Twin Blasts in Rawalpindi leaves 27 dead, 70 injured

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Lal Masjid: Lessons Learnt - #27 Posted by zeemax on July 27, 2007.

No truer words said ...

"Geo: What will happen if there's an operation and you are martyred?

Ghazi: It will be very bad. Islamabad will become Baghdad."

http://www.chowk.com/interacts/12388/1/0/200

Re: # 2

Kindly change your name to Mohammed Saeed al-Sahaf aka "Comic Ali".

"The infidels are committing suicide by the hundreds on the gates of Baghdad... Be assured, Baghdad is safe, protected. Iraqis are heroes."

"Saddam Hussein's soldiers and his great forces gave the Americans a lesson which will not be forgotten by history. Truly".

#2 by zeemax

No truer words said ...

"Geo: What will happen if there's an operation and you are martyred?

Ghazi: It will be very bad. Islamabad will become Baghdad."

Just a couple of blasts and you're already comparing Islamabad with Baghdad?

Re: # 4
We should rather compare Pakistan with Iraq instead of isl with baghdad..Last few mnonths, Pakistan has seen many such bloody blasts at regular intervals...almost same like in Iraq.

Harishbhai,

"Islamabad banega Baghdad" is Maulana Zeemax (RA)'s favourite fantasy. With citizens like him, no nation needs enemies.

Regards

forget all the other headlines. This one from the bbc is the real take note: "garrison town" not Rawalpindi!

Blasts hit Pakistan garrison town

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/south_asia/6977274.stm

ammendment: Killed number has risen to 31, while officials still claim that 29 have died out of which 11 are civilians and others are officials working for ministry of defence. Since I had posted this story soonafter coming back from the spot and at that time the number of dead was 27, so read it 31 now. thanks and pls keep your comments more constructive though you are absolutely free to draw your own conclusions and speak your own mind. regards
sm

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Like a true pakistani general, it is busy time for mushy. He is busy working out the surrender terms with benazir and no problems, he can add another team also from waziristan. It is all part of the pak military training and tradition.

Romair, where are you, give some insight into the pak military training. Where is YLH with his quotes about pak airforce by chuck Yaeger.

The true colours of the pak military is visible now, 300 hundred surrendered to a group of 30 tribals.

Mushy is totally responsible for the killing of army men by the tribals. It is his back flip on the taliban responsible, if he had not done that the americans would have bombed the wziris and there would have been no issue now. Nothing can beat the tribals like daisy cutters as it did in the tora bora and they moved to waziristan.

Mushy should call the yanks, and nothing like shehdad delivered by B52s.

It is a sad day for peace-loving people everywhere. My condolences to the family members of those who were killed.

Now Musharraf sahib has an excuse to declare 'Emergency' against the Supreme Court, against Benazir's 'deal' and Nawaz's homecoming -- and self coronate himself again for another 5 years. What timing!

zeemax, you are hasty and very quick with your asessment - I feel - IMHO.

Bibi going back
Awaz Shareef-Badmash returning unwelcome
no certainty of his continuing

emergency or no emergency

think you need to wait for a few days before you say such things.

think of the blood being shed. OTOH you seem to wallow joyously at the thought of blood on the streets so I guess you saying #2 #9 etc are slightly below par by your standards.

Re: # 13

you got in there ahead nasah....but i think you might be more on the money here than our friend zeemax aunty!

#14 Posted by Dash_Dot,

Dear DashDot Saheb, all I'm saying is that when they stormed the Jamia Hafsa, they weighed the odds and thought they'ld be able to contain the blowback. Now they find they can't and that Ghazi was telling the truth all along.

Got it now?

nasahji#13:

Mush would be stupid to do that. In the current environment, imposition of Martial Law would invariably bring emboldened crowds bring crowds onto the streets; if he orders the army to fire on the crowds, the ranks are likely to rebel, a chance he cannot afford to take. He still might do it, but a better alternative for him will be to read the writing on the wall, hand over the baton to someone else (NSC?) and go on a Vanwaas to the new Sone Ki Lanka, i.e, the US of A.

#17 Posted by dost_mittar,

Actually, someone should tell us exactly what difference any emergency or martial-law rule can make in the handling of the insurgency in Waziristan (head scratching) ...

... i.e. what would martial-law/emergency enable which the government isn't doing right now ...

zee#19:

I am surprised that you asked this question. It will suspend fundamental rights, it will suspend the Supreme Court activism and it would end the press freedom and it could suspend all political activity. The problem is that the awaam have tasted their power and are not going to take it.
BTW, it won't make any difference in Waziristan and the tribal areas.

zeemax,

.... so your wildest wet dreams are coming true ? ... when do you see this islamic revolution being completed ? .... what is the buzz around your cell network ?

#20 Posted by dost_mittar,

BTW, it won't make any difference in Waziristan and the tribal areas.

Exactly. Still surprised at why I asked the question? It was to point out the ignorance of those people who think this can be a pretext for emergency rule.

#21 Posted by hamidm2,

.... so your wildest wet dreams are coming true ? ...

Not till I see you off at the guillotine park :)

dost-mittar perhaps you over-estimate the pak_janta!

