Limits of Multiculturalism

Re: # 41 hamimd
[....what is up with desis and scotch ?...]

The same thing as the Brits and Chicken Tikka - it's another aspect of multi-culti, globalization sweeping the world... Desis love their scotch while Brits love their Tikka...

See - this multi-culti thing was working beautifully until you muslim scr@ewed it up... why the heck you bedouin-worshippers have to mess up every good thing in the world? :)

It is a very well argued thesis. In the past what happened to chinese, sikhs, jews, irish, and of course blacks etc in North America was purely racial and xenophobic. But after 9/11 all paradigms have changed. Now the status of Islam vs West is that of ideological. When a ten year old muslim girls is perceived as a threat to the Western civiliztion than it needs no explanation to understand that at ideological level west has no moral leg to stand on.

Thanks to Bush and Americans, all false idols that West had created are crumbling one by one by none other but by themselves. Those idols were the illusion, of justice, tolerance, equality, and fraternity that created an aura of superiority around themselves, while there were nothing in reality.

Western governments can be compared to that father who is loving to his children, provides them affluent living, arrange for them high education in the best schools possible. But outside of his house he is corrupt and dangerous man. He is serial killer. All the wealth that he has had been gathered by hustling and looting from helpless. So can we call such a person morally upright just because he is nice to his own kids?

9/11 has changed everything. It has drawn a shrp line between what is right and what is wrong. A hatered for Muslims for some reason is one thing but every p-erson in this universe now knows what is right and what is wrong.

By "limiting the multiculturism" west id only desperately trying to cut its losses. Unfortunately, there is no going back now for any party involved.

Kaal

What do you have in mind Kaal?... Please - donot give us your hinud-liberal mumbo-jumbo about "authentic islam" and what not

West made the same mistake India made in 1947.... after the we-don't-want-no-hinud-culture riff-raff went over to pakiland, india should have taken concrete steps to reform the remaining muslims with effective secular education... instead, congress opted to pander to the already backward population with same old religious bullsh!t - kept them ghettoised for vote bank purpose... all in name of diversity and multi-culturalism...

Now the result is for all to see - vast population if muslim stay backward, ghettoised, pigeon-holed politically and otherwise...

mohar, giving ANYONE secular education is wrong, and for Hindus to force it on Muslims would have been/will be criminal.

Chinese have been trying this fraud for ever, and do you think they have destroyed Islam or built a better, newer version?

Kaala Chakra,

Muslims (even arab Muslims) of French rule and those of British rule behave differently.

Is it coz of the educational setup or overall appraoch to religion?

Empirically French Muslims tend to be less radical.

Mohar is 100% abt secularising Indian ppls.
I also admit that u hate anything secular & liberal as much as u hate the oooons of the above categories. :-(

Hamid,

Ur humour is always welcome. As for mudhuts in Jullundhar...I dont feel offended....for me every state is like a foreign country...diff ppl, diff names, diff lingo, diff food, diff dress, diff culture, diff level of devp even though the feeling is phir bhi dil hai Industani.

Re: # 49

mohar mian,

"this multi-culti thing was working beautifully until you muslim scr@ewed it up... why the heck you bedouin-worshippers have to mess up every good thing in the world?"

.... why? .... because the moon god told us that we have the perfect religion and that we have to follow his words and his messenger's examples as silly as they might appear to be - the koran and the hadith cannot be changed ..... just becuse we invented urinals does not mean that it is okay to pee standing up

....... we have also been told that that all you infidels need to convert (for your own good, i might add) and that it is our duty to take the message to you ..... it is your fault that you don't recognize what is good for you and insist on fighting us ..... shame on you for being so inconsiderate ......

.... personally, i am all for the mild and innocuous forms of multiculturalism like scotch for desis and chikkan tikka for brits ... however, i do draw the line at licking your fingers in public, washing your feet in the sink, women with more than three clips in their hair, and men who insist on wearing sneakers with dress pants .....

..... but sometimes even these mild forms of multiculturalism can be deadly ..... take the example of our neighbour's kid, mickey .... mickey moved in next door when he was around two years old - the same age as my younger daughter ..... he was a blond, blue eyed, blue blooded kid of good english stock whose great grand pappy had come aboard the mayflower and landed at the rock ..... before we could put the veil on our daughter, mickey was spending most of his day at our house chasing after her in his pampers ..... going through the trials and tribulations of potty training together, they became soul mates and mikey started calling me abu and i started dreaming of having blonde grand kids ....... anyway, mickey would eat at least one meal at our house and grew to love aaloo keema ...... even though he loudly professed his love for my chikkan tikkas and seekh kebabs, his true love was aaloo keema ....... as he grew up and was exposed to school food, his love for aaloo keema grew and his disdain for his own cuisine dimiished ...... at dinner time when his mother sent over his little brother to fetch him, he would yell, "i hate mom's cooking, i hate meat loaf, i hate the british, i hate you ,i love aaloo keema" ..... so little peter would run off crying and mickey would sit in his designated chair at our dining table and declare his undying love for all things spicy .........

