Musharraf's Options: Time Running Out

Emergency is the best option for mushy and the US and is the ideal excuse to unload the daisy cutters on the tribals. The grave error made by collin powels need to be corrected.

The jihadis need to be trapped in a hammer and anvil move, they have to be bombed all the way to the indian border, and then shot by indian troops. That will be an appropriate action for the kashmir and kargill in which the tribals were involved, and as can be expected, the pak army will be out of it all, ruling the civilians, constructing highways that collapse.

The 'Man' proposes -- the Supreme Court disposes:

"When is the President’s dual-office period ending, asks SC
ISLAMABAD: Supreme Court has asked the President’s Legal Advisor, Sharifuddin Pirzada to enquire from the President and inform SC as to when the President’s dual-office period was ending.

The seven-member larger Bench of the Supreme Court headed by the Chief Justice, Mr. Justice Iftikhar Muhammad Chaudhry, while hearing here Qazi Hussain Ahmad’s petition against the President’s dual offices, asked the President’s Legal Advisor, Sharifuddin Pirzada to clarify as to when the President’s dual-office period was ending, while Pirzada made a plea that he needed President’s directive and thereon, he was asked to enquire from the President and let the Court know."(NEWS)

Exactly, when? -- Bhutto and Nawaz can't be PM ‘third’ time, 'constitutionally' (without either of them completing their terms, both times) -- but the self-declared Messiahs are for ever, unconstitutionally -- SC asks WHY and how come? -- in a show cause order the SC would like to examine the 'Divine Certificate' for Eternal Messiahdom.

Emergency! Emergency!! Where are you?

abu sufwaan before u accuse muslims of shirk brother you should fear allah and remember the hadith of the prophet: i do NOT fear shirk for you after me but rather the love of this world.

Sorry dear chowk reader for the double posting (#51/#52) below.

thinkingstorm #37: The alternatives as I see it are not Musharraf vs BB/NS (all three tried and tested losers, I agree), but Dictatorship vs Rule of Law. Pakistan can survive Mush (or BB or NS or indeed even a half-eaten samosa) as prime minister or president as long as there are proper checks and balances that do not put the fate of a nation at the control of a single individual. That is why the Chief Justice's campaign is of fundamental significance to Pakistan - and on a different plane altogether than the mere politicking of Mush, BB and NS.

You continue Plus the real problem is the fundamentalism that is spreading like a cancer. All this namazi hijabi bullshit ... we are living in a modern world and all our middle class is getting obsessed with is how much hair should be covered and how many nafals and sunnats to pray. fundamentalism will destroy Pakistan.

There is no question that this obsession with rituals and fashion statements (beards, hijabs) is character-destroying and thus a total repudiation of the message of Islam. Thus, "sawab" is not earned by being honest, respectful, or rational in this neo-paganism sweeping certain circles in Pakistan. Instead, "gunnah ma'af" is the name of the game among these circles in Pakistan, where a visit to Mecca is deemed to wash away sins, and the sajda is deemed to earn "sawab"!! This corrupt view of religion carries over into the economy, where "qarza ma'af" replaces "qarza chookana", and where the VIP culture (pervasive among all groups - military or otherwise, bearded/hijabed or otherwise) replaces the egalitarianism of Islam. This paganism thus directly promotes immorality and is character destroying, and is the opposite of the message of the Quran.

While agreeing on the problem, I dont think "sufi Islam" is the solution. Rather, "sufi Islam" is a retreat from problems, rather than a solution.

The real solution lies, once again, in the rule of law which starts with respecting the basic rights of all people (including the right to free speech, and the right to elect and the right to refuse to re-elect the executive head). Because a society based on laws is strong enough to allow all sorts of religious nuts and all sorts of rogue politicians to do their thing without doing significant damage to the rest of the people who actually have something useful to contribute to society.

thinkingstorm #37: The alternatives as I see it are not Musharraf vs BB/NS (all three tried and tested losers, I agree), but Dictatorship vs Rule of Law. Pakistan can survive Mush (or BB or NS or indeed even a half-eaten samosa) as prime minister or president as long as there are proper checks and balances that do not put the fate of a nation at the control of a single individual. That is why the Chief Justice's campaign is of fundamental significance to Pakistan - and on a different plane altogether than the mere politicking of Mush, BB and NS.

You continue Plus the real problem is the fundamentalism that is spreading like a cancer. All this namazi hijabi bullshit ... we are living in a modern world and all our middle class is getting obsessed with is how much hair should be covered and how many nafals and sunnats to pray. fundamentalism will destroy Pakistan.