I feel martial law/emergency and the lid would be on for a few months. The imposition would come as a surprise - if done right now then the parties are prepared and the outcome would perhaps be as you suggested.
OTOH waiting for some more blood to be shed and hitting a few more defence/armed personnel there might be a clamour for this from the middle classes (remember the middle classes in pakistan are a venal lot - we see that on chowk the number of times there has been a volte-face (romair and YLH are two such examples)

Re: # 22
dost and zeemax what is to stop Mushy and the us using daisy-cutters there after an ultimatum?

Nothing - and there will not be more than a handful of souls who will complain or can do anything.

Mark my words if really required the pak army can do it. but so far it serves their vital interests (as perceived by the army) to hold them at arms length with their fingers on their nostrils.

Dash_Dot#25:

"dost and zeemax what is to stop Mushy and the us using daisy-cutters there after an ultimatum?"

The US doesn't need an Emergency to do so, but I don't think that they would as long as Mush or a compliant regime in Islamabad is to be supported.

But for the Pak army to do so, the people of Pakistan have to be more angry with the tribals than with the regime in Islamabad. I don't think that this is so now, but is more likely if a new regime is in place.

Re: # 21hamid choora

(((so your wildest wet dreams are coming true ?)))

Zee's widest dream of having ''ice cream'' is coming true.

Zee

Don't forget to give me my share and the empty bucket to abu_safwaan

philosopher: does calling someone a "choora" lower that person? No. Is a "choora" not as worthy as a perfumed maulvi or a bejewelled landlord? No.

All it shows is that you are a victim of the corrupt, de facto casteist culture of Pakistan!!

This appears to be a celebration in anticipation of Sharif/Bhutto arrival. The bottomline is that the corrupt Army of Pakistan is paying by getting its due. When an innocent Pakistani is killed, it is a sad day for the nation, when a Army dog is whacked, it is time to celebrate. May the Army of Pakistan be eaten by pigs, even thought Army meat is haram.

kulharee: Sitting comfortably in New York, your expressing joy at the death of people going to work in Pakistan (never mind the damned politics) is very disappointing. How are you any better than the maulvis who hounded the community you so strongly identify with (Ahmedis) in Pakistan?

Itna gussa Pakistani army per? Does not it save
you guys from horrible Hindus? Does it not save
you from buri nazar of horrible hindus?
Kuch to socha karo Pakistaniyon!

(#3) T Saab, first of all, what is it Pak Army’s business to be in the Tribal Areas (an autonomous region, only administratively part of Pakistan). I honestly hope that you are familiar with Pakistani constitution and all. Are we in some kind of “War” with our neighbors or whatnot? I think you see things thru a very simplistic paradigm.

Kul:

I agree with tahmed on this one. What is the fault of the poor soldiers or others working for the army? These were people being taken in a bus, so they were not even upper echelons of the army. The soldiers are only doing their duty, are they not?

According to reuters, the bus that was attacked, was carrying Pak Atomic Energy Commission employees to work. It is not clear though that the people who have been jaaN bahak'd were uniformed personnel or civilians or a mix of both.

In any case it is sad state of affairs that all armed forces vehicles that go into public places, like colonol sahib's governt issue jeep, hauling sabzi from market and kids from school, have been painted civilian colors and civilian number plates have been assigned to them. And then this depite everything...

Dost Ji, Do you think that the Nazis were doing their duty as well.

#32 Kulharee sahib: These are political issues. They have nothing to do with expressing joy at the death of people (fathers, brothers, husbands - trying to earn a living in conditions that you will never see in New York). Like I said, "never mind the damn politics".

Kul#35:

Not the Nazis, but the German soldiers were. In any case, what choice do the poor soldiers have? if they disobey, they can face court martial.

#26 Posted by dost_mittar

The US doesn't need an Emergency to do so, but I don't think that they would as long as ...

If the daisy cutters could not eliminate Afghan Taliban, what makes anyone think these could eliminate the 'Pakistan Taliban'?

I'm still incredulous as to how so many people, even well-experienced and well-read like yourself Sir, find it so difficult to make the distinction that bombs can kill an army, but not a 'movement'.

Where lies the problem in such an understanding?

Re: # 33
without getting into the morally right or wrong of the issue, if we only look at the strategy being employed, I think that is the standard operating procedure of any gorrilla insurgency i.e. throw the wrench into the very machinery that actually works to get the results. The top brass, or the so called "the brain" (which is always safe) can do squat if there is no viable machine to carry out their plans and orders. Iraq was the first place to test this strategy, and it is working with incredible efficiency against the world's largest and most fearsome war machine. This strategy has actually made the said war machine sputter and smoke in the most humiliating way.

Dost Ji, if their biggest fear is to face a Court Marshal, they should by all means go and kill all those who speak ill of Pak Army – well they have been doing it since the creation of the filthy state of Pakistan. As-holes killed Bugti Sahib, an unknown number of people in Lal Masji Saga. Hundreds are disappeared with no trace. And you are telling us that they are doing their job? I don’t disagree with you, they are trained to do that (religiously and professionally) to kill the people who pay their salary.

zeemax#38:

"I'm still incredulous as to how so many people, even well-experienced and well-read like yourself Sir, find it so difficult to make the distinction that bombs can kill an army, but not a 'movement'."

