policies caused more harm to the nation than they did good and his idea of nationalization ruined the economy of Pakistan. My opinion of Bhutto went from idealism to realism and in the end, with the passage of the years, I understood that no matter how noble the aim or the cause, the end never justifies the means.

In my opinion, Bhutto in his actions believed in the discredited idea that it is alright to destroy the village in order to save it and he, in order to save Pakistan; he destroyed it. The nationalization of education in Pakistan, when bureaucrats took over schools and started to teach politics, was the start of the slippery slope for education in Pakistan. Bhutto's policy of lateral entry into the civil service of Pakistan destroyed the idea of the merit in the government on the basis of quotas.

As to the mandate in East Pakistan, your statement does not make sense. You said that Bhutto did not accept it, because it was the creation of Jinnah, a person whom you hold in low esteem.

If it was a wrong mandate and yes it was wrong, because the real democratic mandate was in favor of East Pakistan, with a large majority. If Bhutto had any inkling of infusing the spirit of democracy in Pakistan, he would have accepted the wishes of the election of 1970 and restored the mandate to the people of East Pakistan.

Instead, he only opted to continue with a system, that you call the creation of Jinnah, and the one which favored West Pakistan. In fact, Bhutto had an historic opportunity to set aright the mistakes of Jinnah, but for the sake of his own personal ambitions, he opted for power at the expense of a popular mandate.

Secondly, we should also remember that it was Bhutto, who allowed the re-enterance of the Pakistani military back into the politics, when he sought the army's help in Baluchistan. After the war of 1971, the Pakistan army was throughly beaten and it was not interested in politics, but Bhutto in order to settle his own political differences with the people of Baluchistan, asked the army to intervene in Baluchistan.

Under the rule of Bhutto, Pakistan saw a civil war as its army fought the people of Baluchistan; Pakistanis and killed them. Bhutto even arrested Baluch leaders, who opposed him.

How did Bhutto infuse the spirit of democracy in Pakistan by bringing the army back into politics by telling it to fight a dirty war in Baluchistan and how did his policies in Baluchistan, by killing the Baluch, amount to bringing social justice to the people of Pakistan?

Also, since as you mention that he was the greatest leader Pakistan has ever seen and if so, could you please tell me why the Greatest Leader Pakistan ever saw, continued to hold an Indian passport and only applied for Pakistani citizenship, when Ayub Khan offered him a position in his cabinet under the first martial law in Pakistan?

Strange is it not, that the greatest leader in Pakistan who wanted to bring social justice to the people started out his political career under the patronage of a military rule and a dictator? Where were his democratic principles and his idealism for social justice for the people, when he was being groomed for power by a dictator supported by the elites of the United States' power establishment?

Where were the principles of this Greatest of all leaders, when Pakistan joined SEATO and CENTO?

Where were his concerns for the social justice for Pakistanis, when the Greatest of all great leaders, refused to allow the vote in the 1977 elections to be free?

If he had such a popular appeal and legitimacy from the people of Pakistan, what was he afraid of in not accepting the election results of 1977?

Had Bhutto not refused the mandate of the people of Pakistan, there would have been no riots in the streets and the army would have had no reason, under General Zia-ul-Haq to take over power in a coup d' etat code-named Operation Fairplay on July 5, 1977.

Bhutto, by his actions and ambitions for power actually paved the reasons on which General Zia walked into power.

Where were Bhutto's concerns for social justice and did he, the Greatest of all greatest leaders, not realize that he was harming the cause of social justice for an average Pakistani, when he refused the election results of 1977 and by his actions of refusal to the wishes of the people, invited the army to re-enter politics and take power?

I can still remember, standing on a roof-top in Peshawar in the early 1970s, and seeing the caravan of trucks carring Bhutto below me. He was wearing a blue suit and I can still remember the color of his cuff-links and the pattern on his neck-tie. He was my hero and I idolized him, but in the end, as I lived under his rule, gained an understanding and saw his actions, I realized that that this was not the same man, I had once cheered in Peshawar and would have readily fought to defend.

Professor sahib, people do not react to the popularity of a political message as much as they react to the individual convictions of the politican, who brings the message to them and more importantly, personally believes in the message itself.

This is the quality that makes great leaders and of all the leaders of Pakistan, only Jinnah had it and not Bhutto.

The verdict of this statement lies in the respect, which people of Pakistan give to Jinnah and not in the messages of Bhutto to the people of Pakistan.