There is no question that this obsession with rituals and fashion statements (beards, hijabs) is character-destroying and thus a total repudiation of the message of Islam. Thus, "sawab" is not earned by being honest, respectful, or rational in this neo-paganism sweeping certain circles in Pakistan. Instead, "gunnah ma'af" is the name of the game among these circles in Pakistan, where a visit to Mecca is deemed to wash away sins, and the sajda is deemed to earn "sawab"!! This corrupt view of religion carries over into the economy, where "qarza ma'af" replaces "qarza chookana", and where the VIP culture (pervasive among all groups - military or otherwise, bearded/hijabed or otherwise) replaces the egalitarianism of Islam. This paganism thus directly promotes immorality and is character destroying, and is the opposite of the message of the Quran.

While agreeing on the problem, I dont think "sufi Islam" is the solution. Rather, "sufi Islam" is a retreat from problems, rather than a solution.

The real solution lies, once again, in the rule of law which starts with respecting the basic rights of all people (including the right to free speech, and the right to elect and the right to refuse to re-elect the executive head). Because a society based on laws is strong enough to allow all sorts of religious nuts and all sorts of rogue politicians to do their thing without doing significant damage to the rest of the people who actually have something useful to contribute to society.

Re: # 47

thinkingstorm,

... thank you for your support :) .... but i really don't mind being called a kanjaroon since the kanjars are the only honorable people in pakistan ...... as long as someone does not call me a mullah or confuse me with a 'good' muslim, i am happy ...........

..... the kanjars are professionals who work hard at their ancient art to make an honest living ..... the madams, dancers, tabalchis and the guy who stands at the door with garlands of roses and motia are all honorable men and women .... quite unlike the despicable rascals who speak in arabic tongues and tell us to knock our heads on the floor again and agian and again ..... these bearded denizens of hell are the real enemies of the people and should be kept away from little children and domestic animals ......

... the kanjaroon are god's children .....

HAHA...surrender monkeys fold...

Govt frees 100 tribesmen, opens Wana-Tank highway

* Baitullah Mehsud puts conditions for release of abducted soldiers

Staff Report

WANA/GHALANAI: The government on Monday freed more than a 100 arrested tribesmen and opened the main highway to meet some of the demands made by the Taliban for the release of around 200 kidnapped soldiers in South Waziristan, but the soldiers have not yet been freed, officials said.

In Mohmand Agency, a government deadline for the release of 10 paramilitary soldiers held hostage by the militants passed without any significant response from the captors and a tribal jirga was still negotiating their safe return, Mohmand Agency Chief Administrator Dr Kazim Niaz told a news briefing in Ghalanai.

“We have no details whether the jirga has persuaded the Taliban militants to release the soldiers or not,” a senior government official in Wana told Daily Times asking not to be named.

If the tribal belt becomes a “no-go” area for the Pakistani government, the USA has little recourse but to attack the militants therein on its own. This would severely limit the usefulness of the Pakistani army to the USA.

The army – which enabled Mr. Musharraf bring things to this juncture ought to realize the he is only the symptom of the malaise – the malaise being the institution of the army itself which has done maximum damage to the country of Pakistan by killing off most of its democratic institutions and coloring the civilian ones with a thick coat of Islamization. Passing the baton to a proxy – trusted or otherwise – will not change that simple fact.

It is time to get rid of the myth that one can rule a country on the basis of military might alone.

All the horse-trading will be meaningless and can only take one back to square one! In my view, both the BB and the NS are so passe - perhaps too old to change their set ways. Perhaps it is time for the younger generation to take charge and start using something new in the affairs of the state – something called common sense! The first step ought to be to make a clean break with the past and make a clean breast of all previous sordid deeds versus India – to start laying the bricks of friendship based on a foundation of honesty – and they should disown and fire anybody who deviates from the simple logic that Pakistan can only be a success if India is so.

okay I re-read some of the posts by hamidm2...seems you guys have a history...my bad for interfering with your joyful banter ;)

Please don't stop calling him a kanjaXXX on my behalf. But perhaps you may be open to dropping the OON...it is just so unseeming :)

echo-

I really don't know where this habit of attaching -OON to things comes from, but it does make yours a one trick pony show.

Also, it is not nice to call hamidm2 a kanjar-oon. no?

Re: # 14

Echo

"Who among us is not familiar with the stampede which occurs at Desi parties when announcement for food is made. This phenomena is unique ONLY to Indians & Pakistanis."

This is the 'Commando culture', moderate and enlightened!