Where did I say that it will kill the movement?

#41 Posted by dost_mittar,

If you don't think so, then the question of anyone having a choice to use or not to use daisy cutters is moot. They haven't worked in Afghanistan and these certainly will not work on the other side of the Durand Line.

Tahmed sahib,

(does calling someone a "choora" lower that person?)

And I thought we Hanud Injuns were the only casteist racist lot in the world.

Regards

Urstruly#3p:

Pakistan is not Iraq, at least not yet! These are not new soldiers recruited by a government imposed by foreigners. [unless you can show that NS was ousted with American help]. Pakistan is unique and the course of events that take place there will also be unique. Unfortunately, too many variables are involved here for anyone - and that includes the US and the Pakistani fauj - to predict the outcome.

But I must say that Pakistan is the most exciting 'happening' place right now, and you may see the most prominent journalists making a beeline for Islamabad in the coming weeks and months.

#34 Posted by Urstruly,

The occupants of the bus were all uniformed personnel. Footage was shown of military caps and shoulder pips strewn around.

Though its true that these people were small fry and a lot of innocent bystanders got killed. A more plausible target would have been the Zarrar Battalion of the 111 Brigade. Perhaps it will come in due course but come it will ...

Zeemax sahib,

Even if they were all armymen they were mostly small fries- people who had wives and kids and in likelihood sole breadwinners. What wud be achieved by killing them? If they really want to do something, they shud take out someone big, I am sure even ordinary Pakistanis wouldn't object.

Regards

#46 Posted by majumdar,

If they really want to do something, they shud take out someone big

I see. You mean like they should take out a bunch of burqa clad rebellious school girls with white phosphorous.

Above goes for you too tahmed32, who is busy shedding crocodile tears for some morons who had it coming (just like the ninja chicks had it coming ... remember?)

As you sow, so shall you reap, and reap, and reap, and so on.

Re: # 47

zeemax,

.... i wish they had taken out all the burqa clads to prevent them from breeding more suicidal jihadis who will come back to haunt us one day .....

..... anyway, after talking it over, gul zaman and i have decided to change our decision and vote for bb instead of ns ...... we think that bb will do a better job of going after the extremists and eliminate their breeder stocks .....

#48 Posted by hamidm2,

Sure. That suits me fine as long as there are enough fresh and supple breeders of pimps moving in from Michigan.

This is the first step, inshallah you will see soon some mujahid mard e momin takeover over the nuc weapons and then a nuc suicide attack on the Kafirs. Shadat hi asl imaan hai.

So Zeemax is happy that these criminals would turn Islamabad in to Baghdad! That is sick!

It is just speculation right now but one thing seems clear that it was not a suicide bomber and that rules out the Pathan Criminals from the tribal areas.

If It was a timing device, it was planted when the buses were parked with in the cantonment areas so it maybe an inside job.

Lastly and that is a strong possibility; with the amount of sophistication in picking the targets and the planning behind it, perhaps it is RAW responding to the Hyderabad blasts that the Indians blamed on ISI.

Strangely, in Hyderabad there were two bombs and in Pindi the response was exactly two bombs. Some Islamic outfits in Pakistan are perhaps infiltrated!

May this marde e momin come from within the army, or may the army assist him, isse Pak fauj ke gunah dhul jayenge aur murtid o munafiq ke daagh se bach jayenge

#51 Posted by HP

You guys are all idiots. Can't you see I've been saying again and again that this was the inevitable and well foreseen consequence of the heavy handedness displayed in the Jamia Hafsa op? Now that it's come true, you think it is sick? How much do you know about the Hafsa and the TNSM/ Waziristan / Bajaur / Swat connection?

But never mind, your analytical capabilities became quite clear when you termed CJ a corrupt judge and the reference against him well-founded - and were reinforced when you further reaffirmed you still hold that view :)

Zeemax sahib,

(You mean like they should take out a bunch of burqa clad rebellious school girls with white phosphorous.)

I don't remember ever having said that killing a bunch of burqa clad girls with white phosphorus (whatever that stuff is) was great thing to do.

It is sad that thinking people shud applaud innocent people dying irrespective of their affiliations.

HP sain,

No point in blaming Injuns (whether it is the bunch of idiots called RAW or the maha idiot Hindu racist, casteist, bigoted, misogynist freak) for your own homegrown tumour.

Regards

heya zee, please cease and dissist from your savage acts of violence, especially against blameless oysters and lemons... is there not enough misery in the world :(

#55 Posted by cliftonbridge,

LoL ... Hiya ..

BTW raw Oysters with Neembus nichoRed on top are heavenly ... and the aftermath is even heavenlier (thumbs up)!!!

#54 Posted by majumdar

Arrey Bhai .... watch my lips:

PEOPLE DIE IN WARS ... SO DON'T PICK ONE !

Zeemax sahib

(PEOPLE DIE IN WARS ... SO DON'T PICK ONE ! )

I believe in the dictum, make luv not war. But if I have to pick a war I wud pick the one that is going on now- Muslimooooooooons against the Kanjarooooooons in Pak. At least we kaffiroooooooons from across the border will be safe till u guys have acocunted for each other.

