The need for De-Bhuttofication of the Pakistan People's Party

#125 Posted by hamidm2 on September 16, 2007 6:31:13 pm
Re: # 122

hp,

"Can the current India accept a new country which is not based on religion?"


Hamid
If India did other wise you would be Indian and hosting party for south Indians as your Punjabi from Hindu side of the border.Now who do you want to thank more Jinnah for asking for it or INC for giving to you

Re:HP
"Replacing this kind of mediocre talent should never have been a problem for the Muslims.....If Indians wants to keep their 150 Mil population down..."

HP, what I am saying is that in the post-partition subcontinent, the condition of minorities became dismal on both sides due to the partition holocaust. On Pakistan side, there were too few left to matter. On the Indian side, it was not a big deal for Indian muslims to replace the muslim talent that had left. But the indian muslims who woke up the next day after August 15, 1947, were shell shocked. They realized suddenly what had happened to them. They suddenly got demoted from being a co-equal community to becoming a hated, loathed minority with much fewer numbers. Just read Maulana Azad's poignant description of how Indian muslims felt just after partition. It has taken them decades to regain their footing after that.

Of course Indians hated muslims for partition for a long time. It would be dishonest to deny that. After all, we are human. If someone harms us in such a drastic manner, most of it without any real justification, it is natural to loathe them. I am sure muslims faced severe discrimination at that time to get jobs or education or whatever. The tide has turned on that as the memories of partition get foggier. Now everyone has a vested interest in the success of indian muslims.

"Replacing this kind of mediocre talent should never have been a problem for the Muslims."

Despite several problems, a defective educational system and often blatant discrimination, Pakistan has replaced the mediocre talent from India many times over. And that a success that India or the Indian Muslims have failed to duplicate.

#130 Posted by Ranjit

I appreciate your candor and that is something everyone should understand. Indian Muslims have suffered and their suffering continues.

However, the point that we make is that instead of 150 mil, 450 mil would have been suffering in united India. the rivalry between the two communities was not solely the demand of Pakistan. It existed before the demand and the demand was the result of that rivalry.

Re: # 128

vrv,

....no blue label for you ! ........

hamid2, the funny buffoon,

I dont go for freebies like u do.

I give parties. I dont take any.

#131

Imho some of those Indians who migrated or there progeny have west to thank Not Pakistan.Also some Muslims experience much more benefit by being in India specially bollywood e.g Dilip Kumar only one of them.
There have been atleast 3 presidents including Kalam lately .
Mohajir or Indian muslims filled the vacuum created by exit of Hindus.Whether they would continue to be as sucessful or as rapidly is doubtfull .
I mho that my be the case of Refuges from Pakistan too speciall if they enconter other ethnics in the services or dong business in other regions than there lingual strong holds

The mother all freebies is asylum. Sorry for u fella.

Re:HP
"However, the point that we make is that instead of 150 mil, 450 mil would have been suffering in united India."

HP, that is where I disagree. In a united India, there would have been no legacy of the partition holocaust. The numbers would have been too vast to institute systematic discrimination of any kind. Many large provinces including entire Punjab, entire Bengal, Sindh, Kashmir, Assam, NWFP, Baluchistan would have muslim rule.

In addition, muslims would have capitalized on the much deeper caste based cleavage among hindus, to form alliances either with upper castes or lower castes to get into majorities at the center. Basically the situation would have been completely different as things would have reverted back to pre-british conditions. After all muslims didnt really have a hard time ruling the place for centuries in spite of being a minority.

HP

Your statement about Sindhis being a distinct nationality made me curious. Now, I found this on the internet:

More than 30 million people living in Sindh, the southeastern province of Pakistan that was once home to the ancient Indus Valley Civilization, have been engaged in non-violent resistance to the fundamentalist ideology of Pakistan for the last fifty years. Last May, the Congressional Human Rights Caucus held hearings on the human rights situation in Pakistan. Congressman Tom Tancredo observed :

"The treatment received by the Sindh province in Pakistan is also of concern. Sindhis are peace loving, nonviolent Sufis, supportive of the American values of democracy and secularism, and opposed to terrorism and nuclear arms. However, they continue to be marginalized by the Pakistan government, and are negatively affected by the Pakistani government's efforts to dam the Indus River."

