The need for De-Bhuttofication of the Pakistan People's Party

Ahmed Raza Kasuri the village idiot has made an interesting statement at the Supreme Court.

He declared that he managed to eliminate Bhutto and hence Aitzaz would be no match. The judicial murder of Zulfikar Ali Bhutto was a great tragedy in our country's history.

Bhutto fell victim to his own policies of persecution and state-sponsored oppression. Zia-ul-Haq was Bhutto V 2.0. Ziaism was basically a less attractive but more effective fom of Bhuttoism - as defined in the article. It was the case of one machiavellian falling prey to the machinations of another machiavellian... quite like Danton and Robespierre if you ask me.

Ahmed Raza Kasuri was simply the village idiot.

ha ha ha TAhmed.

Cobra: I think you meant your spelling teacher. Your grammer teacher committed suicide when you started writing english using gujrati grammer.

Clifton, it's of no use. My grammar teacher in school tried it unsuccessfully. Finally she gave up and committed suicide. :((

Re: # 311

It is proven beyond doubt that the mosques and madarassas are actually the seat of evil of Islamic fascism world over.

The fact that NO Islamic state or any country trying to emulate the book of hate would actually let NEW idols and Dev-Sthanam get established in their land.
The script of hate allows for slow stifling of zimmi faith so that they are harrassed into Islamic submission.
Every muslim of some faith knows this fact about their duty to harrass zimmis - howsoever they may try to sugar coat it.

shah2 bhai, yaara, moghuls were us as well, and hope the day never comes when any Indian is not proud of the fact that the word 'moghul' has become part of the English language, denoting glory and grandeur. It's just that we never had people of courage and real vision, our desmond tutus and mandelas(*)...but we (and that includes both Hindus and Muslims of Indo-Pak) are a resilient and intelligent people. We will gradually craft our mututally respectful understandings, with better results for all. Cheers (hope you don't take any words used here amiss. They are meant only for people who, one regretfully concludes, are too closed-minded, too full of themselves, to listen to any pleas or entreaties).

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(*) On second thoughts, that is not right. We had the best leaders anyone could have had, but even the best leave us asking for more, and, like greedy children, whining for a little more, a little more.

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agreed, tahmed ji. Thanks for the quote.

Kaalchakra #313 Good point. Thomas Jefferson said: The legitimate powers of government extend to such acts only as are injurious to others. But it does me no injury for my neighbor to say there are twenty gods or no god. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg.—Thomas Jefferson, Notes on Virginia, 1785.

What picks people's pocket and breaks people's legs is religion used as a tool to gain and maintain power, to carry out immoral acts in its name. Once hindus and muslims in the subcontinent realize this, they will see that their true enemies throughtout history and to this day are not one another by the priesthood and rulers who consider themselves accountable to God and not to the people. And so Jefferson's wise words are as applicable today as they were back in 1785 when he wrote them - keep government accountable to the people, and keep religion out of politics.

Kaalchakra #313 Good point. Thomas Jefferson said: The legitimate powers of government extend to such acts only as are injurious to others. But it does me no injury for my neighbor to say there are twenty gods or no god. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg.—Thomas Jefferson, Notes on Virginia, 1785.

What picks people's pocket and breaks people's legs is religion used as a tool to gain and maintain power, to carry out immoral acts in its name. Once hindus and muslims in the subcontinent realize this, they will see that their true enemies throughtout history and to this day are not one another by the priesthood and rulers who consider themselves accountable to God and not to the people. And so Jefferson's wise words are as applicable today as they were back in 1785 when he wrote them - keep government accountable to the people, and keep religion out of politics.

#313 &#314

Cobes And Kaal I excuse my self I am Sufi
and dont love moghuls

manto in all the tu tu main main i forgot to say that was a really well thought out argument. I have often hoped for PPP's sake that BB would die of sudden cardiac death. I have the same hope for Altaf for MQM's sake too.

cobes i love you but please yaar. As the second worse speller here ....from one doll to another ...its spelt WORSHIP!!! Warship is a whole different kettle of fish.

Yasser, we seem to have hijacked your thread but since the topic is raised let's discuss it here. :)

Salim, I have no desire to kill some one over petty issues of place of warship nor do I have any desire to destroy what was erected on earlier destruction. Although, I must confess that I supported destruction of Babri Masjid at the time but over the years I have seen the fallacy of that action. I do not support any such cause any longer.
Having said that, let me also mention that let's come foreword and own up to the mistakes of our ancestors. Candid confession is the first step of reconciliation.

salim and cobes, people are killed and die totally unnecessarily because those issues of hundreds of years ago, and their consequences, are with us, left unresolved even today. If spain ever builds up sufficient numbers of Muslims, there might be trouble ahead for spain over the Grand Mosque of Cordova, and such.

The only way to move forward on these issues is a real truth commission, so old issues can be acknowledged and put aside.

In Inddia/Pakistan, we have a tragic situation. Muslims look at the Muslim rule period as one of great enlightenment, Hindus as one of great evil. If our leaders had the wisdom and courage, they would have shown us the truth for whatever it was - probably something in the middle.

But we are left with two completely different views, that directly offend each other's sensitivities. And sensitivities are not controlled, when they collide with our present (obviously not very good) realities. :(

{"salim, how would you feel if some one destroys Mecca’s kaaba built their places of warship and then build new mosques somewhere else?"}

Cobray,
I visited the Grand Mosque of Cordova and it's now a cathedral.
I also see the Hajia Sofia which was a cathedral, turned into a mosque by Ottomans, and is now a museum thanks to Ataturk.
I saw the destruction of the Babri Masjid on TV.
I also saw the destruction of the Great Budha of Bamiyan on TV
I listen to the constant desire of right-wing neo cons and bible thumpers and fanatic Jews that they want to demolish the Dome of the Rock.

So, I hate it when historic buildings are destroyed. I hate it more when live people are killed today for the destruction of buildings 300 - 800 years ago.

#310 What is name of that Famous Shiv Temple ? I have been to Kashi but not to the temple.
I dunno much but D.M ji has .
Dont if i can prove it but it was center of activities detrimental to citizens like seat of crime .Obviously its one point of view

salim, how would you feel if some one destroys Mecca’s kaaba built their places of warship and then build new mosques somewhere else?

Shah, I didn't see DM's post. Have you been to Kashi temple? The evidence is plain in site.