Regards

#54 Posted by majumdar
"For your own homegrown tumor."

Homegrown tumor does snot work in isolation. Per Indians the Indians groups are connected to the ISI. so, possibly some Islamic groups in Pakistan are connected to RAW too. That is something that can never be overlooked. The more I look at it, the more it appears to be a handy work of professionals.

There are many groups in Pakistan that can do it but mostly likely RAW is behind it. Responding to the Hyderabad blasts.

#53 Posted by zeemax
"Can't you see I've been saying again and again that this was the inevitable and well foreseen consequence of the heavy handedness displayed in the Jamia Hafsa op?"

Turning Isloo in to Baghdad is different than responding to the army. You are completely sick if you don't understand what is happening in Baghdad. These Mullahs are criminals for even syaing something like that. The mullah in Jamia Hafasa were involved in criminal activities and the army gave them six months to shape up. You think criminals are allowed to rule the country because they are promising to turn Islamabad in to Baghdad?

You are sick!

HP sain,

There may be a point in what u r saying. But somehow good Muslimooooons working hands in gluvs with Hanuds just somehow does not ring true. If I am not mistaken even the GoP hasn't blamed the RAW till now.

Besides RAW is a bunch of idiots and good for nothing except predicting election results which they get wrong anyways.

Regards

#59 Posted by HP,

Okay let's walk through this argument:

"The mullah in Jamia Hafasa were involved in criminal activities."

Which criminal activity were they involved in for starters? Vigilantism against illegal sexual material and prostitution? Is that a criminal activity?

People routinely beat up and lock up thieves when found in their neighbourhoods. They did nothing more than that.

Occupation of the library? No more than a protest sit-in.

Demands to rebuild the mosques? Implementation of the Sharia as guaranteed in the constitution? That's criminal?

Storing arms? Sure they saved them all so they wouldn't get the shine off the rocket launchers for the photo sessions later, and held off the commandos for ten days with exactly 14 Kalashnikovs.

You're a tiny moron. Not even a hefty one :)

#60 Posted by majumdar

“But somehow good Muslimooooons working hands in gluvs with Hanuds just somehow does not ring true.”

There tons on good Muslims who work with Hindus in India and Pakistan both. That is just a ridiculous argument. Indian history is replete with such cooperation. Are you denying the history? Second, RAW is an Indian agency or are you suggesting that it is a Hindu agency?

Zeemax,
You are just trivializing the issue. Go back to some archives and see what those MCs were saying and doing. Taking control of the government property for six months is enough cause for the government to take actions. These guys were showing guns and beating up people.

Who killed the army officers and Jawans, if there were no arms in the Lal Mosque?

#62 Posted by HP,

Who killed the army officers and Jawans, if there were no arms in the Lal Mosque?

Read #61. They had 14 sniper-positioned Kalashnikovs with which they held off the commandos for ten days. Ghazi admitted that several times on live television.

Also watch the photo on my profile. The two guys you see are from Waziristan who brought their AKs with them.

Re: # 62

hp,

.... i think you are missing zeemax's point ... he is saying that the denizens of lal masjid were simply asking for the implementation of the sharia as called for by the constitution ..... the government, according to zeemax, is infidel and illegal and therfore the citizens of the islamic republic are duty bound to take up arms against it ......... he does have a point .... it seems that the muslimoons have drawn a line in the sand and are ready for a bloody battle with the kanjaroons ..........

#64 Posted by hamidm2,

Hamidm, this is exactly correct. Thanks for clarifying my view which seems muddled to so many here for some reasons. Just for this, please accept my humble apology for any previous untoward remarks towards you!

hamidm, I truly think that Pakistani Islamists are being too gentle, being hamstrung by their understandable love of land, and their overly humanly regard for their neighbors. If they adopted the same methods they have in Baghdad (and the difference is entirely make-believe), they can implement and enforce the constitution much quicker.

Were I a Pakistani Islamist, I would actually join with HP (or have some Islamist friends join with HP) and focus on blaming the RAW, CIA, MOSSAD, and KGB, while get to work at home implementing the sharia by all necessary means.

... except for one thing ...

The Muslimoons didn't draw the line, the Kanjaroons did when they killed 1200 mostly orphaned or unclaimed schoolgirls (those were all who remained in the end) with chemical weapons and buried the skeletons in mass graves, and then demolished the building to hide all evidence, and even the demolished debris is closely guarded till this very moment. A petition is pending by the survivors to allow access.

Shariah and its associated books and pamphlets died when Mullah tried to escape persecution in Burka. What kind of example did he set for coming generations of Shariatees? May Allah’s curses be upon him. A Musliman never hides behind a Burka like a pussy.

Re: # 64hamid meerasi

((((it seems that the muslimoons have drawn a line in the sand and are ready for a bloody battle with the kanjaroons))))

Good one Meeday...so who are you gonna support? Kanjroons or Muslimoons.

#61 Posted by zeemax on September 4, 2007 8:40:28 am


Which criminal activity were they involved in for starters?


