Limits of Multiculturalism

To make things plain for concrete-bound mentalities, I would suggest spelling out some of the practical consequences of the fundamental principles for the benefit of new immigrants. For example:

(1) You cannot claim religious sanction for your insistence on not wearing a helmet while riding a motorcycle, or not handing over a dagger or other weapon when boarding a flight.

(2) In the interest of freedom of expression, you will be permitted to preach your religion or whatever other notions you may believe in, no matter how ill-founded or imbecilic. At the same time, others are at complete liberty to ridicule your religion and cultural practices as primitive and uncivilised, to imprint toilet paper and slippers with pictures of your gods, burn copies of your holy book that they have purchased, or publish cartoons of your Prophet. These expressions are all protected by law.

(3) You cannot command your wife to obey you. If you beat her for whatever reason, the police may be summoned and you can go to jail.

(4) If your eighteen-year old daughter wants to move in with her boyfriend, you can counsel her against doing so, or disinherit her to register her displeasure. But you have no authority to prevent her from consorting with whoever she pleases, no matter how unsuitable you think they might be. Ditto if your adult son wants to move in with *his* boyfriend.

Etc.

Perhaps this can be laid out in the form of a long list of questions, each beginning “Do you understand ….” to be addressed to all prospective immigrants when they arrive, when they apply for permanent residency or citizenship, etc. It could be translated into Arabic, Punjabi, Pushto and other appropriate languages and read out to each new arrival, who should be required to sign or affix his thumprint againt each item as an affirmation of his comprehension and assent. Refusal to assent might be regarded as grounds for immediate deportation.

Listen you fool, peon of the US elite, spongebob squarepant heathen, morally depraved, intellectually bankrupt, peon of the west (did I already say that?), idiot, sham democracy, free marketer, Brittney Spears fcuker.. do you now who you are talking to? I am Masadi..champion of mediocrity, emperor of middling...shehenshah of muddling..I spita ona you..aaack thoo!!

Re: # 87
If ever there was a minority community assimilated it was the jews of germany, in fact they were that well assimilated they were over-represented in business and professions it’s been estimated over 50% of doctors and lawyers in berlin were jewish. They had german culture,names etc, and we all know what happened to them.

Atleast in the UK they've started to sleep together as all ways pakistanis are lagging behind.

Second generation - proportion with a white spouse or partner
Overall
Black African 15.3%
Black Caribbean 38.1%
Chinese 73.5%
Bangladeshi 11.4%
Pakistani 5.2%
Indian 14.2%
Mixed 76.3%

Men
Black African 20.9%
Black Caribbean 47.1%
Chinese 61.3%
Bangladeshi 10.4%
Pakistani 8.8%
Indian 13.0%
Mixed 81.5%

Women
Black African 9.6%
Black Caribbean 29.0%
Chinese 85.6%
Bangladeshi 12.4%
Pakistani 1.5%
Indian 15.3%
Mixed 71.1%
Source
http://acsr.anu.edu.au/APA2004/papers/2E_Muttarak.pdf

Muslims not only generally've a different physical look but more importantly a totally different Weltanschauung -- which is not only merely a different one but a thwarting one challenging the existing values of the western societies achieved by long struggle against different powers --, and striving to replace the system of values of their new countries in the West with a primitive one.

interesting article......

......i don't think the issue is nearly as large as this article seems to be implying........52% of the population of Toronto is immigrant......yet Toronto is the safest large city in North America.......Mississauga, a large suburb of Toronto, is is a hub of the Pakistani community.....it is the safest city in North America!......It also has the sixth highest home rates in Canada.......

........infact, Canada as a whole is a hugely safe and prosperous society.......it is also one of the most multi-cultural.....one could argue that its multi-culturism is the reason of its success........

........one issue of a woman asking to wear a hijab for voting, out of the hundreds of thousands of muslim women in the country, is not much of an issue......one sikh kid asking to wear a kirpan, out of the hundereds of thousands of sikh kids in the country, isn't much of an issue either......

such things neither make nor break a society.......so let's not get carried away......

.......things that would concern me are the bombing of the airliner, which brought violence in one's homeland to canada....as well as the tamil violence, which is now entering into canada......

no need to be scared of, or scaring others about a veil or a sikh turban.......

"(1) You cannot claim religious sanction for your insistence on not wearing a helmet while riding a motorcycle, or not handing over a dagger or other weapon when boarding a flight."

I disagree. Seatbelts and helmets should be completly voluntary. Insurance companies can refuse to provide anything other than Liability coverage though.

"
(3) You cannot command your wife to obey you. If you beat her for whatever reason, the police may be summoned and you can go to jail."

The operative word being CAN. And yelling at your wife should not be construed as "abuse". And the above rule does not apply if you have the misfotune of having a Saminasha type liberal feminist as your wife.

Re: # 20

harimau

You are right. Talking of multiculturalism with reference to un-cultured (Taalibaani) Muslims is sheer non-sense. How can the people of the type who are the problem for the Muslim societies even more than the world at large be accommodated in the cultured societies of the global village in the name of multiculturalism? It is not a culture but a murderous cult which is defaming the very name of Islam. It is this fad of multiculturalism which has turned the free society of England a centre for terrorism in the name of Islam.