Vibrant Sindhi communities numbering in the tens of thousands exist throughout the world. These Sindhis condemn the terrorism and Talibanization of Pakistan and advocate democracy and civil society for all the nationalities. In January 2005, Governor Rick Perry of Texas said in a message to Sindhi-Americans :

"Sindhi-Americans continue to play an important role in promoting peace, democracy, and human rights. By putting thought into action, you have reinforced the importance of being civic-minded, committed citizens, and I wish you continued success."

Pakistan is currently under the control of a military government that denies the peoples of its smaller provinces, especially Sindh and Balochistan, their due political, economic, social, and cultural rights. Over the last few years, the Pakistani government has received several billions of dollars in international aid from the USA, EU, Japan, and other donor countries under the pretext of its role in the "war against terrorism." In reality, the current military dictatorship continues to promote Islamic fundamentalists, impose medieval laws against women and minorities, and teach religious intolerance and anti-Semitism in schools. Pakistan’s role in nuclear proliferation severely threatens the peace and security of the region.

Well, based on the above, not only are Sindhis a nation - they are a nation in chains!

The question is - what are YOU doing to unshackle yourself?

From all indications,

NWFP and Balochistan have already fallen to Talibization!

Punjab (Pakistan) is already half gone - one can not count on the Punjabi khakis because they find it more convenient to surrender in droves to the Taliban than to fight.

That leaves only the Sindhis. The last buffer between the Taliban and India!

Lets pray for the safety and well-being of the Sindhudesh!

There are many Sindhis including me who believe that we did not get a fair share in the pie. How do you approach the issues is a different matter. Some would rely on idiots like Tom Tancredo for relief and others would think about ways to resolve the issue within the system. No matter what the differences, we firmly believe that Sindhis are a distinct nationality in Pakistan and we need to always be ready to defend and fight for our rights.

To the Jahils, Sindhi nationalists have always opposed Benazir and before her , her father. There are things that you just cannot understand about Pakistan because it is a different country, uniquely different than India.

Hey HP miaN, the following will make your heart swell with pride! Wow! We are rooting for you, bro – our last hope before those Talibanis run us over!

The National Anthem of Sindhudesh
Sindhudesh ji dhartee totey panhnajo sees nivayaan maan,
Mitee maathey laayaan maan.
Jeeu jeeu jeejal jeeu jeeu jeejal tokhaan keenan lanwayaan maan,
Mitee maathey laayaan maan
Kaalh maleeraan mihka utheey jaa nagar nagar phelayaan maan,
Mitee maathey laayaan maan.
Duth be tumhimjo deh be tunhinjo, geet amarta gaayaan maan,
Mitee maathey laayaan maan.
Tunhinjee mitee-a- manjh milaan je bhaag bhalera bhaanyaan maan,
Mitee maathey laayaan maan.

Translation.
O land of Sindhudesh, I lay down my head in your respect and I pour the dust of yours on my head. I obey the echo of your call how can I avoid your call, my motherland? The rhythm of your message straight, I wish to spread that message of peace and nobility to the whole world. I may get poor food or what and feel happy and I sing your songs and anthems, I feel luckiest if I lay down in your land, it can be my best of luck.

#131 Posted by HP on September 16, 2007 6:49:37 pm


Despite several problems, a defective educational system and often blatant discrimination, Pakistan has replaced the mediocre talent from India many times over.


really? what do you have to show for it?

a good educational system? nope..

a few billionaires? nope..

a few world class companies? nope...

Good Lord, your Sindhudesh national anthem brings tears to my eyes - and I don't even understand most of its words!

Jeeu jeeu jeejal jeeu...

Bravo!

btw: what's the cost of a blue label at the duty free stores at airports?