Ciao

Re: # 187

echo,

..... the way i understand it, the imam is supposed to preside over ritual circumcisions, torture children while teaching them how to speak in tongues (arabic), lead people in banging their heads on the floor to atone for their sins, collect animal skins on eid-ul-bakra, engage in sex with young boys in the back room of the madrassa, consume mass quantities of halwa, conspire with the masjid secretary to embezzle funds, pray over plates of food at funerals, and molest domestic animals .............. am i wrong ?

The Imam (leader) of the nation---lets get rid of this westoxicated title Presiden--must be who along with his duties
to defend, to manage foreign relations & to keep internal- peace & harmony; [nothing else should be in his control]..should also be the one who can lead juma prayers at Faisal Masjid or where he happens to be & be learned enough to converse , understand, & consult the Shoora in matters of Sharia.

No jahil with Ba Ba Blacksheep background or a Harvardised mindset should ever be allowed in matters of giving direction to the nation. The degrees of these guys must be put to use, as hired hands, to confront & counter the enemy..the WEST!

Ayaz Amir gets it (mostly) right again!! Dr. Haque for President!!

Autumn of the jackals

FROM the sublimity of the lawyers’ movement (and don’t tell me it didn’t have a touch of the heroic about it) we are down to the spectacle of the country’s politicians — most of them — lost in a wilderness of their own making.

..They (politicians) are overlooking a basic truth. If Musharraf is cornered, if he is now having to talk to the very politicians he earlier reviled, it is not because of the political parties or any struggle mounted by them. ...in this respect (they are) emulating the conduct of the jackal who feeds on prey hunted by others. ..the judiciary must not be left alone in this task. The politicians must fulfil their responsibilities which, at this juncture, boil down to taking a correct stand on the question of the president’s election.

(for the part on Dr Haque, read the end of the article)

http://www.dawn.com/weekly/ayaz/ayaz.htm

re: H P

I generally agree with your analysis, except that:

a) Unlike ZAB, BB didn't evoke the same distrust from the army especially in her second term. She appointed ex-faujis as her Interior Minister and Punjab governor. Many ex-faujis flocked to the PPP although the majority still preferred PML(N).

b) Supreme Court's decisions to restore Nawaz and remove BB was not dictated by the army. Nawaz "bought" the judges prompting BB to coin the term "chamak" i.e. glitter (of gold) to describe the decision. Justice Nasim Hassan Shah's name figure prominently among the recipients of chamak.

c) The army may considers BB a dominant personality but it doesn't fear her as much as it fears Nawaz. BB is more amenable to preserving the balance of power, than Nawaz who tried to impose one-man rule on the judiciary, army, parliament and press in his last stint.

I have objection to the title of this article. Remove the word "Please' and replace the word benazir with another word in english that starts with letter "b" and appropriately describes her.

#179 Boomer

[ZAB & MAJ both were a rare breed bestowed upon a nation which sometimes one feels did not deserve them.]

The thing about individuals with a dictatorial mindset is…

No country “deserves” them.

They themselves think that they are the greatest thing to happen to the country since bhel-poori.

from unplugged:


HP:
some fine-tuning the shair about sher

Kis sher ki aamad hai kay RUN* kaanp rahee* hai....

* RUN ..as in urdu/panjabi & not as in farsi...meaning woman..Benazir.

Picture aside for fun, this guy is no sher. hE SHOULD HAVE HAD THE COURAGE TO BE A JAVED HASHMI

A Nepali writer visits Pakistan & comments"
___________________________________________________________
The n there’s Pakistan.

The wretched Lal Masjid affair produced no winners, only bloodstains and vengeful minds. President Musharaff has made some mistakes in his time but sending his crack commandos into a girl’s school affiliated with a religious institution leads the pack. Suicide bombers have come out of the woodwork to attack Pakistani soldiers and police, men from poor backgrounds blown to bits on both sides of the explosion.

Musharaff’s government tries and fails to maintain a moderate religious stance in a land that grows more committed to faith by the day. Secular forces are still powerful but in troubled times, people seek solace in culture, nationalism, and familiar patters of devotion. Pakistan’s 87,000 mosques are full to bursting and even a cynical, westoxicated national elite is hedging its bets on the religion front. More and more children flock to religious schools that are supposed to teach proper Islamic principles of justice and peace, not the jihadist hate that blooms across a Muslim world under pressure.

Yet again Pakistan defies easy categorisation. The press is free, lively and critical. Deep analysis and investigative journalism are thriving and if the picture that emerges is gloomy, the sense of excitement in its emergence is contagious.

