Please back off, Benazir!

Dear Ferozk,

I am pretty confident given what this person has written in the past vis a vis libel and slander against anyone who disagrees with him that you would be able to drag him to court.

If you, freethinker, the chowk staff and others are joined as parties... I am sure you will find many a lawyer who would want to do this as public service- given the general mood amongst lawyers of asserting rule of law.

Masadi,

You've not been able to respond to even a single point anyone raised here factually.

As for Zulfikar Ali Bhutto... I think it is a terrific irony for what he wrought on the country that he is being championed by people like you... when once upon a time he was championed by people like me.

Asghar Khan is one of those few gentlemen in this country who still are considered men of integrity and those who tell the truth (much like the man you hate so much). Here is a nugget:

He recounted how in the era of Field Marshal Ayub Khan he spearheaded a movement with the intent to have Zulfikar Ali Bhutto released from jail. When he was released, Bhutto suggested that Asghar join him in his campaign to destroy Ayub Khan. What would be Zulfikar's programme and policy once Ayub was removed, Asghar asked. Zulfikar, unabashed and completely frank, answered 'My programme is to fool the people. They are fools, and I know how to make a fool of them. Join me and we will rule for twenty years. No one will be able to remove us.'

Not being familiar with politics and politicians in those early years, a naive Asghar was genuinely shocked and his response was that he would oppose Bhutto and his politics as best as he could

But that is not it...

The irony is that Bhutto must be spinning in his grave to be championed by the sort like Masadi- who he prayed to God he would die before they would take over.

rozaiba writes "Islamists with their love of hijaz that became the mainstay of British propaganda in their attempt to divide the Muslims of India. Not Mahomed Ali Jinnah..."

No propaganda can ever achieve what was achieved as fact on the ground thanks to Muhammad Ali Jinnah, he served his miserable ego as he served the miserable British, dooming the Muslims of India, both inside and outside Pakistan to now over 60 years of misery....and we have maintained his tradition, we don't need more of the same old sh**

In #152 read "delinking for the US..."

as "delinking from the US..."

tahmed writes "On the point of what caused Musharraf's weakened position - I think my friend that you are confusing cause and affect."

No, you are not slipping in your old age, that was sarcasm on my part, when you talk about Musharraf's shenanigans you are actually deliberately masking the intentions of the objects of your unconditional worship, i.e. the US elite. When the US was supporting him, the army was supporting him and he was KING of Pakistan, and in his mind KING of the peon countries that are de facto dominions of the US. That was then, this is now, when he is bowing before the BB because that support is now elsewhere, the "mighty" fell and they fell bad not because of the BB or the CJ, but because of their puppet masters, the US elite..... Wake up, every morning is precious and gives you new opportunity to repent of your ignorant ways, and quit being so deceptive in your old age, soon you will have to account of your idolatory to your maker....

HP wrote "We know the US is playing a horrible game in Pakistan but just yelling foul, foul will not stop the US.


Very true but it might educate the people who can eventually in X number of years make some difference or one of them can become a charismatic leader like the ZAB, that is my purpose behind crying foul. The solution of course are strong institutions but those will never be allowed to emerge in Pakistan if we remain linked with the US, so delinking is part 1 of the equation that needs to be solved for any strong institutions to take root, delinking for the US means getting rid of the cancer that regardless of the calories consumed makes us weaker and weaker....

Feroz writes "Z. A. Bhutto, was educated from an American university.....How did Bhutto "infuse" the spirit of democracy in Pakistan by setting aside the civil consitutional rights of the people, creating a non-accountable police force, spying and percecuting his political opponents and not agreeing to accept the election results of 1970?

Please explain (without name calling and hurling insults and making statements tantamount to libel and slander accusations)."


So what's the big deal if Bhutto got an American education, so did I, that certainly does not make him or myself pro US elite, and by the way I did not call the US the "worst elitist nation in the world", my posts if you put aside your “West-worshipping” blinders refer to the US elite who subvert democracy both in their lands and in ours. If a US education teaches you how to think, teaches you the nuts and bolts of the world system and you come to realize that your “independence” is in name only, and btw I have read his book that Manto is touting, then only an infantile mind (like yours Feroz) will conclude that just because he studied in the US or managed to go through the Ayub corridors of power (that taught him to break away from it by a principled stand and evoke mass support that infused the life of democracy in a dead-mule country), he was pro-army or pro-West.