A commando trying to don a mantle of civilized human being? How can it be possible as Ghalib had said:

"Saraapa rehn-e-ishq wa naaguzeere-e-ulfat-e-hasti
Ibaadat barq ki karta hoon aur afsos haasil ka"

The Pakies worship the Holy Atom Bomb (I actually saw them offering 'namaaz' before the replica of Chaagai on the Islamabad Highway) can get only a Commando to rule them. The Mullah-military rule is the natural result of the Paky Jingoism-cum-obscurantism.

Lage raho echo bhaai!

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This situation is going to cost me a lot dinners to my Pakistani friends, as I had bet with, including HP, to host a dinner in San Francisco, if in Pakistan, the power separation between Musharraff (= Army) and Bhutto (=PPP) did not work out. Although I would love to host a celebration of the other kind also.

Nawaz Shariff is a new card. If BB and the General cannot deal with due to lack of mandate in the fair elections, then I would say democracy still prevailed. As I see with this new card, the real decision is who will marry the General (=Army). I would say let Pakistani janta (=awam) decide.

Although I still bet it shall be BB (=PPP) and General (=Army).

Yarr Naqshay baaz bhai, Why do u always make everything about the superhuman capabilities that ur supposed 'auliya' possesed..sometimes they sound even holier and more righteous that Abu-Bakar (RAW) and Umer bin alkhatab (RAW). Give it a rest already..it'll take me but one post to shred ur barelwiyat in 2 pieces and make a laughing stock out of it..but this article is not about that..so get over ur obsessions with Imam Abdul Wahab Rahim ullah allayh...besides isnt time to for u 2 go worship a grave somewhere already?

#38,

Naqsh, also note that I am not mocking namaz / sunnah (" mock namaz and sunnah as our friend thinkingstorm has done is not on!"), but rather, I am mocking the obsession with it. How high the shalward should be, how long the beard should be, and all other such nonsense are technicalities.

you don't want a bunch of people going through rote meaningless rituals do you? Imam e Azam must have not just gone through motions right?

I think you catch my drift :)

Think Naqsh Think

#38

"mullah chad day ilm kittaban da,
tainay chayaiy bar azaaban dan
Ker wuzu joug sharaban da
teray un-der, bahar paleeti hai"

Meditation, praying, nafal etc, all good....but the sufis never preached the technicalities, they preached love. And once you get to know love, they can pray however much they want.

So I stand by my :this namazi, hijabi bullshit is taking over the things that really matter :)

Re: # 34

tera jawaab nain ji! main haar man gya vaaN! :D

..erm although i am against wahabification, ie. extremism in pakistan of the ghazi bradraan variety, it is a fallacy to think that sufis islam, which i follow, lays less emphasis on namaz and roza and sunnah...indeed the sufis have always been THE MOST practising Muslims as far as the Sunnah is concerned...indeed how else do you think a wali becomes a wali? How many rakahs a day do you think Data Sahib or Hazrat Sultan Bahu prayed?! Many many more than just the 5 basic prayers. Imam e Azam prayed 1000 rakahs in 24 hours!

Yes, the traditional Sufi muslims don't FORCE others to be good Muslims, rather they concentrate on purifying their OWN selves. that is the difference but to mock namaz and sunnah as our friend thinkingstorm has done is not on!

Hazrat Shaykh al Akbar Ibn Arabi is one of the greatest Sufis of all time whom we love and believe to be one of the greatest saints of Islam. He was Spanish and when the Muslim ruler asked him what should be done with the Jews and Christians he said they should be treated according to the Shariah i.e. jizyah should be imposed on them!
My point is that Sufism and Shariah are two sides of the same coin...the Wahabis of course consider Ibn Arabi a kafir!!!

#30

tahmed32, I agree that people should be able to elect thier leaders, or better yet, govern themselves.

I do not consider the BB or the NS experiments to be quite democratic really. And especially now, I wish there was a better alternative, there isn't, and it will probably be one of these people that gets elected. The future is not looking too rosy.

Plus the real problem is the fundamentalism that is spreading like a cancer. All this namazi hijabi bullshit ... we are living in a modern world and all our middle class is getting obsessed with is how much hair should be covered and how many nafals and sunnats to pray.

fundamentalism will destroy Pakistan. I hope we can revert to the tolerant sufi islam.

repectfully.
Thinking

#33 Posted by Naqshbandi

“Ummat pe teri aaj ajab waqt aan paRa hai”

Just a change of one word suffice here.

“Mullah pe teri aaj ajab waqt aan paRa hai”


Sir ji,
Hamidm wrote new Punjabi slang

banday non dheeth honra chaida !"

You think honor of the mullah would be restored, if Rashid Ghazi is brought back from the six feet under? (In his case probably 60 feet under?)

#30 Posted by tahmed32

“You mean - you like to hear that. Musharraf's downfall started the day he made a mockery of the democratic process.”

