A Friend of Feudalism

bulleya wrote "....highlighted the fact that USA should have exhausted all international legal options, before moving troops......"

You mean a golden opportunity presents itself to the US elite to start another "war with no end", to summarily execute peace, justified by its 9/11 hurt so it came with no public disapproval, and you say they should go legal? Which world were you living in back then? There is an assumption in your "thinking" that assumes that the US wanted to do the right thing but chose the wrong option, that is why the need for this "moralizing" advice.

Re: # 112

Your discourse cannot be cassified as an "argument". It usually starts with phrases like "you red assed baboons", "you dimwits", and "you morons", which only means that either you are having a bitter divorce or you are scared shitless of losing an argument. Why do you have to yell and insult people if you have substance or even an argument. If screaming had made a substantial argument then all books written in bold, underlined and capital letters would have been blockbuster timeless classics. I don't think you are a very pleasant person to be around and I do not think one can even slightly benefit from your company or discourse.

It was essential to kick out Hindus and Sikhs from
what was to become Pakistan.
With them around, Muslims had no chance except in
political field, like bhumiputras of Malaysia.
In all most of the spheres, Hindus and Sikhs would
have dominated, at least in matters where cerebral
matter matters.
So that was the plan all along and it worked.
If Pakistani Muslims had wisdom to woo them and
pursuade them to stay, Pakistan would have or
would have been on the way to become like Malaysia
instead of on the way to become like Afghanistan.

Urstruly writes "I think Masadi is devoid on both accounts, sincerity and presentation. "

Regarding substance, none of you mullahs from the high priest the Khota (Bakri Omar) to the low down jihadists have been able to counter what I say directly from the Quran, if I am so devoid of substance then you should be able to blow me away in argument but not one of you has been able to. Regarding presentation, I would take mine any day over the burping sermons of some mullah high on halva

Just one point I want to make clear to this "red assed baboon" Manto when he claims that I "excuse" the Bengal massacre, I never "excused" the massacre of Bengalis, it is just that the Army action that resulted in that has not ZAB but Yahya, the war criminal to blame. Bhutto was not the military commander in cheif to be giving orders and tactics to the military, it was Yahya's military. Now please clarify to me how talks between Yahya and ZAB amount to ZAB's point by point instruction on how to militarily suppress the Bengali vote? ZAB had nothing to do with the massacre and you do not have any proof , non existant talks behind closed doors do not constitute proof. ZAB the democrat, the Muslim, the friend of the poor and the downtrodden was willing to negotiate to sit as a minority but not under a plan that would cause another "bangladesh" in three of the four provinces down the road and that even if this trap that was being set by the military would be allowed to go on. That is my point of view and it is supported by the facts which are not in a "secret meeting" in some hidden room in Larkana but out in the open subject to analysis.

#107 Posted by bulleya on September 6, 2007 12:31:09 pm


following is from an article i wrote on this site: http://www.chowk.com/articles/5335


That article was written in 2002, long after the t-shirt with paki flag days were over and the canine status of pureland was becoming increasingly obvious..

in any case, the article was titled india's lose lose scenario...turns out, it was a win-win for india...so you're wrong there too..

you're acting like bill o'reilly who gets all worked up when people quote HIM.

O this was good indeed; want to share it again.


Once when Sardar Ataullah Mengal, NawaB amir Muohammed Khan ( then Gov. west Pak) & Ayub ( Pres. ) were together discussing some matter. When Mengal raised his voice high & chided Ayub, Kalabagh requested him to exercise restraint to which Mengal, aghast said to Kalabagh iright in front of Ayub: " Nawab sahib, this guy is a naukar, he is on wages, how can you ever compare him to you & I"

The worst thing that has happened to both India & Pakistan is this transplanted system of "democracy" & the dissolution of States. Hyderbad Bhopal Rampur have yet been not replaced even to their 10% level in all spheres of activities. The Great Mughals did not interfere in the Panchayat system & never ever disturbed the ground-roots of all culture & tradition

i think one needs to separate the rhetoric/manifesto etc. of ppp from the people running it.....

i think ppp has one of the better, if not best manifestos for pakistan....i actually agree with much of bhutto's rhetoric....the older i get, the more socialist i am becoming.....

......however, rhetoric is just that.....rhetoric......what the ppp has actually done is the total opposite of what it preaches.....it is ruled by the chief feudal family of pakistan, which runs it like a family fiefdom.....feudals will never support the common man....the businessman may support the common man, the army may, the ngo's may, the maulvi may, but never the feudal.....

the best thing that can happen now is for the law for not allowing three time pm to stay.......this may open up an opportunity for someone else to lead ppp as pm....

though i don't think bb is going to give an opportunity to people like aitezaz ahsan....she will stick with incompetent folks like ameen fahim.....

ppp without its top feudals would be a good prospect for pakistan.....

masadi #: Further regarding the Afghan invasion post 9/11 you were rejoicing over the prospects that presented for Pakistan"

hmm......another pakistani gentleman forced to quote arjun....we pakistanis are totally screwed now.....

i actually opposed the afghanistan invasion....in fact i moved out of the usa, and gave up an opportunity for a us passport, as i disagreed with us foreign policy....all of this is far too well documented....

following is from an article i wrote on this site: http://www.chowk.com/articles/5335

"When the United States of America was laying down its plans to attack Afghanistan, a small group of people, including the author, highlighted the fact that USA should have exhausted all international legal options, before moving troops......