Pakistanis are also dignified, friendly people who long for better days but don’t lose their sense of humour.
___________________________________________________________

TheWEstoxicated Kanjaroooons are losing BIG Time hour by hour.

Let us all pray for their early extinction from the face of this earth.

Echo, I fixed the shair for you

Kis sher ki aamad hai kay run kaanp raha hai
Chargh tau ik taraf, chargh e kohan kaanp raha hai

"P.S: I had the good fortune of "supporting" & be a part of the gang of Ghulam Rasul Talpur & a "groupie" of ZAB...and then the days at quazi abid's place!"

I was still in my teens when ZAB was PM. I met him at least twice. obviously, that don't count for much as I only shook his hands and he was not even looking at me. Mir Rassol Bux and chacha Abid were funny people.

Qazi abid's place! Haha! So you have been to Tando Mahi maan that is what we used to call that part of civil lines. I lived just a block away. Missed you by yards.

HP:178
I wholeheartedly agree with you.

ZAB & MAJ both were a rare breed bestowed upon a nation which sometimes one feels did not deserve them.

Mistakes or "sins" (in hindsight now) either due to personality traits or due to wrong-calculations can & must be always forgiven..

what cannot & should ever be forgiven is feathering ones own nest, nepotism, misuse of office, neglecting the office for personal escapades, "looking after" family, bowing under pressure & compromising to save one's life, leaving the country when things go sour, asking aliens especially the goraas for support, NOt hating the west especially the Americans [a cardinal crime & sin in my books], avoiding mullahs & maulanas & hating them [ again a cardinal crime]


etc etc.

You get the drift.

P.S: I had the good fortune of "supporting" & be a part of the gang of Ghulam Rasul Talpur & a "groupie" of ZAB...and then the days at quazi abid's place!

Those "heady" days of unflinching idealism are the most cherished memories of mine. THat euphoria has never visited me again.

" MeiN bhhee uus bhheerR meiN thhaa jo sar-e maqtal aaee
Paa b'dast-e digar-e, dUst b'dst-e diga-re"

tr:
I too was one in the multitude which was led to the gallows
by hands & arms dragged by one, the feet & legs by another

Echo Sahib, Shair molahizza farmaiya

Kis Sher ki aamad hai kay run kaanp raha hai

Run tau ik taraf, poora Pakistan Jaag raha hai

Three most informed, enlightened and smart people (Asadi, manto, and Ferozk) have chosen to compete in maligning two important politicians of Pakistan. We have to remember politicians are not saints; they do things like any other human being. Out of the thousands, only a handful shape the politics according to their whims. Both Jinnah and ZAB were top notch politician. We may differ with their politics and we find at some time or another, they made huge compromises and momentous mistakes but in the end, they succeeded. Not all people like their successes; many deride them for their politics but in the end since they prevailed, history would always remember them.

Jinnah’s transition is perhaps not as remarkable Bhutto’s was. Jinnah, from a pro establishment stance in the early part of his politics, gradually moved into the mainstream of the Indian politics. He successfully transformed his politics not once but twice. There are very few politicians who have the ability to turn things around so much in such a short time. He made compromises and he fought battles but it is not fair to not acknowledge his genius. Those who disagreed with the last phase of his politics have some powerful reasons to disagree with his perceptions and those who agreed with him feel that he was the savior of millions of people. There was not and there will never be a successful politician, who would not have enemies,

ZAB was a strange phenomenon. A son of one the richest Landowner in Sindh, He ended up dying in the worst of the circumstances. How many politicians who came from his background would say finish it at the worst possible moment of his life?

What he did from 1967 to 1970 was perhaps something that will eventually be remembered as the golden period of Pakistani politics. He transformed the people who had suffered under the most brutal feudalism in history for generations. Pakistani Politics is still reaping the benefits of his bold and courageous stand to go to the people directly. It had never happened before and ironically after awakening those Jinns, he tried very hard to put them back in to the bottle, when he was in power.

I tend to agree with Asghar Khan that ZAB knew what he was doing but in his calculations that was the only way that would put him in front of the political horse race in Pakistan and he was so right about that. He stumbled, made many mistakes and lack of training in democratic principles led him to get involved in some atrocious actions. Still, his contribution to the Pakistani politics is enormous and his many errors are now just footnote of the history.