The sage, aka DM has a knack of making some profound statements. Since you have taken up this issue, I would refrain from adding more than two lines.

If you recall, the downfall of the poor Shah of Iran was also a result of his compliance of the human rights as outlined by dear Mr. Carter.

Btw, Musharraf’s democracy started in 2002…pretty long run for a person, who is supposed to be losing power because he started to promote democracy.

Re: # 33

naqshbandi,

""Ghairat baRi cheez hai jahaan e tag-o-do mein"

...... let me remind you that, "ghairat tey ani jani cheez ay, banday non dheeth honra chaida !"

echoboom bhai---you are 100% right. the most shameful thing about this whole episode is the way these so-called leaders of pakistan turn to the US like slaves when it is totally internal matter.

instead of BELIEVING in "La ilaha il Allah..." the kalimah of the Ooon-Poons is La ilaha il Amrika! It is so so sad!

What is the verse of Iqbal's, "Ghairat baRi cheez hai jahaan e tag-o-do mein"

When will our leaders learn to DO AS THEY WILL and not as OTHERS will.

This is what will happen to a qawm when they do sajadah to others besides Allah.

Ya Allah! Please send your Mahdi now! amin.

Ay Khaas e khaasaan e Rusul (alayhi afDalus salawat us salam), waqt e dua hai:
Ummat pe teri aaj ajab waqt aan paRa hai
Jo qawm baRi dhoom se niklee thii watan se
Aaj pardes mein voh ghareeb ul ghuraba hai!


Will NS/BB/Immy be better? When will that mard e mujaahid be the leader of pakistan who will do whatever he feels is right for PAKISTAN without caring about what the rest of the world thinks?!

dost mittar #29. Your point of not bringing up India-Pakistan bs is valid and I'll try to avoid that with a reasonable individual like you (with unreasonable individuals, of course, one does not need to bother trying to be reasonable if one chooses to waste time commenting on something they wrote). :-)

I still think you are unrealistic when it comes to recognizing the power of legitimacy vs the power of the gun. How long do you think Indira Gandhi could have held on if she tried to use force? In case of Musharraf - he would have used force if he thought he could get away with it. He tried that when he tried to bully the chief justice in giving him a rubber stamp "re-election", and failed. He tried again on May 12 and failed. If he tries to use it again in future, all bets are off on the results. So, maybe Musharraf knows something that you need to realize - brute force isnt going to keep him in power. Some form of legitimacy will - and that is why he is shuttling from islamabad to dubai trying to cut deals.

The ancient chinese sage realized this when he mentioned that rulers have a "mandate from heaven" - and that mandate is ultimately the voice of the people, the voice of God. And the holy prophet understood this when he said that the pen is mightier than the sword.

dost-mittar & almost every:

Is the ability to suffer fools inherent, acquired or a strategy to keep the fool on a long leash till he does himself in.
Is there an IQ test which can deteremine if a person is below even the minimum? ..Would that person understand what he is being tested for & therefore would it not be a "test" in the first place?

You ever noticed that most stupid people are invariably "polite" as well & and also have a simple staright forward sense of humour.

#29 "well said"

You mean - you like to hear that. Musharraf's downfall started the day he made a mockery of the democratic process.

dost_mittar.

re: musharraf's downfall when he sought democratic legitimacy

Well said.

tahmed32:

The point was very simple, and it had nothing to do with Pakistan, India or Inglistan (you should give up your habit of bringing India-Pak thingy on every issue). It is that a dictator's power arises out of complete control, which he can use for either good or bad. Since you brought India into the picture anyway, let me give an example from there: Indira Gandhi actually did something good during Emergency, enforced birth control on people against their will; even though it was in their own best interest, this was perhaps the single most important factor why Nathu Ram and Abdul Karim threw her out of her chair as soon as she decided to go democrat again and asked them for their approval.

#22 kya bat hain...how about the day he did bagal mein churi kargil when navaz sharif had moonh menin ram?

or when he conquered the TV station ..you distributed laddoos on the chowk?

THE REASON THERE IS NO HOPE IN A "POLITICAL PROCESS" IN PAKISTAN. THE REASON WHY IT IS THE RIGHT TIME TO INVEST IN THE BUSINESS OF GUILOTINE MANUFACTURING:


http://www.jang.com.pk/jang/sep2007-daily/03-09-2007/col 9.htm

SURRENDER MONKEYS

http://www.express.com.pk/images/NP_LHE/20070903/Sub_Images/110025529 2-2.gif

NA-PAK FOUJ & PAK POLICE NO MORE DARE COME IN THE PUBLIC IN THEIR UNIFORMS:

http://www.express.com.pk/images/NP_LHE/20070903/Sub_Images/1100255 317-1.jpg

#22 Posted by tahmed32 on September 3, 2007 8:47:46 am

prophetboy...pakiland has been ruled by the military for 33 of 60 years...even when it wasn't ruled by the military, the military pretty much called the shots...

there's paki-delusions..and there's reality..