..... when he was seven years old, mickey moved to idaho into an all white neighborhood where nobody had heard of aaloo keema ..... he refused to eat and slowly starved to death ....... they buried him in a potato field next to a cattle ranch ....

lookie here..racist governments persecute pakis for practicing their culture...

Spain arrests 2 Pakistani men for Islamist militant funding
Updated at 0600 PST
MADRID: Two Pakistani men were arrested in Spain on Thursday accused of channelling 1 million euros ($1.40 million) to Islamist militants, Spanish police said.

Anar Muhammad Shan and Preces Mehmood Sandhu used money from drug trafficking to fund radical groups in Spain and abroad, a police statement said.

They were detained in Madrid and Barcelona after a three-year operation by Spanish National Police and the U.S. Federal Bureau of Intelligence.

Shan and Sandhu used the so-called hawala financial transfer system that allows funds to be exchanged with a handshake, piece of paper or on trust and leaves few clues, Spanish police said.

Officer: Terror suspect had religious writings at border check
By HARRY R. WEBER
ATLANTA
A young man charged with aiding terrorists was carrying personal writings that showed his frustration with Islam in Pakistan when he was questioned at an airport after arriving back into the U.S. from overseas in 2005, an officer testified Thursday.

Syed Ahmed also had religious books and pamphlets written in Urdu, Pakistan's national language, when he was stopped at Hartsfield-Jackson Atlanta International Airport because a federal terrorism task force wanted to talk to him, said Melissa Harper, who at the time was a Customs and Border Protection officer.

The testimony came at a hearing at which a lawyer for Ahmed was asking that a judge throw out the evidence obtained from searching his backpack and a suitcase he had. The lawyer also is asking that the statements Ahmed made to Harper and two other federal agents during the search be suppressed.

The full details of the statements Ahmed made and what was contained in his writings were not provided at Thursday's hearing. The significance of the writings also was not explained, though Harper said officers questioning someone in a terrorism probe ask about religious practices because that could be an "indication of mind-set we might want to explore."

Harper acknowledged that Ahmed, a U.S. citizen, was not asked if he wanted an attorney present during the questioning, nor was he told that he could remain silent if he chose. She said it was standard procedure for Ahmed to be questioned because of the computer hit on his name.

There was no immediate ruling from U.S. Magistrate Judge Gerrilyn Brill. Ahmed, with a long beard and dressed in a T-shirt and pants, declined to stand when Brill entered the courtroom. His lawyer, Jack Martin, said Ahmed did not stand because of religious reasons, though he didn't elaborate.

Trial dates for Ahmed and a co-defendant, Ehsanul Sadequee, have not been set. A hearing at which Sadequee's lawyer will ask to have evidence suppressed is scheduled for next week.

Ahmed's airport stop on Aug. 19, 2005 - after which he was given back his belongings and permitted to leave - occurred nearly a year before he and Sadequee were indicted on charges of providing material support to terrorists and related conspiracy counts.

Harper said that the personal writings Ahmed was carrying, which she described as journal entries, involved Ahmed's dissatisfaction with the status of Islam in Pakistan. She said officers made copies of the writings.

vrv, if my loving seculars helps other people in India, Pakistan, or Spain be secular, I will love them (to death, if needed).

Unfortunately, people are what they are, irrespective of I, me, myself. :)

harimou#20:

"The answer is shipping the Muslims back to their home countries."

If they start with Muslims, will others be left alone?

Sri#21:

"Stop the politically correct BS."

If you read carefully, I am saying the same thing. The host societies should stop being politically correct and tell newcomers in clear terms what is expected of them, preferably before they are allowed to come here.

jayp#22:

"Muticulturalism is a western idea, which the majority have allowed the minorities to exploit."

I would like to disagree. India is still, perhaps, the most multicultural society in the world. However, this multiculturalism grew in an organic, holistic way.

kabuliwallah#22:

"The Western legal system should in no way accomodate the religious prejudices and depravities of immigrant societies in civil law."

I agree. The Western legal system, including the concept of fundamental rights, did not anticipate the kind of situations the societies are facing today. But it is not just Muslims. Why should sikh kirpans be exempted from being treated as weapons?

"The host societies should stop being politically correct and tell newcomers in clear terms what is expected of them"

DM, what is your opinion? What should be expected of newcomers?

hamidm2 (various):

I am glad that you moderated your stance as you went along. One need not throw the baby of multiculturalism with the bathwater of jahaalat (idiocy doesn't convey the full sense.

Mickey is not an exception. On your next visit to Toronto, go to the Lahore Tikka House on Gerrard Street and watch the number of happy goras enjoying their kebabs and tikkas. And I am surprised to learn of the number of goras who say that they look forward to seeing the item numbers from Bollywood films on their TV sets on Saturdays.

On my daughter's wedding reception last year, not even the goras went to the dance floor when the waltz music was on; but the goras were the first to go there and start flaying their arms and jumping up and down when the fusion bhangra (which I hate, btw) music started.

kaalchakra:

Nobody wore the mask of a golden deer when entering these borders. But they were told that there was no need to wear even a mask of acceptance as a condition of coming here.