This reduces the whole world to the law of the jungle, and the survival of the militarily fittest...This has made the world a more dangerous place, and will further increase every country’s desire to acquire more weaponry, both conventional and nuclear."

as i said earlier, please take it easy on the rhetoric and stick with facts......the above should highlight your incorrect rhetoric.....

there is nothing wrong with liking bhutto......however, supporting a feudal, who kept his family feudal, totally contradicts you sociological stands.....feudals are at the opposite extreme of the common man.....it doesn't matter what commentary they use......there can be no socialism in a country, as long as its land is owned by feudals and they are its prime minsiters........

jiss kaith sae dehqaan ko muyyassar na ho rozi
uss kaith kae har khosho-e-gandum ko jala do

one would think you would be burning bhutto's kaiths, not supporting him.......

104:
You said it man...
helps reminding us all once in a while of the Hikayaat-i-Saadi: the treasure house of wisdom found no where else in the world.

The wisdom of Sa'adi... he was the sage for all ages.

Re: # 101

There is a short story by Sheikh Saadi's in his book Gulstan that fits perfectly well on Masadi. Sheikh writes that once upon a time there was a Mo'azan (prayer caller) who was a very devout Muslim. He would get up early in the morning, rain or shine, climb up the minaret and call for prayers. The only problem was that he had the most terrible voice imaginable. Everybody in the town despised his call for prayers but nobody would dare tell him because of his devotion and sincere adherence to the religion.

One day this Moa'zan, who was so convinced of the beauty of his voice decided to go on a missionary trip to convert people into islam. He happened upon a distant town whose people had never heard about Islam. It was night time already when people received him as a traveller and offered him an abode for the night. They asked him about the purpose of his trip. He told them about the name of One Lord and that he had come to their town to introduce people to their salvation. People heard him intently and then since it was getting late at night everybody left him to get some rest.

Next morning, early as usual this Moa'zan woke up and climbed the roof of his room and started calling for the prayer in his horrible voice. No living beings in that town had ever heard such a horrible noise before; the small children started crying, the men and women who were sleeping in their beds comfortably fell down on the floor, cows and horses fled barns and stables, dogs started howling, and hens abandoned the eggs they were hatching. Everybody was dazed and confused about that horrible noise until they found out that it was the stranger whom they had received yesterday. They asked Moa'zan about the reason for making such a horrible ruckus in the wee hours of the night. The Moa'zan replied that he was only calling the people to the Good Lord so that they could have their salvation. The people said, if this is the way you call people to your Lord then thank you very much; we have no intention to know about your Lord.

MORAL: Devotion and sincerity in faith is not enough but presentation is also important when you reach out to the people.

I think Masadi is devoid on both accounts, sincerity and presentation.

For the sake of historical accuracy ... one must be clear that the steel mill in Karachi was conceptualised in 1968 (when Bhutto was no longer in the government) and an agreement to this effect was concluded with the USSR in January 1971.

Zulfikar Ali Bhutto laid the foundation stone in 1973 pursuant to this agreement and had little to do with it per se.. though it is understandable that Bhutto tried to spin it as his achievement.

Personalities like ZaB, MAJ, or MKG can be and are discussed ad-nauseum here & elsewhere but one thing that truly makes the all great is:

None of them Khaa Paisaa of the qaum or awaam.

All of their other "mistakes" "sins" or "crimes" can be mootpoints but nothing fresh is being discussed here except
one's own predujices under the cover of who has a bigger hard disc of clutter.

Masadi says that Urstruly is depending on "he said she said".

But Masadi doesn't even have that ...does he? Other than blind ignorance and a small mind resembling that of "Shah Dola da chuha" he has been unable to provide any real basis for his adulation for Zulfikar Ali Bhutto...

How unfortunate is Bhutto to have won an admirer like Masadi who has turned Bhutto-admirers and Bhutto-sympathizers into Bhutto-haters. People who can't agree on anything... people like Urstruly, Bulleya, myself, rozaiba ... are unanimous on this one point. Indeed this is the kind of consensus that might one day help Pakistan rid itself of third rate feudal politicians (or as Dalrymple calls it "Elective feudalism") that masquerades as some sort of democracy ... and bring forth politicians on all sides in the mould of Mahomed Ali Jinnah.

Re: # 97

I don't need a sermon on democracy. When is the last time party elections were held with in PPP. Isn't it a fact that ZAB's wife became the dejure party leader after ZAB's demise and after her, BB became a lifetime party leader. WTF does the word "lifetime' mean. It means there won't be any elections for PPP leadership unless BB dies. If this is the kind of democracy you are peddling then stay with in your business territory i.e. poor illetrate masses who can be bought with the promise of a loaf of bread. Try to look outside from the well that you have started to assume to be the whole universe. The choking hold of your inferiority complex and inherent prejudices have turned you into a small minded Shah Dollah's rat.