DostMittar: you write "his (musharraf's) downfall started when he started to crave democratic acceptance"

Musharraf's downfall started the day he exposed his lack of integrity in holding the sham referendum, and continued as more and more people realized what a characterless man he is. Had he gone the way you recommend for dictators - that is to be ruthless with opposition, he would have discovered what Zia discovered when he tried this rout: that Pakistanis may not be loudmouthed self-promoters as is common among Indians, but they are no cowards or fools either as you assume. Thus: when Zia tried your route and started flogging journalists and putting loudspeakers in their faces (so the crowd may be intimidated by their cries of agony), the journalists shouted "Zia murdabad" instead. When Zia tried to implement his scheme to cut off hands of "thieves", he totally failed due to opposition from the medical community among others.

Read Ambassador Kux's book on Pakistan where he explains that having failed to implement his dictatorship behind the facade of Islam, Zia turned his attention to Afghanistan instead and created the Taliban.

Minhas saheb, you seem to be someone with real inside knowledge. However, I doubt that Nawaz will, at this point, agree to any conference in Gulf or London. He has been sounding increasingly self-assured and is in no mood to compromise, especially with those who dethroned him. He thinks that he is going to win, whether as ghazi (triumphant entrace to Punjab)or as shaheed (imprisoned on entry). If he comes to power, he would most likely try Musharraf for treason, that is if Musharraf still remains in Pakistan.

thinkingstorm#17:

You are right. I think that Musharraf as a dictator was quite successful, his downfall started when he started to crave democratic acceptance and called his referendum in 2002. He would have won the referendum at that time anyway, but compromised his reputation by rigging it. It has been a steady downfall since then. The moral of the story is that dictators should not try to be politicians.

Re: # 19

jayp,

........stop wandering over to the right side of the border if you don't want to end up as a kabob ..... have you applied yet ?

"Indian border guards are photographing cows in villages in the eastern state of West Bengal and issuing them with identity cards, officials say. "

p.s. i hate to point this out, but you are beginning to smell like masadi and the wrong end of a cow ...... get a job

Another budget item for the pak army

...ransom payments to kidnappers

Another Tiger Niazi in the making, two entire companies surrendered, i understand including a few colonels.. repeat of
bangladesh, this time in the west.

Slogan of the pak army, we surrender in the eats, we surrender in the west, we surrender anywhere.

There used to be a chowk interactor romair who was an officer in the pak army, where is he now when we need him to explain the valor of pak army

A matter of shame really, Pakistanis running all the time to the Saudi or some other Arabs to sort out their internal troubles, is this a sovereign republic or what? Why this so called round table cannot be convened in Islamabad, if all concerned are really keen on resolving the imbroglio? Strange! This time you sort it out in SA, have a new PM/Prez, another strongman seizes power, sends the incumbent in exile, obviously to Saudia. Have the Pakistanis pawned their soveignty to the Arabs? And one wonders is sending an incumbent PM/Prez in exile permitted in the Constitution?

Actually more was done for women rights and freedom of speech in Mushy's time than in either BB or NS times.

The democratically elected kuttay were afraid of mullahs and did not want to amend or repeal the hudood laws, so called foundation of Shariah. The hypocrites were busy lining thier pockets.

Mushy's term actually saw hudood laws amended (he was afraid to repeal them totally as well, but at least he had the courage to amend them).

The problem right now in Pakistan is one of fundamentalism sweeping the extremeties and moving towards the center.

Mushy is not well equipped to handle that as a great portion of his army supports the fundamentalism.

However BB and NS are non-starters against this threat.

So some of the people calling on the resignation of the so called cantonement kutta, are doing so under false pretenses. What kind of a democracy is it when it resembles more of a monarch with the bhuttos and the nawaz sharif (prodigal son of Zia).

Unless there is a third option, a new leader, (and please don't mention Cosmo Khan turned Conservative muslim), there is little hope of turning the tide around.

Hang on...the next decade or so is going to be very turbulent.

Why does the author think that the biggest general is out of options? If only he refuses to succumb to his obsession with occupying the sadarati kursi, which is not going to mean a whole lot in the next govt any way, he might yet discover that he is still very much in demand - not least by the so called champions of the "gharib awam".