Ref hamidm2 #38

[..... i still remember the first time i went to my ancestral village i had to squat in the fields to relieve myself ...... the wheat, or what passes for wheat in the potohar, had just been harvested and the darn stalks were sticking six inches above the ground so that i had to stick my ass up in the air ......]

Now, if only you had been praying five times a day as Prophet Mohammad instructed the Followers of The True Faith to do, holding your ass 6-8 inches above the ground would have been no problem for you at all.

Urstruly is likely to add this as yet another glorious foresight of Prophet Mohammad, not given to mere mortals or lesser prophets!

Ref AlephNull #97

[To make things plain for concrete-bound mentalities, I would suggest spelling out some of the practical consequences of the fundamental principles for the benefit of new immigrants. For example:

(1) You cannot claim religious sanction for your insistence on not wearing a helmet while riding a motorcycle, or not handing over a dagger or other weapon when boarding a flight.

(2) In the interest of freedom of expression, you will be permitted to preach your religion or whatever other notions you may believe in, no matter how ill-founded or imbecilic. At the same time, others are at complete liberty to ridicule your religion and cultural practices as primitive and uncivilised, to imprint toilet paper and slippers with pictures of your gods, burn copies of your holy book that they have purchased, or publish cartoons of your Prophet. These expressions are all protected by law.

(3) You cannot command your wife to obey you. If you beat her for whatever reason, the police may be summoned and you can go to jail.

(4) If your eighteen-year old daughter wants to move in with her boyfriend, you can counsel her against doing so, or disinherit her to register her displeasure. But you have no authority to prevent her from consorting with whoever she pleases, no matter how unsuitable you think they might be. Ditto if your adult son wants to move in with *his* boyfriend.

Etc.

Perhaps this can be laid out in the form of a long list of questions, each beginning “Do you understand ….” to be addressed to all prospective immigrants when they arrive, when they apply for permanent residency or citizenship, etc.]

I believe the Netherlands, after its run-in with Muslim immigrants/citizens, is making it mandatory for applicants for immigration to view videos/photos of pornography, men holding hands and kissing each other in public places, etc., and asks them if they find these things offensive, so that the potential immigrants are aware of what kind of depraved society they are trying to become part of.

I think we need to suggest to the Netherlands government that the physiological reactions of Muslim males (and particularly, those of the mullahs) to photos of homo-erotic male pictures be measured. After all, it is well-known that most Muslim boys are ass-raped by the mullahs.

#98 chaltahai: That was really funny. Masadi wants you to explain the joke to him also.

Re: # 29 He does not live in India, borilvi express is a Pakistani.
I also can't agree with the premise of that argument.. Sadna and you both think otherwise, but if multiculturalism has its limits in western states, it also does so in India. India is a multicultural country, and I think all said and done, we have coped amazingly well.

Dost-Mittar writes [.....the centre-stage was taken by the decision by the Election Commission of Canada regarding the eligibility of a fully-veiled woman to caste her vote without showing her face for the purpose of identification. The Election Commission issued a directive saying that such women should be allowed to caste their vote without lifting their veil as long as they carried two pieces of identification with them to prove their authenticity. The Prime Minister seemed outraged and asked the Election Commissioner to change his directive and threatened to pass legislation in the Parliament if the Commission refused to do so. The Election Commissioner, to his credit, refused to buckle under the political pressure and stuck to his decision.]

The Election Commissioner of Canada is an idiot.

If he had half the brains of a camel, he would have told women in burqas who refuse to show their faces that in Islam women don't have the right to vote and so they should just go back home and not try to vote in elections. And ordered a punishment of 40 lashes for attempting to contravene the Koran.

That would have sent the correct message to the idiotic Muslimas who think that Arab costumes and customs must be followed worldwide.

The Prime Minister was correct.

You are wrong to approvingly quote the actions of the Election Commissioner.

"We have coped amazingly well."

Let's see, assuming there was ever an India.

- One third of the country lost.
- Millions and millions put to the sword.
- Only AB (Allah and Bhagwan) know how many wars fought with what you may consider former India.
- Constant state of undeclared war.
- Remaining multicultural population feeling powerless, bitter, and full of blame for others.
- Bombs going off at regular intervals to celebrate mankind's brotherhod (I propose such love be confined to Calcutta)
- No public festival can be organized, no puja performed, without more security being arranged than should be needed to protect God Himself. (I propose the cost of all such increased security arrangement be recovered from Bengalis).
- North-East waiting to explode against 'injustice' 'oppression' and 'lack of love.' (When much greater violence and inevitable demand for secession comes, Bengalis must not be given refuge in the rest of India.)

Yes, amazingly, we have done well.

kaalchakra#77:

"BUT it does so ONLY in societies that are based, almost entirely, structurally, morally, intellectually, on the notion on individualism, indivdidual rights, respect for the individual etc. As if the frikking individual were some kind of a little god."

I do agree that the anglo-saxon societies tend to emphasize individual over group rights whereas on the subcontinent, family takes precedence over the individuals and the group (biradari, caste, etc.) takes precedence over the family. I think that the French have it just about the right proportion between the rights of individual and that of the society, with their concept of social contract.

mohar11:

"Bullsh!t.... "Norms of the house" is clear to everybody else, most other groups of people are thriving in it... "

Not really! they are clear to Alephnull but not to Khurram; the Dutch just found this out, didn't they?