The need for De-Bhuttofication of the Pakistan People's Party

In jumps another genius...

Good night.

Perdesi,

Azim Premji is not a self made man. He owes a lot to a successful business helping create another one. I am sure in between he might have many other ventures that failed.

I generally don't read anil's post they are just too simplistic. I only read it when I saw his reference to Farzana.
I was responding to your post and not to any post by anil. As I said I generally don't pay attention to his posts.

What is the success ratio of mulsims in India compared to success of Muslims in Pakistan? Pakistani muslims in every which way are better off than the Indian Muslims.

Re: # 79

Dear Yasser:

"Ok I couldn't help but chip in... your comment vis a vis Mr. Premji (the colorful) v. only giving color to Karachi, Dacca (and ofcourse Islamabad Faisalabad etc) is illogical in its premise.

If you think about it ... it is just one color- bright red as it may be v. millions of colors.... "

I like the way you have drawn this analogy. I agree.

Let me draw one more - Islamabad (have not read about Faisalabad) is progress, just Azim's leadership to transform WIPRO from a small regional vanaspati oil company in IT giant.

Re: # 82

Now for new, something that HP sahib does not understand, he likes to call it simplistic. HP sahib, life is not at all logical or analytical. Besides one call only analyze afterwards.

In fact it consists mostly of very simple incidents. Most majors are accidents. So do not ignore simplicity, there is beauty in it.

My dear Manto, I wish you had held back on some of the scathing criticism of the Benazir (“incapable of appreciating a higher intellect”, etc.) You forget a very simple fact about democracy – it is the PEOPLE who decide who their rulers ought to be – faults notwithstanding. Tell me, which of the politicos are faultless? The reality is that other than the khakis, there are no real players than the BB and the NS – both of which you have so carelessly trashed again and again.

Remember, BB is from a new generation and there is little to suggest that – given an unencumbered hand – she would repeat the mistakes of the ZAB any more than, for example, being handed down the power of Pakistan, YOU would repeat the same mistakes that the MAJ did!

I know, I know – it is not much fun having to choose between the BB, the NS, the Mushy, or the mullah! But things could be a lot worse – you could even end up with the commies!

...not to miss out on the obvious fact that the BB is the most photogenic of the current lot.

If the bholi-bhali Pakistani awaam is deprived of the basic necessities of life and the basic freedoms of life, hey, that is something it has learnt to live without - through a LOT of training!

But by Golly, it shall not be deprived of a good-looking PM filling up its TV screens!

Absolutely not!

Manto
"especially the Muslims of this region while the capital of mostly Hindu and Sikh bourgeoisie would have continued to flow to the stock exchange in Bombay.

In retrospect ... one could hold Jinnah responsible for one major issue: His creation gave people like Muhammed Asadi, who would probably not be more than a havaldar in the United Indian Army, an opportunity to masquerade as "professors" and inundate the world with recycled regurgitated crap in the academic scholarship"

And u have crystal bowl that you can look into
as MAJ scared the muslims 'So jas bache nahi to Ghabar ajayega" he he he

#86

That and seeing a chuberic face on the front page of news paper ( there was not much T.V in '67)was one of the reason to ellect Indira Gandhi intially

In fact, I am reasonably sure the BB can more than hold her own in any “head to head” competition with any of these regional leaders:

Pratibha Patil
Rabri Devi
Sheikh Hasina
Khaleda Zia

Not to forget..

Manmohan Singh

#87 tolkinin

I have not read much of the intriguing miaN Masadi, but he is entitled to his viewpoints - as long as (unlike many others who are wishy-washy on the subject) he does not advocate violence! The academic world the world over is famous for harboring all types of view points which would have a tough time being sheltered in the "real" world.

#82 HP:

You are right - Premji was born with a silver spoon and he made it a golden spoon for his kids. It's like Trump or next geneartion of Ambanis. However, credit must be given to whatever he achieved (You know, even Bill Gates's mom helped him by introducing him to IBM CEO before he got his DOS contract, still we can not underestimate his achievments)

You are right again that average Pakistani Muslim is probably better off than average Indian muslim. However, how much of that has to do with cream of the crop and most ambitious and opportunity seekers moving to Pakistan. I would guess, a lot :).

I really believe that once Indian muslims focus on english education for their kids, they will do better than pakistanis. Why?
#1 - Tough competition from others in india - competition brings out best in you.
#2 - they will not waste their time on what was written in 7th century or what did Jinah said on what date. The energy and intelligence will be focused on future achievement rather than why this or that happened in 1947 or 1971.

Regards.

Mian Masadi,

After reading some of your initial interacts on this board, I am beginning to think that Mian Manto indeed got overcome by rage and was forced to excrete this present outpouring of textual diarrhea probably due to some of YOUR past brutally honest (if less than complimentary) words describing Mr. Jinnah’s disastrous effect on the whole of the subcontinent in general and the minority Muslims, in particular.

#91 Posted by Pardesi

“However, how much of that has to do with cream of the crop and most ambitious and opportunity seekers moving to Pakistan. I would guess, a lot :).”

That is subjective. The opportunity seekers worked for the civil bureaucracy and then moved on to the private sector jobs. They barely had any money to invest in Industry and other capitalist ventures. Memon, Bohra and Khoja, worked really hard to set up businesses but they are mostly traders. The Dauds, the soomars, the Admajees or the Habibs are not major player in Pakistan anymore.

Also, barely 20% of Muslims who came from India were educated and now their next generations are running close to 90% educated. Even the poorest folks from Rajasthan have improved their lot in Pakistan whereas their relatives in India lag far behind.

Actually there is no comparison at all and the educated Muslim corps form India is not a major factor in Pakistan business, trade and jobs now.

In the 50s, Pakistani courts and educational institutions were full of people from India now they are not dominant in those sectors either.
They had an impact initially but they are only 7% of the population and don’t impact the numbers now.

Otoh, compared to Muslim population in India, the educated Muslims that left India were insignificant, Just a couple of hundred thousand or so.

Why the Muslims in India have not recovered from a loss, minuscule in numbers, in the last 60 years?

#91& 03

", how much of that has to do with cream of the crop and most ambitious and opportunity seekers moving to Pakistan. I would guess, a lot :).'

I am an Indian Muslims living in USA .All the successful Pakistanis who i have seen are not from indigenous Pakistan but from India where there fore father were educated .And if Pakistan was the utopia why largest number of them having technical skills either came to Canada or USA if Pakistan was such a good place.So what if India is not as good but both Indian & Pakistani muslims if they apply themselves would consider nether India nor Pakistan there destination.If you take the Indian Muslims in West they are much more educated and skilled than indegenous Pakistani Paindu

HP, what happened? I thought you would be friends with the BB crowd.

As in "Sindhi-Sindhi-bhai-bhai."

Alas, it seems to have become a case of "Sindhi, Sindhi - bye, bye!"

"All the successful Pakistanis who i have seen are not from indigenous Pakistan but from India where there fore father were educated ."

Which USA you live? Yes they are plenty of urdu speaking but in the US they don't dominate the Pakistani community nor are they majority of professional Pakistanis.