Let him announce that he is stepping down, dissolving the assemblies, and calling for new elections. Let us see if the "Chauries of Gujrat" and the lotas in their party can hack it in free and fair elections? Honestly, if the agencies stayed out of it, neither them nor MMA can come anywhere close to repeating 2002.

Dokhtare-mashriq will have her hands full with the ex-tiger of Punjab, now a lion thanks to the new found hair transplant, and she may be amenable to come to some accomodation with mqm to at least secure Sindh, and a coalition at the center with other smaller parties. She may want to make use of the biggest general's good offices, not only to ensure that the agencies don't do a hatchet job on her party's vote, but also to keep mqm on-side. This might mean dangling the promise of a civilian sadarati kursi for him in the next dispensation, if he is amenable to helping her.

The biggest general is seemingly out of options only because, instead of wanting to be free, he would rather be a prisoner of the kursi and continue to shiver in his boots...

an informative essay based on sources.
All military dictators in Pakistan have shown consistency in their lack of knowledge of military-politico sociology in Pakistan, the latest being the embattled Mussarraf, Only if he had learned and cared to listen to those he side lined in due course.
His high 7 Point Agenda stands distorted and decimated as he makes a political mess in the murky waters of Dealing and Wheeler Dealing.
Is it not a shame that both Mush and Benazir focus on yet another term, and not resolving the outstanding issues that Pakistan faces?

Cliffy:
Let me share a real painful observation with you.

Who among us is not familiar with the stampede which occurs at Desi parties when announcement for food is made. This phenomena is unique ONLY to Indians & Pakistanis.

Now I can assure you that maybe 50 or maybe 80 years ago none of us were like that.

This single observation of carries within it a 1000 years of "reasearch" & "schlorship".

Those who do it are not the deprived ones. They are invariably our "respected" "parRhay-likhhay" & "professional" ones.

We used to, even as a joke, swing to two extremes.

One was the "pehlay aap ones" who were ridiculed about missing their trains.

the other ones were the ones who were so "adventurous" that
they boarded the train themselves instead of the ones who they came to see off at the station.

That SUMS up Pakistan of today & you know who won & who is always riding the trains now.

But I am more disturbed for Pakistanis , especially Muslims.

Forming a Queue is a cardinal requirement for these people during Namaz...& they do not practice it in daily lives.

They are painfully punctual for prayers & Ramzaan...& but in other affairs being on time is a joke with us.

" Jis qaum ko thhee chaar nikahoaN kee ijazat"

the other line is pretty vulgar..but 100% true.
__________________________________________________________

Al-Muntazar , Al-Muntazar..Imam Mehdi..I am Al-Muntazar

* nor i*

:) echo sahab i would love to eradicate all culture altogether from pakistan and the whole world. Culture itself smells to the high heavens. Phir bus naam rahe ga Allah ka (for us ...others may call it justice)! and may we all live in peace and justice from then on regardless of gender economics and religion.

So i take it neither you nor me are celebrating at this point ? :(

Cliffy:8
this got posted on another aa-tickle (aa Gud-gudee kar)
____________________________________________________________

Nawaz Kameen aur Baizameer CAN do nothing except try to prove more loyal to their White-Bhagwaan.

Pakistan needs a lancet to let the black-blood from its vein
flow out until the westoxicated poison is completely drained from its festering sores.

"tariay azaar kaa charaa naheeN nishtar kay sivaa"...Faiz said it long long time ago.

Until & Unless Fauji Foundation & Bahria are dismantled, NLC
( national logistics cell) the ones who issued tenders without competition for the bridge that was constructed 3 weeks a ago & collapsed & until & Unless all Cantonment Kuttaas Kennels called DEfense & Until &n Unless the Cantonment & Colonies are not turned over to those selling meat & groceries [the hardworking dhoti shalwaar huqquaa paan-wallaas, with mullah-looks] & at the ORIGINAL prices...

Until & Unless

Every sign & trace of Western "culture" must be eradicated to make the land Paak again.

We will keep working at the same salary.

abu may the future prove you right and me wrong ! hum bhi dekhain ge !

yarr pulya baji..at some level i share ur cinicism...bb especially i have no doubt is bad news..ns is moron..but his brother is a good admin..n they have some individuals in thier part that give an impression that they realize that the ppl of pakistan won't take it anymore..i cud be wrong but i reckon ns has some good ppl around him.

echo sahab and abu...do you think BB and NS are really going to stand up for pakistani autonomy? why? .... i have very very low expectations. If they dont run us into the ground again with rampant corruption negligence and theft like their prior stints i'll be grateful.
Its not only the military that has to be leashed in Pakistan...haq tu tub ho if most of the prior generation of politicians just died in their sleep. Useless pack of retarded dogs from what i remember ...what do you remember?
Echo sahab i am serious, please remind me what either NS and BB have ever done for our country because i am depressed out of my mind at the thought of having to see their theiving faces again. I am asking you because you are honestly smarter than me, and I could use some cheering up.