The crime of not having the bigger guns...in a might is right world, that is a serious crime..

#51 Posted by HP on September 4, 2007 8:04:13 am


Strangely, in Hyderabad there were two bombs and in Pindi the response was exactly two bombs.


Nice try...but there were more than two bombs in h'bad. two went off.

Kaal:

"Were I a Pakistani Islamist, I would actually join with HP (or have some Islamist friends join with HP) and focus on blaming the RAW, CIA, MOSSAD, and KGB, while get to work at home implementing the sharia by all necessary means."

Too old fashioned and you have not been listening ... even to those in chowk. The 'greater' problem has been determined to be internal. Oons have been defined and the line is being drawn. I too hope that people like HP and manto succeed and I do not mind them blaming India. But I sincerely believe that it is a bit too late. Logic, persuation, morality, guile, diplomacy ... all are out. People are being summoned to do their 'duty'. It is very very sad. Pakistan is not and never was a bannana republic. It is not and never was a failed state. But if fair elections are not implemented asap all bets are off. And if it is war, then let us be very pragmatic and recognize that it will spill over onto India ... or is it already spilling over?

zeemax: lal masjid maulvis did not protest against "disappeared" persons. instead, they contributed to the problem by doing exactly the same thing themselves when they kidnapped three women (one with child) from their home and declared them prostitutes.

Fascists are fascists - whether religion, ethnic or military. And all you are doing is supporting one form of fascism.

#70 Posted by arjun2,

You know something? You're actually right sometimes!

GT #72: Bomb blasts kill innocent people. They dont topple governments. The maulvis are too stupid to understand that. The real power struggle in Pakistan has nothing to do with maulvis.

There are many groups in Pakistan that can do it but mostly likely RAW is behind it. Responding to the Hyderabad blasts.


--
This was my first impression when I heard abt it.

We have Muslim fifth columinists in India to work for ISI or its cohoots like LeT, JuD etc., but Pak Muslims working for RAW - IF THIS'S TRUE - is something u Pakistanis shud worry abt.

#72 Posted by GT,

I think it will all work out fine, as long as no deal is done (there's news that a deal between BB/musharraf has been concluded today) and NS is not arrested on his return. If either or both of the above occur, the bombs in the capital will keep going off with carefully timed spaces in between so as not to invoke an Israeli style disproportionate response.

VRV: Sorry to disappoint you, but RAW is not taken seriously in Pakistan by even the conspiracy theory lovers (HP is the only one here who mentioned RAW).

#73 Posted by tahmed32,

"disappeared" persons...doing exactly the same thing themselves when they kidnapped three women...

But the prostitutes didn't disappear, did they? :)

zee

I deplore the way the govt. handled Jamia Hafsa, especially since they themselves allowed the guns etc to be taken into the complex. I also dont agree with Jamia hafsa peeps when they took the law into their own hands, the peeps who built the mosques throughout the city illegally should not have done so especially since the mosques had to be shaheed/knocked down, building mosques is not a game, it is an organised and sacred activity.

Also what would be your reaction if a few people participated in a 'sit - in' in an Islamic library demanding Secular law and Pakistan remove 'Islamic' from its title? You would not give in obviously! Why should some one elses Islam be imposed on the whole nation esp if they dont want it, we have already experimented with Islam and each time its been a major mess up.

But to express glee and happiness at the death of employees who are trying to support a family is nothing short of sick. Is there that much hatred in you that this makes you happy? Regardless of what you say, the negativity you feel towards your own country ppl and what those bombers did cannot be called Islam or anything similar, it is sheer terrorism just like the IRA.

At least with Arjun we know where we stand, but you are a Pakistani, with ppl like you in our country Arjun seems like a friend, and we dont need dushman. Cehennem will be filled with bearded ones and burka clads. I rememebr as a child being told a Hadith 'do not trust the mualvis of the 14th Islamic century' or something similar, know i now the Holy Prophet (saw) was right...

you and your ilk have left the muslimoon and become the kanjaroon... May Allah show you the path and guide you to righteousness and humanity, and lift you from the depths of hate you currently dwell in - Ameen!

And having met ONE guy of coofi variety by accident (in the last 8 yrs) I can vouch for what MAJumdar said abt them; they are useless class X-pass types. India needs better guyz in such jobs. That idiot sang a lot abt Pakistan to a stranger like me. I dont have faith in Indian agencies as professionals.

Mr. Ahmed,

These are working assumptions.

With a-bombblast-a-day in Pakistan it cud be anybody's job.

We'd never know abt this chess-game of trading corpses btw India and Pakistan.

tahmed sahib:

I am with you. But please do listen to what people are saying. People are being killed all over. And these killings have been and are being justified. When militants kill in Kashmir it is for freedom or 'informers' are being killed. When the state kills 'militants' it is to safegaurd civilians. The hafza girls were 'terrorists' and the tribals simply collateral damage. Don't you understand? It is like when my side kills it is OK when your side does it is not. We are being drawn to take sides and we are behaving like mute beasts moving in herds towards our respective 'sides' in a looming war. .... And make no mistake the line being drawn is through the medium of innocent lives .... that is how it is done.

