The need for De-Bhuttofication of the Pakistan People's Party

viqarm, you misunderstand. I am fully with you that Hindus in Pakistan have it made, or doing as well as Pakistani Muslims.

You just might find it a bit hard convincing many other Indians, except Farzana Versey and communists.

If your objective is confined to convincing me, you just succeeded.

#226
Pakistani Hindus are doing fine, percentage-wise. I had at least 3 in my batch (roughly 160) at the engineering college. That is a normal ratio if one looks at their percentage population in Pakistan.

I have never held Pakistan as a model for rights of minorities. But minorities in Pakistan are much better off than the Indian muslim is in India.

Like I said, if you don't have anything whorthwhile to say ...

#221

There is roughly the same size population of muslims in both countries. It would be normal to expect the same level of accomplishment, in numbers, most of all in academics.

What does 97% or 15% have to do with it?

In case your midget sized brain is having difficulty with it, the population ratio betwen Pakistan and India is roughly 1:7. One would, therefore expect about 7 Indian students for evey Pakistani student abroad.

Obviously 662 Indians to 488 Pakistanis (forget about muslims for the time being) is not a chest thumping achievement, is it?

The issue is the cultural genocide of muslims that India has been systematically carrying out for the last 6o years; that is is the real reason one finds for so few Indian muslim professionals abroad. But you wouldn't want that higlighted, would you?

Heck I can find 3 sikhs, or more, for every Indian muslim abroad; and sikhs are only 11% (may be less) of the Indian population. How do you explain such ridiculous discrepancies?

oh ho, viqarm, that was not to be taken literarlly. Evidently, the number of romairs and bulleyas has been and is significantly large, large enough to be able to make a difference.

If it helps you feel better choosing Pakistani Hindus as benchmarks for Indian Hindus, please do go ahead. Despite the firm belief Romair will have that Pakistani Hindus are miles ahead, Indians of all sorts, except Farzana Versey, will laugh at you.

Which will again convince you you are right. It is an inescapable cycle.

#221

If you don't have anything intelligent to say, dont't say it.

I am not acquaitnted with romair/bulleya, but the one thing shorn of intelligence is your piece of gem ...

Re: # 221 kaal

I don't agree with kaal on very many things - but he is right on this... A people with 97% majority is comparing themsevels with a people at 15% minority and feeling good about it? that's ridiculous...

The worst part is - even at 97% majority, pakis still don't come out that far ahead indian muslims, in many ways... In some cases they are actually behind indian muslims

What the heck is wrong with you pakis?.... Never mind... :)...

#220 Posted by majumdar,

Agreed. Democracy is a slow process.

Zee sahib,

To add to 220. A curiosity from India as regarding patronage systems- Filmstar's Fanclubs particularly in South India. It was the MGR Fan Club/NTR Fan Club which gave MGR's breakaway faction (ADMK) and NTR's TDP the muscle to cash onto the popular need for a regional voice. Maybe some of our South Indian friends can say something about this.

Regards

viqarm and others on Indian Muslims versus Pakistani Muslims

Wonder how it always starts, but this debate is so shorn of any intelligence and truth that it should be left exclusively to joint custody of romair and bulleya. How do others get into it?

Isn't it an outright insult for Pakistani Muslims to be compared with an arguably controversial minority with a most traumatized recent past in another country? That is setting disgracefully low standards, and vision, for oneself for ANY majority.

Comparisons can help as benchmarks. But for that right benchmarks are necessary.

Benchmarks shouldn't be used to continuously justify survival or existence (we are better off than at least so and so), but to win.

-------

Please, let's put an end to using Indian Muslims as football. That kind of cynical and fallacious argumentation should belong to romair/bulleya and nobody else ought to steal it from him. Who knows, he might next insult Indian Hindus by setting Pakistani Hindus as benchmarks for them.

Zee sahib,

Lawyers dont have a huge amount of votes. Patronage systems do- Caste groups, Labour Unions, Feudal leaders, Village sarpanches and all that.

It will be interesting to see how many seats Mr. Ahsaan manages. Don't expect too many.

Regards

don quixote achieved nothing. MAJ founded a nation - and riled you indians up for ever after. so, sorry but your comparison is incorrect and merely reveals how deeply the creation of Pakistan has affected Indians. :-)


my comparison is correct.. Jinnah achieved nothing new.. Muslims were dominant in the regions that constitute Pakistan and Bangladesh before 1947 and they are dominant now. If at all he reduced the size of the territory on both sides.. :-)

#216 Posted by majumdar,

But you're forgetting he is in a way 'already' the leader of a new party ... i.e. the fiery lawyers of all shades and colours ... from all provinces ... with great public support ....

Tahmed sahib,

We already celebrate MAJ (pbuh) birthday. Dec 25 is a gazetted holiday.

Regards

Zee sahib,

The cruel reality of subcontinental electoral politics is that Mr. Ahasan will be wiped out if he forms his own party.

INC's experience in India shows that if at all breakway (i.e. non Nehru-Gandhi) factions have survived they have survived as purely regional parties - eg Trinamool Congress or NCP (Maharashtra). All so-called national level Congress factions just vanished into thin air:

Eg:

INC (O): Formed in 1967, heeld the majority of INC organisationally, routed in 1972 polls, vanished into Janata Party after 1975.
Congress (S): Breakaway faction of the INC formed after split in 1978. Held the majority of INC's MPs. Routed in 1980, Pawar went back to INC in 1984, INC (S) survived as 1 MP party for another 15 years or so.
Rashtriya Samajwadi Congress: formed by Pranab Mukherjee in 1985 after he was kicked out of INC disappeared even b4 it was forced Mr. Mukherjee had to crawl on all fours to get readmittance.

The only breakaway faction which had some success at the national level were the socialist elements of the INC (RM Lohia, JB Kripalani and others) which formed the bedrock of the Socialist Party.

Regards

#207 chennai: good. I suggest you start celebrating Jinnah's birthday in India to express your gratitude.

#209 masanmuthu: don quixote achieved nothing. MAJ founded a nation - and riled you indians up for ever after. so, sorry but your comparison is incorrect and merely reveals how deeply the creation of Pakistan has affected Indians. :-)