Democracy, not terror, is the engine of political Islam

Re: # 159

[It is that certitude that appeals to ordinary people struggling with day to day life. After all, every one likes to believe that there is an all powerful dadddy (aka God) looking after your interests.]

Is that what bothers you the most? The absoluteness of the theology of Islam, or the killings that is permeated in its name?

Again, what is reprehensible with today's muslims? The killings that is conducted in the name of Islam, or the salemenship and marketing of this theology?

Re:Kaal
Kaal, my basic point is very simple. Lets assume Allah exists and actually sent a message to us via Prophet Muhammad. If Allah is so powerful and monotheistic, why doesnt he simply force everyone to adopt the message and be done with it? After all, he is omnipotent, right? Who the hell are zeemax or naqsh or zahid and why do they need to convince me? Why cant God just do his own job and gather everyone under him within Islam?

The only possibilities are that Allah doesnt care or Allah doesnt exist. In either case, it negates the so called "powerful" message that you are in awe of. Look, I have nothing against anyone using religion as their personal mental crutch. We all hate uncertainty and misfortune. If praying to a God gives us strength to carry on, nothing wrong with it. The problem is that as compared to other religions, Islam almost tries to guarantee each and every thing. It is that certitude that appeals to ordinary people struggling with day to day life. After all, every one likes to believe that there is an all powerful dadddy (aka God) looking after your interests.

Lets do a thought experiment. Assume that medical science makes advances so that our lifespans are extended to several centuries and we remain healthy throughout. Also assume that there is a good economy and everyone has a good standard of living. How many people would still believe in Islam or any other religion with as much fervor as they do today? When you dont need a daddy to look after you, do you care about his "message" any longer?

Re: # 153 raw
[...God never stops by to help me out a bit...]

God is busy building a weed-whacker... the islamists like zhaid_e_worthless have become a big drag on the functioning of this planet - god would have to do something... :)

zhaid_e_bedouin

May be you islmists are the weed and everybody else, pagans included, are the wheat... I am sure God in his infinite wisdom knows you islamists worthless burden on the planet... :)... that's the reason god has invented daisy-cutters...

Kaal

That's fine with me...

but it's not about Ranjit, it's about you... you still have not come out strongly against islamic hate speech, islamic hate against yourself and your kind... what gives?... are you like gandhi? are you willing to sacrifice your own at the altar of the bedouin god?...

Khuda ke banday to hain hazaroN,
banooN main phirtay hain maray maray

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raw, the great poet and philosopher that Iqbal obviously was, he might be referring to Ram here.

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shishapa, good to see you either gave up, or accepted it as it is.

I am trying to figure out whether ranjit was seeking/hoping to convince anyone that none of all this might actually be true, and if so, who that target audience amenable to his way of thinking might be.

For that purpose God has created your colleagues!

Yea a lot of mumbo-jumbo. I am working on an optimization problem for work. God never stops by to help me out a bit.

Raw_Dust boss,

Thanks, too complex, I better go back to work on my
feature, kayamat ka din paas aa raha hai, end of the year.

I am going to make an attempt here it's just my take not a bonafide islami take, let's see:

I do not get this. What is the purpose of this exercise?

Answer:
Exercise was done to have the notion of Love in the divine realm and to love is a Godly attribute. Barelvi school believes, the entire exercise was undertaken by God for his Love of the last prophet Mohammad: the most beloved of divine entity ever existed in human form (getting very Jesus here).

In an offhand way, Allama Iqbal tried to take it on this theme like:

Khuda ke banday to hain hazaroN, banooN main phirtay hain maray maray
main banda banoonga uska, jissay Khuda ke bandoan se pyar hoga

actually, Iqbal didn't know how prophetic this shair was - if you take the stress in banooN from 'oo' to 'n' as in Bannu, NWFP. It gets very current.

What was god doing before creating this thing, what is
he/she/it going to do after this thing?

That's an open question.

Is this a one time thing? If so, why?
It might not be one time thing because God exists outside of Time. So, the question is invalid.

Does not god have anything else to do,
Hyperlinked to Sura-e-Ikhlaas here. God is supposedly a mish-mash of many attributes (conflicting at times). In Sura-e-Ikhlaas he reveals his ultimate Indifference to anyone and everyone. God isn't supposed to do anything. He is, imo, first and foremost Indifferent. Divine Indifference is the charge that creates the flux of Fear of God in a muslim.

throwing some
people/souls in hell and some in heaven?

God's given the Devil a challenge to ward off His earthly creations from the Truth(Islam). Devil's gave his word on that one. Poor mortals are like chess pieces in this game between God and Devil. The only difference being the chess game's each and every move is already known by one of the player and both player knows who is going to lose in the end.

Dear shishapa,

Not only this humble person but a spate of theologians have been trying their utmost to decode what's written in God's plan. No one unfortunately knows all details as they've not been revealed to us. But the separation of the weed from the wheat and pagan from the believer is bound to happen. The life of the believer is going to be enviable but not of the pagan.

In other words, god ko kuch kaamdhanda nahi hai kya
siway watching some souls buring in hell and
some souls frolicking in heaven admiring god?
Is this the maksad of god's existence?

Re: # 147

Zahidji,

That is fine. But my question was, why do all of this?
What is the purpose, why now?
What was God doing before starting all of this, and
what is he going to do after it all ends i.e.
separation of weed and wheat happens.

Re: # 146

Dear shishapa,

you could see this in the context of natural selection. We might call this predestination a divine selection. Not everyone bears the right genes -- in theological terms -- resulting in godly or ungodly behavior and hence there's to be a filtering of the weed from the wheat. The weed has to be separated because it doesn't belong to the wheat. So do the pagans with the believers

Re: # 139

I do not get this. What is the purpose of this exercise?
What was god doing before creating this thing, what is
he/she/it going to do after this thing?
Is this a one time thing? If so, why?
Does not god have anything else to do, throwing some
people/souls in hell and some in heaven?

Ajeet, Muslims do not kill others just because others do not believe in 'their delusions.' Islam has a proper methodology for dealing with unbelievers.

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mohar11, it might be best if we could learn from ranjit what the puprose of that post was, and other than live-and-let-live - let's celebreate diwali and id - what else he intended to convey.