GT, that was just a dig at my friend HP, whose vision (for Pakistan) I, as a non-Muslim, support (although I suspect for him to push zee's Islamists completely back is going to be a bit hard, particularly if, in a couple of years, nawaz sharif is able to work cooperatively with Islamists).

About spill over into India, the ONLY option Indians have, if they are serious about themselves to the smallest extent, to expect and be prepared for the 'worst' from all sides (that should be a strategy for everyone). As you said, the loss of lives is inevitable (or has it always been so?). So the only question remains, how to minimize the loss important to oneself.

Re: # 80

None of the demolished mosques were illegally built. It is all this kafir government's propaganda. Masjid Amir Hamza was built before even Pakistan came into existence and Islamabad was just a little village of mud huts. Lal Masjid was established by Ayub Khan himself and he himself appointed Moulana Abdullah, the father of Ghazi brethern as its head at the recommendation of Quai-e-Azam's close companion Allama shabbir ahmad usmani.

It is because of these shameless lies and then senseless massacre of school children of Jamiah Hafsa and Jamiah Faridiah that the backlash is so vicious and unforgiving. Come to think of it, the students of both schools were no more than 8th, 10th, and 12th graders. Where the fuck were the human rights organizations when 2000 of these innocent children and human beings were being mercilessly incinerated with phosphorus based napalms. Every person who raises the slogan of moral issue of attacks against na-pak fouj should drwon himself in the handful of their own piss - as the urdu proverb goes.

#80 Posted by Ally,

Why should some one elses Islam be imposed on the whole nation esp if they dont want it, we have already experimented with Islam .... blah blah ...

Bhai, this question is not even open for discussion. It was decided back in 1948 with the preamble to the constitution which says "All sovereignty belongs to Allah, and Allah alone", and The source of all laws is defined as Qura'an and Sunnah.

Have you any idea about the Pakistan constitution??? No?

Please contact mantolives.

Everyone calling this kanjaroon/muslimoon is wrong ...PREDOMINANTLY pakistani MUSLIMS do not believe in forcing strict shariah and at the same time do not believe in killing people who are unarmed.

Its actually kanjar fundoo vs kanjar secular out there, with honest liberal MUSLIMS and fundamentalist MUSLIMS caught in the cross fire (even if just a rhetorical one).

The jawans are not fair targets at all. The ones amongst them who dutifully torture people on command must be distinguished from the ones who simply are trying to defend the STATE and the NATION against people who are attacking it (for whatever higher calling).

Bottom line remains that when you encouraged people to fight the war that the army should have fought ..if infact it was woth fighting...than you have created a monster that needs to be dealt with in a political manner and not by force. You don't suppress even a small minority by millitary might in your own country, let alone the maddarsa crowd in a country like pakistan.

Urstruly bhai..there were def. encroachments and Islam doesn't allow that no matter what the purpose is..u know it n i know it. But to thier credit they did offer market price for it..but by then the sellers werent paki. govt it was white house n they didnt wanted to sell.

What they have done in lal masjid and the manner in which they have slaughtered boys n girls as young as 6-7 will have a lasting affect on the psyche of the society at large..n we are in for a bumpy ride..i don't see how that could be good for the country..i dont know how you correct the travesty of slaughtering innocent kids..but maybe n just maybe..army's removal from power should be the first step on the road of redemption.

ursturly

no one was jumping up and down with glee when the jamia kids were killed with that horrible phosphate stuff and govt had mass graves... even the most ardent secularoon was well pissed with fauj, but why do ppl like zee jump up and down with joy when other (God fearing and innocent) ppl are killed, just because one doesnt support extremes or a radical pov doesnt mean you can kill that person... there is NO justification for ANY death like this...

zee

"All sovereignty belongs to Allah, and Allah alone"

And what dont you think i beleive that? I dont care if its in Pak Constn or not i beleive that anyways. But i also belive that, that very same Allah has given me free will to interpret my faith, and to question and not just accept.

#87 Posted by cliftonbridge

kanjar fundoo vs kanjar secular out there, with honest liberal MUSLIMS and fundamentalist MUSLIMS ...

... and in which bracket does your humble servant reside? :)

Re: # 89

Your observation is quite incorrect. Just on this website many ( i stress on the word many) people who claim to be pakistani were jumping up and down with glee - and trust me I am not refrring to hindus or mirasis like #48; they were all who appear sane under normal cricumstances. Bezamir was quite candid when she said that "mujhe lal masjid operation se khushi hoi hay". This is what this bitch barked when shattered bodies of innocent children were still being retrieved from the cinders of lal masjid.

Abu sufwan:

Not only does army has to be caged back into cantonment kennels but there will be a major operation clean up involving exceutions of military personnel through firing squads who were invoved in the treason and crimes against the people of Pakistan for the past 8 years. This is a tall order but unfortunately that is the only logical conclusion of what has been set in motion after the masacre of school children.

An excerpt from the Urdu press (which the kanjaroons would not have seen) of an interview of Umme-Hassaan upon her release, but which will greatly benefit the Kanjaroons to ponder over the kind of commitment they're up against:

- On the killing of her 4 year old son: " They were all my children".