Chacha boom boom....beautiful words..very soon inshAllah..jab arzayy khuda kayy kabayy sayy sab butt uthwayeyy jayeingay..

Does any body know how much investment was made in this a.bomb business from the public account?

another things messers urstruly and boomboom..whoever replaces mushy, it's like putting a different leash on the same old dog..

Here we have nawaz promising to do what mushy is doing and more..which means there's no end to pakis being given a free vacation to club gitmo...

Terror war will be in safe hands, says Nawaz
‘Democratic govt can effectively fight terror with support of parliament’
WASHINGTON: The US-led war on terror will be in safe hands if democracy returns to Pakistan, exiled Pakistan Muslim League (PML-N) leader Nawaz Sharif said on Sunday as he prepares to defy the military regime by returning home.

“It’s very simple: we’re all against terror. I am against terror as much as anybody else in this world,” Nawaz told CNN from London. He recapped his “excellent rapport” with then US president Bill Clinton on fighting extremism before he was ousted as prime minister by President Pervez Musharraf nearly eight years ago.

“You can’t fight terror as the way Mr Musharraf is fighting. He needs the threat of terror for his own survival. We will fight out of conviction,” Sharif added. “So I think a democratic government can effectively fight terror with the support of parliament, with the support of the people of the country, which is of course not there with Mr Musharraf.”

#2 Posted by Urstruly on September 2, 2007 6:37:25 pm

YOu are not bangladeshis..the canine traits that echoboom decries are stronger in you people...

Take a look at this...allah's army hung AQK out to dry to save its own behind...

Book claims Pak N-plan threat to world peace

By our correspondent

LONDON: General Pervez Musharraf had agreed to arrest Dr A Q Khan only after striking a secret deal with US deputy secretary of state Richard Armitage in 2004 that his own army generals involved in illegal nuclear trade would not be touched and most importantly, that he himself would be accepted by the Americans to rule Pakistan in his military uniform.

Extracts from the book published by Sunday Times reveal that during Musharraf-Armitage meeting at Islamabad in 2004 it was agreed that A Q Khan and his aides would be arrested and blamed for “privately” engaging in proliferation. The country’s military elite – who had sponsored Khan’s work and encouraged sales of technology to reduce their reliance on American aid – was left untouched.

After this meeting between the two, the Americans decided to support Musharraf in uniform and Musharraf made A Q Khan confess his crimes on television. However, as part of the deal, Pakistan military generals who were members of Dr A Q Khan black market network since it started selling nuclear technology were not touched.

A senior Musharraf aide described it disingenuously as “the most embarrassing moment in the president’s life” – not because of the evidence but because he had felt Pakistan was on a long leash as it was integral to the Americans’ war on terror.

Urstruly:
Thanks.

It is a comfort to the eyes , that picture. A fauji being Kicked & the picture is splashed all across the wordld.

Here too the brilliant bengalis are far ahead of us. No wonder they have never been goray-kay-ghulaams...and kicked our na-paak fauj in the nuts in 1971.

When will our Cantonment Kuttaas start getting this overdue Kuttaa treatment they so much deserve.

Its a beautiful thing

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/south_asia/6966467.stm

Benazir is blogging on huffpost(the URL is interesting why I'm returning to paki??!!??)

her last line is the first step of meglomania...bilal mushlet of boston said the same thing when his old man took over in 1999..

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/benazir-bhutto/why-im-returning-to-paki_ b_62792.html

Why I'm Returning To Pakistan

I was looking forward to a quiet family holiday in New York this summer with my three children, our dog Maxmillian and my husband, who is being treated for a heart condition that developed while he was a political prisoner in Pakistan from 1996 to 2004. I thought we would go to the theatre and spend time walking in Central Park, as well meeting up with friends for nice, long chatty dinners. But in this surprisingly momentous summer of 2007, our quiet family vacation disappeared as we found ourselves caught up in the media attention on my country Pakistan, and its fast changing political situation.

It is clear to those following events in South Asia that Pakistan is truly at a turning point. Almost a decade of military dictatorship has devastated the basic infrastructure of democracy. Political parties have been assaulted, political leaders arrested, and the judicial system manipulated to force party leaders into exile. NGOs have been under constant attack, especially those that deal with human rights, democratic values and women's rights. The press has been intimidated, with some reporters -- even those that work for papers like the New York Times -- arrested, beaten or made to disappear. Student and labor unions have not been allowed to function. The electoral institutions of the nation have been manipulated by an Election Commission that could not stop rigging and fraud. And in the battle against terrorism, we look on with dismay as the government of Pakistan ceded sections of our nation that previously had been governed by the rule of law to Taliban sympathizers and to Al Qaeda, making Pakistan the Petri dish of the international terrorist movement.