Regarding ZAB, I support his efforts because he was the first one in the West section of Pakistan to evoke popular support and get the masses involved in social justice and democracy issues. Not only did he talk the talk he walked the walk, and his measures bringing social justice to the people exceeded those of Chavez, the hero of the left these days, I have read several comparisons of the two. If he didn't accept the mandate of the people regarding West Pakistan is because the whole setup (thanks to Jinnah and his Western masters) was non viable, in other words by rejecting that mandate, Bhutto served the cause of democracy in Pakistan; the Army would have got rid of that arrangement a few months into the new government anyway. Regarding curtailing civil rights, similar arguments are brought against Castro, when you have the CIA buzzing all over, having an occupation force of which you have to be at constant alert removing over 40 senior officers and surviving 2 failed coups, you cannot have civil rights and business as usual. Like I have always maintained, it was a Herculean task, and by evoking mass popular support, getting the people infused with a democratic spirit for the very first time in Pakistan, easing tensions with Afghanistan and India, unlinking itself from the US, undertaking a myriad of social reform to bring greater wealth to the people, in a very short time and then seeking an alliance of the "third world" particularly in the ME, these are achievement that no peon, sob like Manto can ever achieve. The man was the greatest leader this nation has seen, Jinnah included, that a leader like that happened in Pakistan was truly an anomaly. I respect him; in fact there is hardly any Pakistan that I respect more than him, excluding my dad of course!

By the way calling someone a miserable fcuk does not amount to “libel” and it does not amount to “scandal”, check the meaning of these words before you throw them out.

In this power struggle even if Mushy were to lose out, so what? He has already lorded it over the country and the army for 8 years, he will just retire to some mohalla in Karachi and the army will ensure he dies a peaceful and natural death when his time is up. Until then he will be a lifetime jamai of Pakistani govermment. Mushy should not have any regrets at all.

Man, looks like Superme Court can do everything
in Pakistan now!
Hope in soon can put a stop to jihadis infiltrating
in India and Maqbooza Kashmir forever.

anil: It is true the Supreme Court can only go so far in putting Pakistan back on the path of democracy. But it has already achieved remarkable results in protecting the basic rights of the Pakistani people in two key areas:

1. Habeas Corpus: No longer can intelligence agencies simply "disappear" people without being accountable to the courts.

2. Right to Vote: No longer can Musharraf hope to make a mockery of the election process by getting himself rubber stamped for another 5 years.

For these services alone, the Supreme Court and the Chief Justice have already won their places in the hearts of the vast majority of Pakistanis, and a place of honor in the history of Pakistan.

And the Supreme Court is not done yet.

Musharraf and the BB and Nawaz Sharif have chosen to continue their selfish struggle for power, but that requires overcoming constitutional hurdles. They may succeed in doing so by changing the constitution to meet their personal goals (i.e. to change the perfectly reasonable rule of ex-government servants not being permitted to run for elections in case of Mushrraf; and the perfectly reasonable rule of not permitting a third term as prime minister to any indivdiual).

But no doubt, if there is even a tiny legal opening somewhere to protect Pakistan from the greed of these three individuals, the Supreme Court will be there.

Re: MantoLives# 129

Thanks, for correcting my omission on which school Bhutto attended.

Yes, I have a guarded optimism. I can sense the change in the winds and I honestly think that this nation has reached a level of political maturity, where they are now aware of their constitutional rights.

I think, that now democracy in Pakistan will be defined in the judgements of the Supreme Court decisions and people, will approach it for solutions to their problems, because they now believe in it as an indepedent institution.

I hope the Supreme Court lives up to the common expectation.

Thanks, for your comments on the post and ilog. :)

Ciao

iron_mask: Of course you can point to some mistake or flaw in anyone. But look at the cj's courage when musharraf tried to bully him with the help of his precious uniform and his intelligence generals!! Look at his holding peaceful demonstrations even as a staff member of the Supreme Court was assassinated!! If this isnt moral courage, I dont know what is.

Even more important - instead of personalities, it is the impact that is important. And the impact of the cj's personal courage has been that the entire nation has woken up and shown the world that the wishes of the Pakistani people cannot be ignored. Even Bush understood this when he echoed the cj's basic stand in calling for free and fair elections in Pakistan.

Re: # 144

Iron_mask sahib:

Probably I do, because it in lies all hopes. Only then one can see a lotus in keechad. Try it, and propogate it so people don't see the first solution that comes to their mind as the only one solution. Many people, call it thinking outside the box.

Re: # 143

but was he not the same guy who let legitamised the army with some cock-and-bull ruling, was he not the same guy whoo did a number of other dirty stuff

and you expect this guy to do the right thing. He never did the right thing in his life.

Anil you live in utopia.....

Re: # 139

Tahmed Sahib:

This chief justice, truly has unprecendented opportunity to vigorously maintain independence of Judiciary. For sometime, all of his acts will be lauded. He must spend this capital of people's verdict very carefully.

Can he do that? Time will show, a system capable of providing good governance can emerge, if he remains unswayed by politicial expediency to side with some and punish others. Like Yasser somewhere mentioned, he can truly lead through constitutional reform. Although his hands are tied, as he cannot create laws, only interpret and apply them. He cannot do a legislature's job.

WTF? lol.

I mean what the heck difference does it make. All of them are the same bunch of guys. All of them in incestuous relationships experimenting all over.

Gol Maal, nahi, sab maala maal hain!