- On not being handed over the body of her son: "Even if they had given me his body, I would have returned it to the earth. It doesn't matter.

- On losing her platform (i.e. Jamia Hafsa): "The building was not the platform. We don't need any buildings. We are here. The platform is intact".

1. The army personnel are scared shit these days to go out in uniform.

So for ONE uniform to be kept, the entire army has to take-off their uniforms.

2. Whosoever were the personnel in the bus we might never know, but the bus belonged to the MINISTRY OF DEFENSE. It could be that army was being moved in that bus. Military vehicles are not safe on the streets anymore.

3. This "suicide bombing" stunt which gets reported is totally FALSE. Every "suicide" bombing is the work of the Government in cahoots with the US. ONly PALESTINIANS & Afghanis have been conducting suicide attacks for the right reasons...they have something to GAIN or their lives have been reduced to the level that they feel justified to go to such lengths.

What happens is that those languishing in jails & "forgotten", those "disappeared", those on drugs are given a promise & they are sent into thse "crowded areas", "targets"
about which they have no clue. They are harnessed with tyhe gear & are given a task to take the "package" & leave it & in return they will be rewarded with the promise of freedom, release or drug.

& then he is blown up by remote.

There is a whole lot of difference between what happens & what gets reported.

The old-fashioned classical way to ANALYZE is still the best....

1. MOTIVE...& who benefits in WORLDLY MATERIAL ways
2. The method...& the ease of implementing
3. The quick stock answers which arrive IMMEDIATELY after only by those who have been given the task to defend the nation. As if the reast of the nation is "THEM" & these thieves are covering their bloodied tracks.
___________________________________________________________

The war against the Kanjaroons by both Muslims & Hindoos
was started a few years before 1857 & has never stopped.

It is the US-Aids ridden Kanjaroons , like the two Cantonments Kuttaas here, who have a deep disdain for both hindus & muslims and are in an orgasmic delight to support the United Satans.

The muslims of undivided India, the ones who were NOT westoxicated, the giant scholars from the Madressas, were committed to jointly fight , shoulder to shoulder, alongwith their hindu neighbors & brethren to kill & destroy the British Babboons.

It was the westoxicated ones, the Baba Blacksheep, the Cantonment Kuttaas, the toataa mainaas, & the crows, the jackals, the vultures & the hyenass in english dress who hated the mullahs the maulaanas & the maulvis...& they are continuing to this day.

One glance at the number of mullahs, maulvis, & maulanas in the army of that great HINDU leader of muslims and hindus combined to get rid of the boboons would be sufficoient to learn this lesson to guide us in our future course of events.

"
Jis dhuJ say koi maqtal mein gaya vo shaan salamat rehti hai
yeh jaan toa aani jaani hai,iss jaaN kee toa koi baat naheeN
"
..................FAIZ:

the ones without ghairat, the ONLY TWO resident kanjaroons,
will not be able to understand & appreciate the above sentiments.

Re: # 17

of course you are right about the paper tiger mitter ji -- now meet the new Queen of the Quislings!

Re: # 93

zeemax,

..... this might sound harsh, but with a mother like this monster, the poor kid would probably have grown up to be a suicide bomber anyway ...... he is better off dead ....ina lillahay

zee ...main ye parda utthana nahin chahtee ....you are no kanjar thats for sure ....but you know which camp you actually belong too ... and i know too :) tum chahe jo kaho ;)

#96 Posted by hamidm2,

Maybe, or maybe not. Who knows? Maybe he would have become a great leader. But that's all academic now. Isn't it?

Inna Lillah ... indeed.

#97 Posted by cliftonbridge,

LoL ... bata doa yaar ... ;-)

"
There tons on good Muslims who work with Hindus in India and Pakistan both. That is just a ridiculous argument. Indian history is replete with such cooperation. Are you denying the history? Second, RAW is an Indian agency or are you suggesting that it is a Hindu agency?"

This is Whack!!!

Can you give me one example of Islamic fundamentalists teaming up with India? RAW is an Indian Agency - not a Hindu one - agreed. But do the Islamic Fundamentalists look at it like that? Do they even look at India as an equal opportunity, all religion respecting nation that they would team up with that? And if fundamentalist Muslims do indeed look at India in such a good manner that they are willing to cooperate with it to undermine Pakistan - the homeland of Muslims - Pakistan is such a collossal failure that you might as well throw in the towel. I mean, you might as well accuse Zionist terrorists in Israel (which are very much real) of cooperating with Syria to blow up IDF employees. There is a limit to conspiracy theories dude.

zee check your email :)

cliftonbridge ;-)

probably no army in the world is hated more by their own countrymen than Pak army right now....this does not bode well for the country in general.

dullabhatti #103 You have made your statement at the right place. Chowk is the World Capital of Wishful Thinking.

Echo, Zeemax

The pattern of explosion in these pictures suggests even to the most naive observer that explosive was set off from inside the bus and not outside. If it were a suicide bomber (which I really doubt)then it must be a uniformed personnel otherwise how can a unwashed shalwaria as our resident mirasi usually puts it, be allowed to ride on the bus. And if it weren't a suicide bomber then someone was able to penetrate the green zone in rawalpindi.

http://www.pn.com.pk/

stuka

Not suspecting "Islamic fundamentalists," but some Pakistanis do tend to suspect some MQM sympathizers/mohajirs of being Indian/Hindu agents. So it's quite possible that after a bomb blast a poor mohajir is picked up from his home and announced as the Indian/Hindu agent.

