Remembering the Presidential Election of 1965

HP sain/Manto mian,

Re: FM Controversy

Doesn't the Chowk have a FM- Romair sahib? Why not ask him for adjudication on the FM debate.

Masadi sahib,

If MAJ's popularity arises out of his appeal to Muslim separatism how come 46% of Injuns have given him a thumbs up, Muslims are only 15% of the population.

Regards

Please correct me if I am wrong harish, but wasn't manto an admirer of gandhi too a long way back?
with much respect,
thinking storm

Hey manto, read #39 before getting all screwy minded, you have lost the arguments regardless of your he said she said that a secret meeting revealed bribery evidence. The Church of the MAJ has been routed on Chowk

Folks, in all this tu-tu main-main, one glaring fact seems to have been completely overlooked. Not so long ago, Yasser was an unabashed admirer, nay worshipper of Bhutto. Alas, poor ZAB is no longer in his good books and has been relegated to the dustbins of Yasser's study where MKG lies in his permanent resting place.

In #39 read "Now why would you suppor the previous kind of mass support and not the latter is what is baffling to me, seriously "

As "Now why would you support the previous kind of mass support and not the latter is what is baffling to me, seriously "

This part was for HP.

Masadi,

You are tying yourself up in knots. You say Jinnah was not popular and yet FJ was a candidate because of him. You still haven't answered why FJ was so popular all over Pakistan... as HP has mentioned below.

Seperation from the Hindus, and invoking religious sentiment in that seperation and the resulting dynamic of seperation was what popularized MAJ in Pakistan through an entire cultural enterprise. What popularized ZAB were real bread and butter economic concerns of the people, not theology and seperation. Now why would you suppor the previous kind of mass support and not the latter is what is baffling to me, seriously

HP,

"Ms. Jinnah had overwhelming support in every city and town in Pakistan. The reason she was supported was MAJ. She was nobody without him.
Now you can debate all you want but the fact remains that MAJ is still popular in at least Karachi and Punjab. "

Well said.

Infact the greatest support Fatima Jinnah had was in East Pakistan ... even Jinnah's role in the Urdu as lingua franca was not enough to undo his popularity there.

Fatima Jinnah brought East and West together albeit briefly. This is what I feel was the greatest loss.

HP writes "what are you talking about? Ms. Jinnah had overwhelming support in every city and town in Pakistan. The reason she was supported was MAJ. She was nobody without him."

My point and I stand by it is that she was propped up by the alliance because of the MAJ factor- nobody disputes this, the support like you say she had was because of the cultural factor of MAJ and not because of any message she had or he had for that matter for the people, other than legitimizing their massacre. The other fact that is also there is that she lost, while ZAB won and had popular support because of a message that was "original support" and not anything built upon cultural legitimation of the MAJ kind...

In East Pakistan she was the darling of the crowds though her speeches were in broken urdu. Still, Bengalis flocked to her public meetings.

About popular support... it is suffice to see the facts...

Forget that Fatima Jinnah was the unanimous choice of a divided polity... forget that those who sided with Fatima Jinnah included people who had opposed Jinnah...

Since 1939... Jinnah came to be known as Quaid-e-Azam- after he was referred to as by a Muslim writer from UP and later even Gandhi called him Quaid-e-Azam... though Jinnah never referred to himself as that.

Meanwhile just like Ayub became a field marshal ... Zulfikar Ali Bhutto annointed himself Quaid-e-Awam... yet not even all of his supporters call him that.

Asadi

"The fact: Fatima Jinnah lost, Fatima Jinnah was propped up becaue of the MAJ factor (monarchial succession) erroneously thinking that the people would support her because of the MAJ cultural domination of the West Pakistan scene. They were wrong MAJ had no popular support,"

what are you talking about? Ms. Jinnah had overwhelming support in every city and town in Pakistan. The reason she was supported was MAJ. She was nobody without him.

Now you can debate all you want but the fact remains that MAJ is still popular in at least Karachi and Punjab.

manto pappu,

I am not masadi. I am sitting in California right now, getting disgusted by your ramblings.

Please argue with me on seperate posts.

And get that gavel out of your ass and present yourself to the CJ for ass duty pronto!
with much respect,
thinking storm

HP,

Was Ayub Khan was a perfectly legitimate civilian president from 1962-1969? That Ayub was not in uniform during this period? Could we say then that military rule ended in 1962?

To my mind a Field Marshal is a serving officer but I am willing to be convinced otherwise.


Masadi/thinkingstorm,

You think you can win any arguments with this kind of abuse? One can imagine why you were fired from that American community college and why you were thrown out of a Pakisatni college ...

Manto writes "Herbert Feldman recounted in his book “Crisis to Crisis” that a certain Shaikh Karamatullah of Tasnim-e-Islami quoted Mahmoodul Haq Usmani, the General Secretary of Wali Khan’s NAP that a handsome amount was paid to Maulana Bhashani and his party by Ayub government through Zulfikar Ali Bhutto to ensure Fatima Jinnah’s defeat"

Now if an ordinary Bob presented this kind of evidence, we'd say he was just naive to accept it but when a lawyer does it we know he wants mere deception. A certain x quoted y, that political opponents said that they were bribed to ensure the defeat of Fatima Jinnah. Even a bloody fool can see this this is slander against ZAB and nothing else. The fact: Fatima Jinnah lost, Fatima Jinnah was propped up becaue of the MAJ factor (monarchial succession) erroneously thinking that the people would support her because of the MAJ cultural domination of the West Pakistan scene. They were wrong MAJ had no popular support, the first time anyone broke through to the hearts of the public of Pakistan was when ZAB went to the people with his socialist agenda. Let the dogs bark, the books have already been written and no x quoted y that he heard z say that the prophet said such and so- the classic hadith deception will ever change the facts of history...

Manto,

Please check UP. I have opened a thread in your honor.
with much respect,
thinking storm