But the most dangerous manifestation of this retreat from democracy has been a growing sense of hopelessness of the people of Pakistan, and a total disillusionment with the political system's ability to address their daily problems. The social sector has festered -- underfinanced and relegated to the back burner of national policy. All the indicators of quality of life have spiraled down, from employment to education to housing to health care. And as people's sense of disillusionment has grown, there has been a corresponding growth in the spread of religious and political extremism. The failure of the regime has made our citizens open to extra-governmental experimentation with fanaticism. This has clearly been manifest in the spread of politicized madrassas, schools in which the curriculum incorporates xenophobia, bigotry and often para-military terrorist training. But poor parents who cannot feed or clothe their children entrust them to these kinds of schools, so their children may be fed and housed.

The growth of the madrassas is but one important signal that extremism has been making inroads against moderation amongst the Pakistani polity. I have always believed that the battle between extremism and moderation is the underlying battle for the very soul of Pakistan. Yet moderation can prevail against the extremists only if democracy flourishes and the social sector improves the quality of life of the people. In 2007, I sensed that the decade of dictatorship was threatening to undermine the moderate majority of Pakistan, those people committed to pluralism, to education, to technology -- in other words, those committed to Pakistan taking its place among the community of civilized nations as a leader in the 21st century. Under democracy, the extremists had been marginalized in the past, never receiving more than 11% of the vote in an election. But under dictatorship, Pakistan was edging toward extremism, chaos, and sliding towards a failed state.

My party [the Pakistan Peoples Party] was engaged in a dialogue with the regime of General Musharraf, but discussions didn't move the regime concretely toward democratic reform. In the summer of 2007, after the reinstatement of the Chief Justice of Pakistan and the birth of judicial activism, the dialogue with General Musharraf took a more substantive turn. It seemed now that the country had an opportunity to peacefully transition to democracy, which is critical for the other war -- the war of moderation against extremism -- to succeed. I had a choice. Engage in dialogue, or turn toward the streets. I knew that street protests against the Musharraf dictatorship could lead to the deaths of hundreds. I thought about the choice before me very carefully. I chose dialogue; I chose negotiation; I chose to find a common ground that would unite all the moderate elements of Pakistan for a peaceful transfer to a workable political system that was responsive to the needs of the 160 million people of Pakistan whose empowerment is critical to the success of both governing and the fight against terrorism.

I know that some in Pakistan, including those in political parties were so embittered with the military regime that they wanted the door of dialogue shut. But from the very beginning my goal was and remains to guarantee a free and open electoral process that would provide for a legitimate Parliament and provincial assemblies that would then select, in a constitutional process, a civilian President who understands that in a parliamentary democracy, the parliament is supreme. I wasn't negotiating for a guaranteed outcome, I was negotiating for a guaranteed process. That was the goal at the beginning. That is the goal now. Are we making progress towards that goal? I still am unable to say. There are many elements, in particular those sympathisers in the ruling Party and Government who enabled the extremists and militants to expand their influence in my country who are fearful of the return of the PPP and a rollback of the terrorist forces that have gained strength since my government was overthrown in 1996. They want to scuttle a process that could see the emergence of a moderate Pakistan. So it has been a roller coaster ride. Some times the dialogue moves forward with General Musharaf . But then he consults his colleagues in the ruling alliance and retracts from confidence building measures promised for a fair electoral process.

As the presidential and parliamentary elections approach, I am making plans with my supporters to return to Pakistan. I know that it is critical for Pakistan to return to a democratic way of life so that the people's problems can be addressed. When people are partners with government, they stand up to defend their communities against terrorists, criminals and negative forces.

My stay in New York wasn't exactly the family vacation I had planned, but it was a critical period of weeks that could very well determine the future of Pakistan. I long ago realized that my personal life was to be subjugated to my political responsibilities. When my democratically elected father, Prime Minister Zulfiqar Ali Bhutto was arrested in 1977 and subsequently murdered, the mantle of leadership of the Pakistan Peoples Party, our nation's largest, nationwide grassroots political structure, was suddenly thrust upon me. It was not the life I planned, but it is the life I have. My husband and children accept and understand that my political responsibilities to the people of Pakistan come first, as painful as that personally is to all of us. I would like to be planning my son's move to his first year at college later this month, but instead I am planning my return to Pakistan and my party's parliamentary election campaign.

I didn't choose this life. It chose me.