Now look at this chumpoo, Nawaz. This man was created by the worst person in Pakistani history and he ended up dismissing not one but two COAS. He one upped even the venerable Bhutto. Bhutto engineered one coup against Gul Hassan with help from Gen.Tikka Khan and Air Marshall Zafar Ali choudry(?).Nawaz was not supported by any General and he did it all by himself. How would history judge both? One died and did not compromise with the Junta and the other stared junta in the eyes and ordered the arrest of the COAS, unheard of in Pakistan of 1960-70- 80 and most of the 90s.

The great patriot Bhutto had every opportunity to leave Pakistan in 1977, after he was released from Murree rest house but, chose to stay and died as a result of that decision.

Let us just respect our leaders and accept that they were as flawed as any human could be.

Musharraf:"Sub sey pehlay Pakistan" [Of all,Pakistan comes first]

when asked:"which country is responsible for 9/11"

P.S: that is my caption for a cartoon which someone may please draw.
__________________________________________________________

Is it any wonder the white-house niggers, on visa permit or greencard, just do not have the heart, the balls, the brains, or the backbone to squeak a single word against the hand that feeds them. These mushriks think loyalty to a human is more important than to the Creator & to the Sustainer.

Is it any wonder that they are zaleeled all over the world....in ENGLISH! so that they understand.
===========================================================
READ!




One of the great funnies of the Bush era was when he suggested to Tony Blair that he was considering bombing Al Jazeera....imagine bombing an MI6 asset!!!

Anyway, back on track.The "sham" war on terror has taken quite few twists and turns. The 9/11 ignition event was alleggedly committed by 19 Saudi`s...most of whom are still alive...we all remember the US terror report with all the relevent Saudi pages blacked out. Remember all the Saudi money lines linked to terrorism...all forgotten.

Just after 9/11, we see General Musharraf giving a tv interview...a man with the fear of death writ across his face....poor Musharraf, forced to provide plenty of arrests to maintain the Western terror illusion. Even after Musharraf stated that nearly all of Al-Qaeda had been arrested, the Amerikans kept forcing the anti and now the sham war on terror has become an axis between the UK and Pakistan.

This all goes back to the exit of Russia from Afghanistan. You see, we were led to believe that Bin Laden was CIA, but in fact it wasMI6 and this is why the historical connection between militant Pakistan and Britain is so strong. MI6 used Bin Laden`s men in Bosnia and after that many were allowed to relocate in the UK.

The 7/7 "alledged" bombers again had links with Pakistan. The MSM told us that two of these alledged bombers had been recorded planning crimes to fund their terror plans....the same MSM messaged us that 7/7 cost about £9,000 to pull off. We are also told that all four alledged bombers made several trips to Pakistan...these were long expensive trips...yet British SIS recorded them plotting crimes for much needed funds. Other reports said the went to terror training camps and other reports, "alledgedly" from British SIS said "they weren`t considered a threat".

After 7/7, the police told us that Shezzad Tanweer had £120,000 in his bank account....surely, if knew he was going to die, he wouldn`t leave all that money for the police to find...we are still waiting for the police/SIS to come up with their usual excuses.

Not much happens in Pakistan without the CIA giving the nod. I`ve had enough of the sham war on terror and I`m not supprised the people of Pakistan feel the same way . The tensions in Pakistan could well be CIA pressure on Musharraf....US presidential candidate Barack Obama has publically stated that he`d drop a few bombs on Pakistan if it made Americans feel safer at night.

Its a worrying situation when Al Jazeera receives all of Bin Ladens tapes and CIA agents can`t trace their origins back to Langley.

Re: # 169

Hamidm Sahib:

Aap ke khayal aaj kal Musharraf se tou behtar hain.

Woh becahara kuch bhi theek nahin kar pa raha hai. Uski misrey door kariye.

Massaddi mian ko Yasser ke liye chod dijiye.

bjkumar: I write all these posts about what's happening in Pakistan, and you say I am not interested!! :-(

See #174 below and this tells you why I am interested, and as far as I am concerned the real battle - for the basic rights of Pakistanis, and against would-be pharoah Musharraf who had grown arrogant enough to start "disappearing" Pakistanis - is already won! Now the little people (BB, Musharraf in his post-May12 miniaturized form, NS not to mention the tiny terriers who flourish only under dictators in Pakistan, namely the religious and ethnic fascists) can take over.

What they are now fighting for is the right to serve the people of Pakistan, not rule over them!!

Pakistan Zindabad!!

hamidm: Sure you have a dog in this fight. That dog is the Supreme Court of Pakistan fighting for the Basic Rights of Pakistanis.

And that dog has already won as far as I am concerned (as explained in my post below).