Musharraf's Options: Time Running Out

#38

"mullah chad day ilm kittaban da,
tainay chayaiy bar azaaban dan
Ker wuzu joug sharaban da
teray un-der, bahar paleeti hai"

Meditation, praying, nafal etc, all good....but the sufis never preached the technicalities, they preached love. And once you get to know love, they can pray however much they want.

So I stand by my :this namazi, hijabi bullshit is taking over the things that really matter :)

Re: # 34

tera jawaab nain ji! main haar man gya vaaN! :D

..erm although i am against wahabification, ie. extremism in pakistan of the ghazi bradraan variety, it is a fallacy to think that sufis islam, which i follow, lays less emphasis on namaz and roza and sunnah...indeed the sufis have always been THE MOST practising Muslims as far as the Sunnah is concerned...indeed how else do you think a wali becomes a wali? How many rakahs a day do you think Data Sahib or Hazrat Sultan Bahu prayed?! Many many more than just the 5 basic prayers. Imam e Azam prayed 1000 rakahs in 24 hours!

Yes, the traditional Sufi muslims don't FORCE others to be good Muslims, rather they concentrate on purifying their OWN selves. that is the difference but to mock namaz and sunnah as our friend thinkingstorm has done is not on!

Hazrat Shaykh al Akbar Ibn Arabi is one of the greatest Sufis of all time whom we love and believe to be one of the greatest saints of Islam. He was Spanish and when the Muslim ruler asked him what should be done with the Jews and Christians he said they should be treated according to the Shariah i.e. jizyah should be imposed on them!
My point is that Sufism and Shariah are two sides of the same coin...the Wahabis of course consider Ibn Arabi a kafir!!!

#30

tahmed32, I agree that people should be able to elect thier leaders, or better yet, govern themselves.

I do not consider the BB or the NS experiments to be quite democratic really. And especially now, I wish there was a better alternative, there isn't, and it will probably be one of these people that gets elected. The future is not looking too rosy.

Plus the real problem is the fundamentalism that is spreading like a cancer. All this namazi hijabi bullshit ... we are living in a modern world and all our middle class is getting obsessed with is how much hair should be covered and how many nafals and sunnats to pray.

fundamentalism will destroy Pakistan. I hope we can revert to the tolerant sufi islam.

repectfully.
Thinking

#33 Posted by Naqshbandi

“Ummat pe teri aaj ajab waqt aan paRa hai”

Just a change of one word suffice here.

“Mullah pe teri aaj ajab waqt aan paRa hai”


Sir ji,
Hamidm wrote new Punjabi slang

banday non dheeth honra chaida !"

You think honor of the mullah would be restored, if Rashid Ghazi is brought back from the six feet under? (In his case probably 60 feet under?)

#30 Posted by tahmed32

“You mean - you like to hear that. Musharraf's downfall started the day he made a mockery of the democratic process.”

The sage, aka DM has a knack of making some profound statements. Since you have taken up this issue, I would refrain from adding more than two lines.

If you recall, the downfall of the poor Shah of Iran was also a result of his compliance of the human rights as outlined by dear Mr. Carter.

Btw, Musharraf’s democracy started in 2002…pretty long run for a person, who is supposed to be losing power because he started to promote democracy.

Re: # 33

naqshbandi,

""Ghairat baRi cheez hai jahaan e tag-o-do mein"

...... let me remind you that, "ghairat tey ani jani cheez ay, banday non dheeth honra chaida !"

echoboom bhai---you are 100% right. the most shameful thing about this whole episode is the way these so-called leaders of pakistan turn to the US like slaves when it is totally internal matter.

instead of BELIEVING in "La ilaha il Allah..." the kalimah of the Ooon-Poons is La ilaha il Amrika! It is so so sad!

What is the verse of Iqbal's, "Ghairat baRi cheez hai jahaan e tag-o-do mein"

When will our leaders learn to DO AS THEY WILL and not as OTHERS will.

This is what will happen to a qawm when they do sajadah to others besides Allah.

Ya Allah! Please send your Mahdi now! amin.

Ay Khaas e khaasaan e Rusul (alayhi afDalus salawat us salam), waqt e dua hai:
Ummat pe teri aaj ajab waqt aan paRa hai
Jo qawm baRi dhoom se niklee thii watan se
Aaj pardes mein voh ghareeb ul ghuraba hai!


Will NS/BB/Immy be better? When will that mard e mujaahid be the leader of pakistan who will do whatever he feels is right for PAKISTAN without caring about what the rest of the world thinks?!

dost mittar #29. Your point of not bringing up India-Pakistan bs is valid and I'll try to avoid that with a reasonable individual like you (with unreasonable individuals, of course, one does not need to bother trying to be reasonable if one chooses to waste time commenting on something they wrote). :-)

I still think you are unrealistic when it comes to recognizing the power of legitimacy vs the power of the gun. How long do you think Indira Gandhi could have held on if she tried to use force? In case of Musharraf - he would have used force if he thought he could get away with it. He tried that when he tried to bully the chief justice in giving him a rubber stamp "re-election", and failed. He tried again on May 12 and failed. If he tries to use it again in future, all bets are off on the results. So, maybe Musharraf knows something that you need to realize - brute force isnt going to keep him in power. Some form of legitimacy will - and that is why he is shuttling from islamabad to dubai trying to cut deals.

The ancient chinese sage realized this when he mentioned that rulers have a "mandate from heaven" - and that mandate is ultimately the voice of the people, the voice of God. And the holy prophet understood this when he said that the pen is mightier than the sword.

dost-mittar & almost every:

Is the ability to suffer fools inherent, acquired or a strategy to keep the fool on a long leash till he does himself in.
Is there an IQ test which can deteremine if a person is below even the minimum? ..Would that person understand what he is being tested for & therefore would it not be a "test" in the first place?

You ever noticed that most stupid people are invariably "polite" as well & and also have a simple staright forward sense of humour.

#29 "well said"

You mean - you like to hear that. Musharraf's downfall started the day he made a mockery of the democratic process.

dost_mittar.

re: musharraf's downfall when he sought democratic legitimacy

Well said.

tahmed32:

The point was very simple, and it had nothing to do with Pakistan, India or Inglistan (you should give up your habit of bringing India-Pak thingy on every issue). It is that a dictator's power arises out of complete control, which he can use for either good or bad. Since you brought India into the picture anyway, let me give an example from there: Indira Gandhi actually did something good during Emergency, enforced birth control on people against their will; even though it was in their own best interest, this was perhaps the single most important factor why Nathu Ram and Abdul Karim threw her out of her chair as soon as she decided to go democrat again and asked them for their approval.

#22 kya bat hain...how about the day he did bagal mein churi kargil when navaz sharif had moonh menin ram?

or when he conquered the TV station ..you distributed laddoos on the chowk?

THE REASON THERE IS NO HOPE IN A "POLITICAL PROCESS" IN PAKISTAN. THE REASON WHY IT IS THE RIGHT TIME TO INVEST IN THE BUSINESS OF GUILOTINE MANUFACTURING:


http://www.jang.com.pk/jang/sep2007-daily/03-09-2007/col 9.htm

SURRENDER MONKEYS

http://www.express.com.pk/images/NP_LHE/20070903/Sub_Images/110025529 2-2.gif