In fact, MQM/Mohajirs being less "publicly Islamic" could only add to its/their woes in this regard.

Twin Blasts in Rawalpindi: The CIA's final warning to Musharraf, sign on the dotted lines, or it's your a$$....

Kaal Bhai thanks for ur concerns regarding MQM/Mohajirs but as long as Mushy needs MQM and thier votes..even if an MQM-leader or a PML_leader was in fact an indian agent..he would go scott free..unless supreme court had something to say about it...my feeling is that agents for foreign agencies do it because of money more than thier political affiliations

Re: # 107

how predictable !

..... it is not a bird, it is not a plane, it is not the kanjaroon or the muslimoon, ... it is the cia !

.... jesus, masadi, you should try and read another book !

This is not the first bombing in Pakistan. How come the identities of suidical ass holes don't make public by media and government. It is unbelievable that these media sharks and strong Army can't find who are these people who blew up and where do they dissapear after terrorism in Capital??. We should make the killers a sign of disgrace and portray them as killers via national media. The government's lack of interest in finding the master minds behind these incidents is also to be blame.

Musharraf aides resume talks on deal with Bhutto
Tue Sep 4, 2007 2:58PM BST

By Zeeshan Haider

ISLAMABAD (Reuters) - Representatives of Pakistan's embattled President Pervez Musharraf met former prime minister Benazir Bhutto in Dubai on Tuesday in an effort to end a deadlock on a power-sharing pact, officials said.

The talks focused on holding a parliamentary election later this year and on presidential powers to dismiss a government and dissolve parliament, a spokesman for Bhutto said.

"There has been some progress on the issue of holding of free and fair elections. There has been no progress on the issue about maintaining a balance in powers between the president and the parliament," said Bhutto spokesman Farhatullah Babar.

"The talks will continue."

----------------------------------

Not after the boom, boom they wont, they are done neat and tidy and good to go, if the fool wants to live that is... nevermind that a lot of innocents got killed while accomplishing America's dirty work- but such is the CIA's hallmark.....Nevermind Hamid, he wouldn't consider taking a suppository a "inside job" either.

clifton,

..... you are either with us or against us ! ..... make up your mind

.... and i speak for all the kanjaroons ..... in case you don't know, kanjaroons are all those people who use toothpaste and deodrant, shave their faces instead of their private parts (men), shave their legs instead of their moustaches (women), listen to music other than the daff and the azan, do not parrot meaningless arabic phrases, use utensils to eat, sit on chairs instead of squatting on dusty floors and those who prefer to live in above ground houses instead of caves in the tora bora ............

......generally speaking, kanjaroons are those people who love life more than death ........

Hamid made a typo when he wrote "kanjaroons are those people who love life more than death ........ "

He meant to say "kanjaroons are those people who love their own life more than the death they cause in the millions around the globe ........

Btw, washing your exposed parts multiple times during the day, and inventing the soap are some things that the kanjaroons didn't do even though now they associate themselves with "deodrant"...

kanjaroons: 0, non-kanjaroons: 1

Mentally Challenged Masadi,

The idiotic suggestion that the CIA is behind the terrorist attacks can only come from an intellect of your calibre (abysmally low that is..).

Come on. You can only fool some of the Chowkies some of the time. Most of us can see right through the fake veneer of lulu.com and your imaginary theories involving conspiraciess or the evil elite.here,

By the way, you have not replied to questions raised on other boards. You have also chosen to run away from the dalrymple board. And I find you trying to blame CIA for the bombings. Reminds me of Zeemax who once tried to prove that 9/11 was a US govt make-believe and that the twin towers tragedy was an illusion created by Media/CIA.

Foolish mindsets like yours continue to harm this country and need to be eliminated at the earliest.

kaalchakra #108 And what did you hope to achieve by making up an ethnic angle to this bombing?

i think pakistan needs to stop supporting the usa in waziristan.......the reprecussions are occuring in pakistan, not in usa.......

the usa has made a lot of enemies over the years.....it is about time, it did its own fighting......and gave the same importance to explosions in other countries as it did in its own......if this explosion had taken place in new york, the media coverage would have gone on for months.....

....for some reason, various pakistanis get overly excited and want to support the usa in all its wars....pakistan over-supported the usa in the first afghan war, resulting in all kinds of explosions occuring in pakistan; not to mention a klashnikov culture due to pakistan becoming the logistics line for cia and the mujahideen....

......it is doing the same again........

........as for the taliban and those in waziristan, let them fight the usa if they want.......in return, if the usa bombs them, let them get bombed.......they cannot have it both ways.......they cannot fight the usa, from pakistani soil, against the writ of the pakistan govt. and then expect the same pakistan govt. to stand up for them, when they get bombed.....

let the usa and taliban fight it out in waziristan.......however, pakistan, itself, should never bomb any part of pakistan; including waziristan.......